Operation Sindoor and Aftermath (72 Viewers)

[Ajatshatru]

forget about other people, are you as an individual saying you will gamble with the lives of crores of people living in Indian sub-continent for decades based on binary choice backed by an assumption?

do you not live here in India?

India’s political and military leadership dismisses Pakistan’s claims of nuclear deterrence, as they doubt Pakistan’s actual ability to launch a nuclear weapon against India. So far, Pakistan has never mobilized its nuclear weapons—and if it does, India is prepared to strike those assets immediately. While nuclear weapons stored inside bunkers are relatively safe, they are not entirely secure, as bunker-busting munitions can still destroy them. This is similar to why Ukraine surrendered its nuclear weapons—because it understood that, against a far superior Russian conventional military, its nuclear arsenal would be a sitting duck.

 

[shade2]

this disabling of nuke thing is rhetorical as of now, it's that tom cooper fellow who inserted this into the discourse, and public as usual are using their imagination based on inherent prejudice to extrapolate.

only thing we know for a fact is that nur khan base got hit, everything else is speculative.

folks here might be taking nuclear thresholds lightly, but the world takes nuclear weapon related dynamics very seriously. and pakis have a history of using nooclear blackmail.

does this answer your question?

The Leaderji in post Op Sindoor public utterances openly says that "Pakistan's nuclear blackmail won't work anymore"

Govt has called their bluff.

Goras will always have their panties in a bunch over various nightmare scenarios about Paki nooks, mostly made up by Paki dalals onlee

 

[shade2]

Russians can do better what Americans do, and that too at a cheaper cost.

Doubt that but atleast Russians don't play games around engine supplies as geopolitical leverage.

Seriously during Op Sindoor it was only Su30s that did the heavy lifting.

Rafales vanished after the first day lobbing scalp and hammer

 

[ezsasa]

If this bothered us so much, why did we not prevent porkis from obtaining nukular weapons? Look what Israelis are doing to Iran - openly taking out their nookular scientists. Did our RAW not have enough intelligence that Porkis will use atomi takat threshold to sponsor terrorism in J&K?
Modi 3.0 has a duty to explain how genocide of Hindus were allowed in their own land. If they do not, crores of Hindus are going to get angry. The results are not going to please Bhajipao. There are Hindu orgs that I know of that are not pleased with Modi 3.0’s behavior. If something happens during Amarnath Yatra then leader ji and NDA are going to be in big trouble. Ji is underestimating the anger Hindus have. It is staying below ground as we all trust ji still. But that cannot last forever.

i don't care about, it's between you and your imagination.

I live in several Indian cities and we have significant assets there. The thing is we have to call their nuclear bluff. If we have decided that they are not bluffing and actually have the balls to fire a nuclear warhead, then we should immediately do everything we can to neutralize that threat including announcing that we will nuke China. We are a SSBN power - the only one outside of P5. And no one can prevent us from preventing nuking terroristan supporters - Türkiye and China. Make it 100% clear to them. I would like to see how Porkis play their cards now.

i am reading this as, you have a foot outside of India as well, good for you.

you have been interacting with me for years now, you must have realised i belong to realism school of thought, beyond a point i don't get into speculations.

if it is wargaming you want to do, do it. but i would advice, have a grip on ground reality as well. without terms of reference and taking constraints into account, anything can be imagined, there is no limit.

 

[ezsasa]

The Leaderji in post Op Sindoor public utterances openly says that "Pakistan's nuclear blackmail won't work anymore"

Govt has called their bluff.

Goras will always have their panties in a bunch over various nightmare scenarios about Paki nooks, mostly made up by Paki dalals onlee

yup, had written this last month. even after a month, i am presuming my points hold true.

at some point all these "would have" "could have" theoretical assumptions have to consciously fall back on reality checks for confirmation. reality check here is what has been stated and executed by the actual main players in the game, in this case the gormint and security forces. they checked almost every box, that security focussed intelligentsia of the country have been debating on.

we need to have clarity on what has been achieved:

- demonstrate that terrorism is the primary issue between India and pakistan.
- combat proven tag to many of the defence equipment
- raise the cost of an misadventure i.e deterrence
- demonstrate restraint factored into the operational planning
- find space for conventional deterrence, as a response to sub-conventional warfare imposed by paki army.
- find space for conventional retaliation under nuclear overhang.
- call out nuclear bluff
- let pakis know, pakjabi heartland is no longer out of bounds
- there is space for both kinetic and non-kinetic responses.
- remind pakis of their lack of strategic depth .
- erase the distinction between jihadis and their state sponsors.


if folks want to apply their mind, and add more chapters to the playbook, can use the above mentioned points as the new baseline and build on it. we also have to be careful not to over read the outcomes, beyond a point so much so that it blurs the lines between hallucinations and reality.

