Operation Sindoor and Aftermath (28 Viewers)

[daya]

We need a completely new generation of Hindu leaders to take bold decisions.

Like it or not, Modi's generation of Hindus don't have it in them to be aggressive. Their generation was systematically neutered and all aggressiveness was stamped out.

I was reading stuff about 2002 and boy oh boy, I'll never ever praise Atal Bihari Vajpayee again.

I abuse Modi routinely for being a moderate. But, Atal would make Modi look like an extremist.

Atal -------- Modi --------- Yogi ---------- ????????


We are seeing a steady increase in aggressiveness. It'll take a new generation of Hindus to see Pakis for what they are i.e subhuman savages who must be destroyed.

Himanta will be a good choice. He is much bold and having grip over Babus which is much required... Himanta seems much more capable and bold leader.

 

[asaada]

A very hot take. But I think joining their gang is basically being their vassal. And what they want us to do is kiss their ass just like Pakistan. If that is what you want us to do as well, there is a lot to lose in that way. Otherwise our policymakers would have picked that option by now. They are not idiots, they know the merits and demerits of these options and have picked what is the best at the particular point in time.

You know what some might say let us just give our airbases to US just like Pakistan. And be like those Japanese. Heck lets give Andaman to the US on 99 year lease. They will surely love us. The reason we didn't join their Asian NATO is because of such kinds of demands. We have no problem with cooperating them with Quads but they just want us to be like Pakistan kissing their ass. And if refusing to be bitch of United States is being a fence shitter so be it. And if there are negative consequences to refusing to be one, then we will manage it like how we did before. But one has to remember there are negative consequences to being one as well, with no guarantee of protection. All of that is already has been assessed by our policymakers. Because they have dealt with these kinds of things multiple times.

@Azaad @ezsasa What's your opinion on this?

I’d echo Tony Soprano: "It's good to be in something from the ground floor. I came too late for that, I know. But lately I'm getting the feeling that I came in at the end. The best is over."

It would’ve been one thing if India had become a U.S. vassal back in the 1950s. Today’s reality is different. The Americans don’t want another China they won’t let us grow just by being their good boys. Their plan seems to keep us in check, not weak enough to fold completely against the Chinese, but not strong enough to deter them on our own. You could say they want us as a new Ukraine propped up just enough to counter China, but never truly independent.

 

[redpanda]

We need a completely new generation of Hindu leaders to take bold decisions.

Like it or not, Modi's generation of Hindus don't have it in them to be aggressive. Their generation was systematically neutered and all aggressiveness was stamped out.

I was reading stuff about 2002 and boy oh boy, I'll never ever praise Atal Bihari Vajpayee again.

I abuse Modi routinely for being a moderate. But, Atal would make Modi look like an extremist.

Atal -------- Modi --------- Yogi ---------- ????????


We are seeing a steady increase in aggressiveness. It'll take a new generation of Hindus to see Pakis for what they are i.e subhuman savages who must be destroyed.

Tbh I have some dislike about Atal ji. Basically his soft corner for Pakistan & the rainbowgang/oppositions. But we have to consider his circumstances. He wasn't heading a mega majority party. I mean he also gave full support to nuclear programme. And he is the one who started our BMD programme after realising that we have to call out the nuclear bluff of Pakistan after Kargil. The reason he forced our forces to not march into Pakistan during Kargil was simple we had nothing to defend against their nukes. And it made sense to think, "let's start a counter measure programme, maybe a future leader will capitalise on it.".

 

[pythonlover]

Interesting take. Perhaps it was intentional as to flag what is our red line.

However fact to the matter is now Trump is now on Pakistani gang. Also to note, this is not just because of Asim Munir ass kissing, but also that USA is now losing patience with our fence-sitting attitude.

By 2014, America was big on taking India on their sides. Starting from defence sales like C-130J, C-17s, Chinooks and Apaches. Pitching for most advanced version of F-16s in MMRCA, and then unconditionally supporting us on standoffs versus China, both in 2017 and 2020.

Its my opinion that we should have gone to USA gang.

But now that carrot isn't working on us, we will gonna get the stick soon.

I doubt it was intentional. I think the simple explanation is the correct one, Trump's incompetence. I mean, think about it, how many established norms and precedents has he violated? From top of my head, I can list :

1. Publicly threatening to annex an ally's territory (Greenland).
2. Publicly abusing a head of state (Trudeau).
3. Called a close ally 51st state of US.
4. Had public spat during a press conference with a sitting head of state (Zelensky).
5. His foundation / company launched a phone while his administration threatened to impose tariffs on phone imports => clear conflict of interest.
6. Unparliamentary and informal languages during press conferences and in tweets.
7. A sitting US president behaved as live news reporter, tweeting about everything during Israel-Iran conflict.

