P 17B Next Generation Frigates

[haldilal]

‘Most advanced ships to be built in India’: Defence ministry to clear mega Rs 70,000 crore order for new stealth warships - Times of India

Boost for the Indian Navy! The leading contenders for the contract for stealth frigates, classified as Project 17B, are the government-owned shipyards Mazagon Dockyards Limited (MDL) and Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE).

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

nilgiri class frigate project 17-A seven frigate's cost was 45000 crore (5.4 billion dollar). that make per frigate cost near 772 million dollar....but now sources r saying in repeat order Project 17-B, we r going to order 7 same nilgiri type (6000+ ton displacement) frigate in 70000 crore (8.3 billion dollar)...that make same frigate (may be some little indigenous tech like radar or VLSRAM sam etc) cost near 1.2 billion dollar per frigate.
this is insane if news is true...our vishakapatnam class cost near 1 billion dollar. nd it hv more range, 8 more brahmos, two helicopter etc extra capabilities than nilgiri type frigate. dont know why our weapons r getting too much costly in second order.
same case with 3 scorpion class submrine. we bought them 6 in number in 4.3 billion dollar. that mean 717 million dollar per submarine....but now 3 scorpion will cost us 35000 crore or 4.17 billion dollar. that mean 1.4 billion dollar per scorpion . it hv additionally AIP enabled nd may be lethium batteries. how can a 2000 ton displacement diesel submarine can be that costly nd double in cost than previous order. for reference america's 10000 ton SSN Virginia class cost is near 4.1 billion dollar.
yes inflation can rise price...but not 50-100% cost rise. why navy shopping is getting pricer nd pricer??

 

[marliii]

nilgiri class frigate project 17-A seven frigate's cost was 45000 crore (5.4 billion dollar). that make per frigate cost near 772 million dollar....but now sources r saying in repeat order Project 17-B, we r going to order 7 same nilgiri type (6000+ ton displacement) frigate in 70000 crore (8.3 billion dollar)...that make same frigate (may be some little indigenous tech like radar or VLSRAM sam etc) cost near 1.2 billion dollar per frigate.
this is insane if news is true...our vishakapatnam class cost near 1 billion dollar. nd it hv more range, 8 more brahmos, two helicopter etc extra capabilities than nilgiri type frigate. dont know why our weapons r getting too much costly in second order.
same case with 3 scorpion class submrine. we bought them 6 in number in 4.3 billion dollar. that mean 717 million dollar per submarine....but now 3 scorpion will cost us 35000 crore or 4.17 billion dollar. that mean 1.4 billion dollar per scorpion . it hv additionally AIP enabled nd may be lethium batteries. how can a 2000 ton displacement diesel submarine can be that costly nd double in cost than previous order. for reference america's 10000 ton SSN Virginia class cost is near 4.1 billion dollar.
yes inflation can rise price...but not 50-100% cost rise. why navy shopping is getting pricer nd pricer??

P17b is going to be an 8 ship class.

 

[jaijaganath]

nilgiri class frigate project 17-A seven frigate's cost was 45000 crore (5.4 billion dollar). that make per frigate cost near 772 million dollar....but now sources r saying in repeat order Project 17-B, we r going to order 7 same nilgiri type (6000+ ton displacement) frigate in 70000 crore (8.3 billion dollar)...that make same frigate (may be some little indigenous tech like radar or VLSRAM sam etc) cost near 1.2 billion dollar per frigate.
this is insane if news is true...our vishakapatnam class cost near 1 billion dollar. nd it hv more range, 8 more brahmos, two helicopter etc extra capabilities than nilgiri type frigate. dont know why our weapons r getting too much costly in second order.
same case with 3 scorpion class submrine. we bought them 6 in number in 4.3 billion dollar. that mean 717 million dollar per submarine....but now 3 scorpion will cost us 35000 crore or 4.17 billion dollar. that mean 1.4 billion dollar per scorpion . it hv additionally AIP enabled nd may be lethium batteries. how can a 2000 ton displacement diesel submarine can be that costly nd double in cost than previous order. for reference america's 10000 ton SSN Virginia class cost is near 4.1 billion dollar.
yes inflation can rise price...but not 50-100% cost rise. why navy shopping is getting pricer nd pricer??