 

[Viper316]

Are these unknown flights fielded as decoys to divert attention. Based on the speed and low fly pass it tries to imitate a training sortie. But why would any airforce deploy training sorties close to LoC and IB.

 

[snakeeyes07]

Are these unknown flights fielded as decoys to divert attention. Based on the speed and low fly pass it tries to imitate a training sortie. But why would any airforce deploy training sorties close to LoC and IB. View attachment 41590

Around 130 knots is too slow for a fighter.

Could be Akıncı? Too fast for tb2 or helicopters.

This could be just one single platform, testing spoofing or having multiple squawks.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

i don't care about, it's between you and your imagination.



i am reading this as, you have a foot outside of India as well, good for you.

you have been interacting with me for years now, you must have realised i belong to realism school of thought, beyond a point i don't get into speculations.

if it is wargaming you want to do, do it. but i would advice, have a grip on ground reality as well. without terms of reference and taking constraints into account, anything can be imagined, there is no limit.

Yes. We have assets outside India too. Everyone I know has assets in Dubai and Singapore etc as no business family fully trusts the Indian babus yet especially due to tax reasons and arbitrary rules. Same reason all Indian millionaires have outside residencies. Things have gotten a lot better under BJP though.
I am going to say one thing and leave it at that. Go talk to the Shankaracharya Mutt and ask what the acharyas think about Modi 3.0’s response to the Hindu genocide. You will get your answer as to what the undercurrent is. Realism is defined by what the majority wants. Modi 3.0 needs to better start understanding the reality. We all saw what happened to BJP in UP when RSS pulled out its support. The BJP president’s election is getting delayed because of this very same issue. Modi 3.0 and RSS are at odds with a number of things concerning Hindus. I can tell you RSS is not at all happy with what happened in Pahalgam. If something happens during Amarnath Yatra, there will be real impacts for leaderji.

 

[ezsasa]

Yes. We have assets outside India too. Everyone I know has assets in Dubai and Singapore etc as no business family fully trusts the Indian babus yet especially due to tax reasons and arbitrary rules. Same reason all Indian millionaires have outside residencies. Things have gotten a lot better under BJP though.
I am going to say one thing and leave it at that. Go talk to the Shankaracharya Mutt and ask what the acharyas think about Modi 3.0’s response to the Hindu genocide. You will get your answer as to what the undercurrent is. Realism is defined by what the majority wants. Modi 3.0 needs to better start understanding the reality. We all saw what happened to BJP in UP when RSS pulled out its support. The BJP president’s election is getting delayed because of this very same issue. Modi 3.0 and RSS are at odds with a number of things concerning Hindus. I can tell you RSS is not at all happy with what happened in Pahalgam. If something happens during Amarnath Yatra, there will be real impacts for leaderji.

and my observation is that, any topic once you include electoral politics factors, quality of discussion on that topic goes down. that's how news media wallahs have deliberately effed with thought process of generations of Indians, they have managed to link every thing to electoral politics.

if you want to make sense of any India related topic, do not bring in electoral politics unless there is absolutely essential to the topic of discussion. if you do bring electoral politics into the mix, then be mentally prepared to be frustrated, then there will be no resolution to your discussion.

 

[Psacha123]

Seeing too many such things getting exposed nowadays. While it is good it is happening, the 0.5 front is quickly becoming a full fledged front if not already. This is the bigger than any external threat.

I would be more than happy if we show restraint against external threats for now as long as we use those energies to CLEAN UP THE HOUSE FIRST!


View: https://x.com/meghupdates/status/1939553919237345326?s=46


View: https://x.com/bjpharshvardhan/status/1939505351721922877?s=46

 

[Psacha123]

This is on Jhelum?
Looks like IWT will be used as a ticking time bomb to keep provoking them and then deal a devastating blow this time when they act.


View: https://x.com/meghupdates/status/1939602580323348627?s=46

 

[Knowitall]

Govt facing too much heat after the recent revelations of the defence attache in the seminar.

This also shows how little coordination exists between various departments in the govt. First the statements by army chief and now the statements of the defence attache.

Both of them have now caught the govt off balance and it seems there is an ongoing tussle going on between the military and the MEA and the govt is the one caught in between.

This is the issue with not committing to the fullest. They made the same error during balakot and now with OP sindoor.