The list goes on and on. The dude has so many conflict of interests that it would cause a public scandal in any semi-decent democracy. This dude does not understand international relations. He completely sees it as transactional. I mean the deep state must have spent billions and years to build influence and covert operations through USAID. Why would any competent president of the most powerful country in the world would want to close it and see it as waste of money? It would be a dream for any competent powerful nation to have an organisation and money like USAID to meddle in affairs of other states. Trump sees it as waste of money because he doesn't see any immediate material gain from it.

Also I think US would still support us against China, as it did in 2017 and 2020. The US has never supported us and mostly has been neutral in our conflict with Pakis. At max they have condemned terrorism, but have they ever directly called out the Paki state?

Though we have some role, the blame of not going in the US camp also does not completely lie on us. They have a good role in keeping us away from them. They lecture us on our internal matters (farm protest, USCIRF, CAA, Nijjer, etc etc), never condemn Pakis and always keep neutral stance, never called Pakis out on terrorism. OTOH, Russians may not be as powerful as US, they still don't lecture us and still cooperate with us on critical defence technologies, even though they extract from us. Eg: INS Chakra, BrahMos, nuclear cooperation etc etc. When has the US shared any technology in a similar way and to that level with us? I don't remember anything. I only remeber weapon sales, not cooperation. US doesn't trust us and has never shown that they can be relied upon. They want us to be a vassal against China and buyer of their weapons, not a partner. A nation with aspirations of becoming a major power cannot be a vassal and the US doesn't want a partner.

Also I think we are overestimating recent Trump & Munir meeting and Paki buttering of US. I think we should strictly see this through Iran lense. Other than being a mecenary, there is nothing Paki land can offer. I don't think US is on Paki gang. It is just Trump's ego aligned with Paki narrative and then Iran came at the same time. There is nothing more than that, other than Trump's stupidity and short sightedness.

 

[shade2]

Interesting take. Perhaps it was intentional as to flag what is our red line.

However fact to the matter is now Trump is now on Pakistani gang. Also to note, this is not just because of Asim Munir ass kissing, but also that USA is now losing patience with our fence-sitting attitude.

By 2014, America was big on taking India on their sides. Starting from defence sales like C-130J, C-17s, Chinooks and Apaches. Pitching for most advanced version of F-16s in MMRCA, and then unconditionally supporting us on standoffs versus China, both in 2017 and 2020.

Its my opinion that we should have gone to USA gang.

But now that carrot isn't working on us, we will gonna get the stick soon.

USA gang means vassaldom, Pakistan is already in USA gang this way,
so are Greece and Turkey.
And so is Ukraine
You see the Ukrainians enjoying the benefits of that

And they have been very miserly with the carrots but generous with the sticks.

I disagree, we’ve been on the receiving end of the stick for quite a while. From CAATSA sanctions to the orchestrated protests like the farmers protest, CAB, NRC, and Shaheen Bagh, the U.S. has consistently pressured India.

During Trump's first term, tariff accusations were rampant, and the Biden administration has been openly hostile. The Nijjar fiasco and allegations of India conducting extrajudicial assassinations on American and Canadian soil like the CC1 arrest and the whole false flag operation about Pannun's death. The U.S. has continued arming Pakistan, bailing them out through IMF loans and Arab state financial interventions, while simultaneously fueling the Khalistani insurgency both in India and globally.

They’ve defamed India through biased indices like Freedom House, religious tolerance, democracy, and hunger rankings. Their social media platforms amplify anti-India content, dehumanizing Indians. Time and again, they’ve gone to great lengths to antagonize the Modi government. In my view, their actions show a clear pattern of hostility over the years.

We sit on the fence because we know their plans for us, post-maidan Ukraine was only a confirmation.

 

[redpanda]

USA gang means vassaldom, Pakistan is already in USA gang this way,
so are Greece and Turkey.
And so is Ukraine
You see the Ukrainians enjoying the benefits of that

And they have been very miserly with the carrots but generous with the sticks.




We sit on the fence because we know their plans for us, post-maidan Ukraine was only a confirmation.

Lmao Modi & BJP wanted us to be an US ally for a long time, all of us can check old news articles from Congress era. There is a reason he gave up on that idea after his initial tries. Heck BJP as whole wanted us to be an US ally and was against NAM. But they changed their stance in their successive terms for a reason. They realised the problem with being an US ally. It wasn't easy to be an US ally, demands were too much. That is why you can see sticks being applied since 2019 with Delhi riot, farmer protests, etc. We are already under their stick since 2019. (tbh one can argue even before that.)

 

[shade2]

Lmao Modi & BJP wanted us to be an US ally for a long time, all of us can check old news articles from Congress era. There is a reason he gave up on that idea after his initial tries. Heck BJP as whole wanted us to be an US ally and was against NAM. But they changed their stance in their successive terms for a reason. They realised the problem with being an US ally. It wasn't easy to be an US ally, demands were too much. That is why you can see sticks being applied since 2019 with Delhi riot, farmer protests, etc. We are already under their stick since 2019. (tbh one can argue even before that.)