Follow on order will be of 8 frigates
Moreover new indigenous electronics and equipments will be incorporated and as those aren't in production the cost will include establishing production facility of newly inducted equipments and plus inflation
And about scorpene the cost is high bcoz we didn't give orders after completion of 6th sub due to which supply chain was disrupted and has to be re-established plus inflation
And the scorpenes ordered were not fitted with aip which is damn costly
We have to wait how much does exactly drdo aip costs

 

[Bleh]

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

View attachment 3370

Don't know where they got this, but definitely not P-17A (Nilgiri Class). Maybe it's a P-17B concept.

 

[Blood+]

Don't know where they got this, but definitely not P-17A (Nilgiri Class). Maybe it's a P-17B concept.
View attachment 3472

Probably just an artist's impression.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Don't know where they got this, but definitely not P-17A (Nilgiri Class). Maybe it's a P-17B concept.
View attachment 3472

Design and labels don't match...
Looks like uvls, but marked as separate. One set of vls marked for radar?

 

[Blood+]

Design and labels don't match...
Looks like uvls, but marked as separate. One set of vls marked for radar?

Yeah, markings are all wrong. By the way, do you have any idea about our current per year production capacity for missiles??

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Yeah, markings are all wrong. By the way, do you have any idea about our current per year production capacity for missiles??

Last time it was declared was 20 ish years ago I think, when it was 100 per year and they were trying to increase to 400 per year. With 10 year shelf life, stands to reason that we have about ~1000-2500 missiles now across all three forces.

 

[Blood+]

Last time it was declared was 20 ish years ago I think, when it was 100 per year and they were trying to increase to 400 per year. With 10 year shelf life, stands to reason that we have about ~1000-2500 missiles now across all three forces.

Yeah, I remember there had been news anout creating at least 3 additional production facilities (one being in Lucknow, another in Pillani) but since then, there been no news regarding their current status.

 

[RaMdAs]

Don't know where they got this, but definitely not P-17A (Nilgiri Class). Maybe it's a P-17B concept.
View attachment 3472

Looks like pre P17A concept. Not official obviously.

 

[Bleh]

‘Most advanced ships to be built in India’: Defence ministry to clear mega Rs 70,000 crore order for new stealth warships - Times of India

Boost for the Indian Navy! The leading contenders for the contract for stealth frigates, classified as Project 17B, are the government-owned shipyards Mazagon Dockyards Limited (MDL) and Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE).

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Can you rename this as P-17B Next Generation Frigate?.. easier to find threads with project name.

The P-17B, commonly referred to as ‘P-17A repeat order’ will feature 8 ships rather than the previously mentioned 7. The project is likely to be divided between the two shipyards similar to P-17A, presumably 4 hulls each. The project is estimated to cost around 70,000cr for the 8 ships compared to 45,000cr for 7 ships under P-17A.

View: https://twitter.com/DefSysCI/status/1823710252908568968

 

[Bleh]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/rafalem-acquisition-to-clear-final-hurdle-at-dac-today-101725330692126.html

While the government is tight-lipped over the DAC meeting, HT learns that Singh will also take a call on approving the construction of seven more Project 17 B stealth frigates at a cost of ₹70,000 crore. The new frigates will weigh around 8000 tonnes each and are expected to have significant strike capability.

What the fuck kind of Frigates are 8000t, ofcourse it'll cost 1billion each that way!
Even the US Pocket destroyers Constellation Class are 7300t. Baden-Württemberg are 7200t, up coming British Type 31 & Polish Miecznik Class maybe 7000t.

Kuchh bhi banake frigate bol doge kya? Shouldn't we make 5000t class ships in large numbers instead?

 

[SlayingHell]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/rafalem-acquisition-to-clear-final-hurdle-at-dac-today-101725330692126.html

What the fuck kind of Frigates are 8000t, ofcourse it'll cost 1billion each that way!
Even the US Pocket destroyers Constellation Class are 7300t. Baden-Württemberg are 7200t, up coming British Type 31 & Polish Miecznik Class maybe 7000t.

Kuchh bhi banake frigate bol doge kya? Shouldn't we make 5000t class ships in large numbers instead?