Seems the military has completely deflected the entire issue at the govt and their statement directly contradicts PMO’s early statement of free hand given to forces.

That on top of the sudden ceasefire with no concessions has left a bad taste all around with regards to the whole operation. The ceasfire was a mistake and the sanctions part is losing its sheen among people.


View: https://x.com/shivaroor/status/1939312176487186443?s=46

 

[superpower]

Govt facing too much heat after the recent revelations of the defence attache in the seminar.

This also shows how little coordination exists between various departments in the govt. First the statements by army chief and now the statements of the defence attache.

Both if them have now caught the govt off balance and it seems there is an ongoing tussle going on between the military and the MEA and the govt is the one caught in between.

This is the issue with not committing to the fullest. They made the same error during balakot and now with OP sindoor.

Seems the military has completely deflected the entire issue at the govt and their statement directly contradicts PMO’s early statement of free hand given to forces.

That on top of the sudden ceasefire with no concessions has left a bad taste all around with regards to the whole operation.


View: https://x.com/shivaroor/status/1939312176487186443?s=46

Fuck off the planes..infact our all Pilots are safe....if something is downed its a part and parcel of war but Honestly Guys is baar jo mazaa Pakistan ki gaand maarke aaya voh swarg main bhi nahi milega ...Jai Hind..

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Govt facing too much heat after the recent revelations of the defence attache in the seminar.

This also shows how little coordination exists between various departments in the govt. First the statements by army chief and now the statements of the defence attache.

Both if them have now caught the govt off balance and it seems there is an ongoing tussle going on between the military and the MEA and the govt is the one caught in between.

This is the issue with not committing to the fullest. They made the same error during balakot and now with OP sindoor.

Seems the military has completely deflected the entire issue at the govt and their statement directly contradicts PMO’s early statement of free hand given to forces.

That on top of the sudden ceasefire with no concessions has left a bad taste all around with regards to the whole operation.


View: https://x.com/shivaroor/status/1939312176487186443?s=46

Absolutely. It looks like the military is not happy with its hands being tied by the gormint. That is why they voice their opinions overseas in neutral forums and not within India. The IAF chief has been openly frustrated with HAL. I think these observations are a criticism of the stupid ideologies that MEA and defense babus hold on to. I think it is a step in the right direction that the gormint is asking the military with one eye shut and one arm tied behind. The gormint needs to come clean on why unnecessary RoEs were ordered. They need to explain why Pakodastan Army was seen as separate from the terrorists. And it took Op Sindoor to finally realize that they are all the same.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Fuck off the planes..infact our all Pilots are safe....if something is downed its a part and parcel of war but Honestly Guys is baar jo mazaa Pakistan ki gaand maarke aaya voh swarg main bhi nahi milega ...Jai Hind..

No one cares about the loss of fighters but why they were lost. The CDS said the same thing: it is more important to analyze why they were lost - clearly implying that the gormint had held the military back. And this is what is worrisome especially after saying that we are giving the military a free hand. It brings down the credibility of leader ji.

 

[shade2]

Both of them have now caught the govt off balance and it seems there is an ongoing tussle going on between the military and the MEA and the govt is the one caught in between.

Modi Govt is intended target.

If IFS baboo-mantri Lazer Eyes has foreign settled spawn and is compromised, the UN Genrols also have the same setup and so you can imagine.

One sets up Leaderji with the "No escalation saar, onlee hit terrorist saar, not aggressor saar" bullshit ROE then assorted other UN Genrols and Afsars blame him for any asset loss because of the ROE.

Totally fixed match, only way out is that they must buttress the point via IT Celliyas that we bund-blasted them including Punjab and they could do absolutely nothing to our side and had to beg for ceasefire to Uncle Sam( or Indian DGMO )

Opposition swines make everything about Modi as if he was flying the jets or planning operations, when everything is focused on Leaderji the Rayban-dharis get away scot free

 

[harish_ch]

This will be an unpopular post but I couldn't resist from posting. Lot of questions bothering me.

1. Objective of Operation Sindoor is to punish the Terrorists, their handlers and their backers. When we attacked the Terror camps, Pakis responded by launching counter attacks on our forces. Instead of demolishing them, we just were content in hitting only Terror camps and even in the press meet after Foreign Secretary went to great lengths to emphasize that no military establishments were targeted.

Why is this so? Wasn't it a great opportunity to teach a lesson to Pakis when they were trying to interfere with our attacks on Terror camps?

Does this not contradict our original idea of punishing the Terror backers or is it our official stance that Paki Army is not backing Terrorists? And what the hell is this Proportionate response? Why the hell everyday in the pressers we keep telling we will not do anything more unless Pak does something?