Chong wants certain parts of our land.
US wants remote control of all our countries' affairs, foreign and domestic

US also wants us to get into war with the Chongs just like Russia is stuck in the Ukranian quagmire, this will dash their plan of a Taiwan anschluss since they will be stuck in the same trap that Putin is.

Which is leader's chair is in danger if he withdraws from a war he started against an adversary which was shown as comically weak.

Knives will be out for Xi if he gets into a war with us and gets out, so he will continue, and we who will be sold to the US masta will also be forced to stay in such a war, destroying our future at the commands of Uncle Sam.

 

[snakeeyes07]

MRSAM wreckage found in Pakpattan area (40-50km from IB)

View: https://x.com/TheLegateIN/status/1938613422293401714

 

[pixxel]

MRSAM wreckage found in Pakpattan area (40-50km from IB)

View: https://x.com/TheLegateIN/status/1938613422293401714

The fact that most interceptions happened 40 to 50 kilometers from the International Border (IB) explains a lot. During the recent escalation, Pakistan fired multiple missiles and air-to-ground munitions at us, but thankfully, none managed to breach our air defense shield. It’s very likely that many of these interceptions took place on the Pakistani side of the border, which is why we haven’t seen many visuals or videos of the missile interceptions. Our air defense systems performed even better than expected, effectively neutralizing the threats before they could cause any damage.

This shows just how capable and prepared our air defense network is, and why we didn’t see much evidence of incoming threats reaching Indian territory.

 

[Sanglamorre]

The fact that most interceptions happened 40 to 50 kilometers from the International Border (IB) explains a lot. During the recent escalation, Pakistan fired multiple missiles and air-to-ground munitions at us, but thankfully, none managed to breach our air defense shield. It’s very likely that many of these interceptions took place on the Pakistani side of the border, which is why we haven’t seen many visuals or videos of the missile interceptions. Our air defense systems performed even better than expected, effectively neutralizing the threats before they could cause any damage.

This shows just how capable and prepared our air defense network is, and why we didn’t see much evidence of incoming threats reaching Indian territory.

This is basically <insert game like warthunder> players shooting their long range as soon as the radar detects enemies

 

[Azaad]

A very hot take. But I think joining their gang is basically being their vassal. And what they want us to do is kiss their ass just like Pakistan. If that is what you want us to do as well, there is a lot to lose in that way. Otherwise our policymakers would have picked that option by now. They are not idiots, they know the merits and demerits of these options and have picked what is the best at the particular point in time.

You know what some might say let us just give our airbases to US just like Pakistan. And be like those Japanese. Heck lets give Andaman to the US on 99 year lease. They will surely love us. The reason we didn't join their Asian NATO is because of such kinds of demands. We have no problem with cooperating them with Quads but they just want us to be like Pakistan kissing their ass. And if refusing to be bitch of United States is being a fence shitter so be it. And if there are negative consequences to refusing to be one, then we will manage it like how we did before. But one has to remember there are negative consequences to being one as well, with no guarantee of protection. All of that is already has been assessed by our policymakers. Because they have dealt with these kinds of things multiple times.

@Azaad @ezsasa What's your opinion on this?

US armed forces already use the A&N Islands as an aviation logistics hub , for ship repairs , refuelling , etc .

Google Search

Moreover we've signed up with USN to for ship repairs overhauling etc which'd come in handy in peace & war time.

So we aren't fence sitting nor have we formally joined an alliance but we're doing things our own way.

My guess is the US & rest of the Quad including Taiwan want us to enter into an alliance with a view to entrap us much like they did Ukraine provoking Russia into a war .

We're wary of both the Chinese & the US for obvious reasons & refused to join such an alliance. However I believe that won't prevent China from attacking us.

I don't envy this administration . There are no easy choices here. Where I think this administration deserves more than its share of brickbats is for their cavalier attitude to defence.

 

[shade2]

US armed forces already use the A&N Islands as an aviation logistics hub , for ship repairs , refuelling , etc .

Google Search

Moreover we've signed up with USN to for ship repairs overhauling etc which'd come in handy in peace & war time.

So we aren't fence sitting nor have we formally joined an alliance but we're doing things our own way.

My guess is the US & rest of the Quad including Taiwan want us to enter into an alliance with a view to entrap us much like they did Ukraine provoking Russia into a war .

We're wary of both the Chinese & the US for obvious reasons & refused to join such an alliance. However I believe that won't prevent China from attacking us.

I don't envy this administration . There are no easy choices here. Where I think this administration deserves more than its share of brickbats is for their cavalier attitude to defence.

What would stop them from attacking us if we had a strong military build up of our own to establish deterrence, i.e make it very costly for them to attack us.

Like they made it for the US to intervene in Taiwan anschluss.

Alas,Govt penny pinching in the wrong areas