1. Decide Speeds
2. Decide available engines
3. And then Decide Tonnage
and not reverse.
If the Navy wants a 30 Knots Ship with 2x LM2500 CODOG, then why limit yourself to lower tonnage when 6500 tons is very much viable like Nilgiri Class? Why bother saving steel which is often the cheapest component in building ships?
If the Navy wants a 30 Knots ship with Diesels only then the tonnage have to go down to some 4500-ish tons.
Constellation Class has a CODLAG propulsion at 7500-tons but they themselves limit to 26knots. Baden-Wuttenberg is piece of trash and it has max speed of 26 knots only. Type 31 is again CODAD but only some 27 knots with 5500 tons.
We have to ask Navy what kind of speed they want? And only then can proceed to decide the tonnage and not otherwise around.

 

[Bleh]

1. Decide Speeds
2. Decide available engines
3. And then Decide Tonnage
and not reverse.
If the Navy wants a 30 Knots Ship with 2x LM2500 CODOG, then why limit yourself to lower tonnage when 6500 tons is very much viable like Nilgiri Class? Why bother saving steel which is often the cheapest component in building ships?
If the Navy wants a 30 Knots ship with Diesels only then the tonnage have to go down to some 4500-ish tons.
Constellation Class has a CODLAG propulsion at 7500-tons but they themselves limit to 26knots. Baden-Wuttenberg is piece of trash and it has max speed of 26 knots only. Type 31 is again CODAD but only some 27 knots with 5500 tons.
We have to ask Navy what kind of speed they want? And only then can proceed to decide the tonnage and not otherwise around.

I'd say cost of a big factor for us rn... 8 frigates of 8000t for 1billion could become 12 at the same price at 6500t of present. Especially when our Shivalik-Nilgiri frigate platforms have plenty of room for 12 BrahMos plus AShBM & 48 SAMs in various combination. These destroyers are both more crammed & have 48 SAMs vs their 32.

But if the P-17B comes with even more armament, them they're essentially destroyers... which again brings us back to the high-low-quality-vs-quantity ratio issue. We need good good enough, but we need more even more.

(Although I expect them to be 7000t only. IN ships are big for their classes, but the initial design targets even larger)

 

[marliii]

I'd say cost of a big factor for us rn... 8 frigates of 8000t for 1billion could become 12 at the same price at 6500t of present. Especially when our Shivalik-Nilgiri frigate platforms have plenty of room for 12 BrahMos plus AShBM & 48 SAMs in various combination. These destroyers are both more crammed & have 48 SAMs vs their 32.

But if the P-17B comes with even more armament, them they're essentially destroyers... which again brings us back to the high-low-quality-vs-quantity ratio issue. We need good good enough, but we need more even more.

(Although I expect them to be 7000t only. IN ships are big for their classes, but the initial design targets even larger)

Globally everyone is planning on building "frigates " that are upto 8000 tonnes in displacement.Constellation class is a mess that is now experiencing weight increase and will easily weigh more than what they planned at the beginning.

 

[Blood+]

Globally everyone is planning on building "frigates " that are upto 8000 tonnes in displacement.Constellation class is a mess that is now experiencing weight increase and will easily weigh more than what they planned at the beginning.

Ships of such displacement would only make sense if they were to have the same/ better armament profile of its contemporaries, but since that is unlikely to be the case (will be glad... nay, ecstatic if I am proven wrong), a batch of smaller vessels, of say 6k tons, would have sufficed.

 

[SlayingHell]

Everyone, if Navy wants a 8000-Ton ship with 30knots propulsion then they have to use CODLAG propulsion which is costlier with LM2500+ at 30MW and a 8MW or 10MW MAN Diesel Engines. It requires a complicated gearbox set. Either that or 4x LM2500 25MW in COGAG propulsion.
If they want to keep their current propulsion of CODOG in Nilgiri Class, then if they increase the ship tonnage to 8000 Tons, the max speed gonna suffer and will likely be at some 27 knots.

 

[Fatalis]

I think we shouldn't club P-17B with Next Generation Frigates. They will come after the Next Generation Destroyers. P-17B will most probably be a continuation of P-17 inspired hull and design so not a next generation.

 

[Blood+]

I think we shouldn't club P-17B with Next Generation Frigates. They will come after the Next Generation Destroyers. P-17B will most probably be a continuation of P-17 inspired hull and design so not a next generation.

That's almost a given. What I'm interested in now is what radars these babies gonna get since the MF STAR was supposedly put into that no import list or whatever.