2. Even a novice can predict that Pakis will counter our attack on Terror camps. What should've been our approach?
Wouldn't it have been better to announce to the world that while punishing the terrorists if Pakis come in between, they will be considered as Terrorist supporters and targeted too and then launch the attacks at a time of our choosing, rather than tying hands of forces not to attack the Paki Military and sending them to bomb terror camps?

3. Ok. Now that we've shown our military superiority and made Pakistan beg for Ceasefire, did we meet our Objective?
Are the terrorists scared to come out in the open? Will Pakis stop supporting Terrorists?

My answer is a HARD NO. We have already seen too many videos of terrorists calling out for avenging the attacks. We have seen assholes like Afridi taking out Victory parade in Karachi. Don't get me started on the narrative war. Paki buggers have been circulating fake videos of blasts in India and circulating in their local groups which will assuage people who ask questions about blasts in their cities. Then what is the point of this operation? What did it achieve?

4. Let me tell you what we should've done.

a. We should've fucked the PAKI army on the first day when they tried to stop our attacks on Terror camps.
b. Worst case: We should've accepted the ceasefire ONLY if Pakis handover Hafiz to us. This would've given a visible win to us and would've created lot of turmoil in Pakistan and undermine the Paki Army image.
c. Best Case: We have severely degraded Pakis. They don't even know how to counter our AF. Now was the best time to continue and see this to the end rather than stopping here and let China/US rearm Pakis to bring parity with us. Fuck them until they can no longer hold their country together and split it with the help of Baloch, Afghans etc.

5. Yes. We'd have faced ire of US. We'd have faced sanctions. Worse we'd have gone to a Nuclear war. But isn't it worth the cause? Entire nation was ready for any eventuality. I have not seen a single person in my circle who was happy with this ceasefire.

Till when do we want to maintain this status quo. Till we become 15 trillion dollar economy? And then what? Paki nuclear arsenal will be lost by then is it? US/China will then openly support Pakis if we were to emerge as an independent power. Isn't it so?

6. Ok fine. You won. This is not the time. We need to grow our economy. We need more time to neuter Pakistan. We can't handle a 2 Front war if China comes into picture. We can do it when we are not dependent on US/Russia.

Then Fucking don't start a War now. Don't do this Tamasha of limited attacks which achieves nothing. These buggers are like cockroaches. They don't fear these limited attacks. If you kill 100, 1000 more will be radicalized as long as they have backing of Paki army.

Destroy the roots of the evil, not just trimming the branches.

Fucking peacenik, spineless civilization we are.

Revisting my post from May12th...Came to the same conclusion once again -> Fucking peacenik, spineless civilization we are!

 

[Knowitall]

Fuck off the planes..infact our all Pilots are safe....if something is downed its a part and parcel of war but Honestly Guys is baar jo mazaa Pakistan ki gaand maarke aaya voh swarg main bhi nahi milega ...Jai Hind..

If you actually read the paragraph there is no mention of planes at all. I myself have repeatedly stated that losses are part and parcel of any conflict and anyone crying over losses should not ask for retaliation the next time.

What my paragraph touched upon is the increasing divergence of statements being made by the govt and the military.

It seems like there is a serious divide over how the entire operation was handled from day 1 to the day of the ceasefire with constant contradictory statements being made by both sides.

IAF also appears to be pissed off about what it believes should have been avoidable and completely unnecessary losses inflicted upon it due to restrictions placed upon it despite claims of “free hand”.

The military has clearly thrown the govt under the bus with constant statement’s being made outside India with no prior approval whatsoever.

 

[shade2]

No one cares about the loss of fighters but why they were lost. The CDS said the same thing: it is more important to analyze why they were lost - clearly implying that the gormint had held the military back. And this is what is worrisome especially after saying that we are giving the military a free hand. It brings down the credibility of leader ji.

You can't clearly imply anything saar, he most likely meant that IAF would rectify and improve upon whatever mistake or miscalculation led to damage/shoot down etc.

 

[daya]

Fuck off the planes..infact our all Pilots are safe....if something is downed its a part and parcel of war but Honestly Guys is baar jo mazaa Pakistan ki gaand maarke aaya voh swarg main bhi nahi milega ...Jai Hind..

You are right, but the Statement of Shiv Kumar raises a question to both the leadership, Political as well as Military leadership. It there was danger of losing aircrafts, the same would have clearly submitted to political leadership, as per prevailing situation I double if anyone has guts to do so. Everyone loves Yesman and Yesman is loved by everyone.