Pahalgam Islamic Terror Attack

Vinash said:
Indian Army ushering in Hindu India by doing namaz.

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Indian army and Indian state is making the same mistake which came from having a lack of shatrubodh that Dharmics have suffered from for most of the last millenia. They won battles but kept losing wars because they don't understand the enemy well enough and don't recognise the nature of the game that they are playing which almost certainly guarantees an eventual final defeat even if you get a lot of wins along the way which won't change anything in the grand scheme of things. This op sadbhavana, Not all Chuslims etc is proof of that. I'm not even sure in this democratic system we are cursed with if an optimal solution is even possible or if the Overton window will ever shift beyond making Pak sympathising a fringe opinion even among most normie circles which was not the case even a decade back.
 
Miss Firing said:
At this point, we need not make any difference between Pakistani civilians & military.

Again, massive Intel failure.

It seems Pakistan is not bothered/deterred by Trump who has released money for F-16 maintenance which was approved before by Biden.

They are itching for an Indian retaliation to "unify" their quam.

I am sure there are voices within India bureaucracy & polity that would not want to give Pakistan that.
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The harsh truth is that
'As long as the Pakistan Army and the ISI exist as an organised force,these type of incidents cannot be prevented '.

But have we even tried salami slicing of Pakistan controlled territory as a response to major terrorist attacks.

Perhaps our security could improve if Pakistan becomes another Lebanon with various nationalities and ethnic groups there being busy fighting among themselves.

Or simply & completely annex the whole of POK.
Be prepared to pay the costs.
We must have a viable strategy to take out Pakistan's nuclear weapons.
There will a risk factor no doubt,but many a times fortune favours the brave.

As far as specific retaliation for the latest attack goes all options should be on the table.
 
For people demanding retaliation, with what? The Indian army and air force are the weakest they have been since 1962, relative to Pakistan. Combine that with a senior office cadre that is dangerously incomptent at modern warfare, and this is an army that is barely positioned to defend, let alone go on an offense.

Anyone who studied IAFs airstrikes on Balakot and the subsquent third rate counter air campaign- know this is a fighting force that doesnt know or understand how to build operational strategies or conduct combat ops at all - These are basic air ops missions - conducted every day by US, NATO, Russia, Israel, Ukraine, that too successfully, day in and day out. Heck, Syrian air forces conducted better strike missions for heavens' sake. How on earth can you screw the one thing you trained for, for a damned generation no less. How on earth will any government trust this force after that wholesale disaster of an operation.

The less said about army fighting units the better - save for few specialist units, whose combat capability is being degraded every day - most of Indian fighting units are at 1990s Iraq army standards (excluding signals maybe) - Training standards - perhaps worse. There is no strategy or master plan - its basically somehow plug the holes with enough bodies till opponents run out of ammo, or get bored.

Just praise whoever you believe in that the other side is even more incompetent in a conventional sense - and that takes some doing - or else we are very very well positioned to for some deep humiliations this decade as combat capability further erodes.
 
Tridev123 said:
The harsh truth is that
'As long as the Pakistan Army and the ISI exist as an organised force,these type of incidents cannot be prevented '.

But have we even tried salami slicing of Pakistan controlled territory as a response to major terrorist attacks.

Perhaps our security could improve if Pakistan becomes another Lebanon with various nationalities and ethnic groups there being busy fighting among themselves.

Or simply & completely annex the whole of POK.
Be prepared to pay the costs.
We must have a viable strategy to take out Pakistan's nuclear weapons.
There will a risk factor no doubt,but many a times fortune favours the brave.

As far as specific retaliation for the latest attack goes all options should be on the table.
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More clued up gyanis have analysed this and concluded that this salami slicing scenario won't work. Only opening up a huge front will for which we need to be ready. We can't nibble away at territory without them noticing or without being prepared for a much larger escalation.
 
DivineHeretic said:
For people demanding retaliation, with what? The Indian army and air force are the weakest they have been since 1962, relative to Pakistan. Combine that with a senior office cadre that is dangerously incomptent at modern warfare, and this is an army that is barely positioned to defend, let alone go on an offense.

Anyone who studied IAFs airstrikes on Balakot and the subsquent third rate counter air campaign- know this is a fighting force that doesnt know or understand how to build operational strategies or conduct combat ops at all - These are basic air ops missions - conducted every day by US, NATO, Russia, Israel, Ukraine, that too successfully, day in and day out. Heck, Syrian air forces conducted better strike missions for heavens' sake. How on earth can you screw the one thing you trained for, for a damned generation no less. How on earth will any government trust this force after that wholesale disaster of an operation.

The less said about army fighting units the better - save for few specialist units, whose combat capability is being degraded every day - most of Indian fighting units are at 1990s Iraq army standards (excluding signals maybe) - Training standards - perhaps worse. There is no strategy or master plan - its basically somehow plug the holes with enough bodies till opponents run out of ammo, or get bored.

Just praise whoever you believe in that the other side is even more incompetent in a conventional sense - and that takes some doing - or else we are very very well positioned to for some deep humiliations this decade as combat capability further erodes.
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IA is incapable of hurting Pak yeah.

Why not at least take out these scumbags?


View: https://x.com/effucktivehumor/status/1914708498853560627
 
Vinash said:
Let's stick to modern era.

Axis powers did it but it was once and you could argue they had better tech. It wasn't spread over 7-8 decades like in India-Pakistan's case.
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yes that is true. Axis were not unanimously tech and production backwarsd to allies like pakis are to us. And it didnt last decades of aggression.

And we are pretty much the only country facing this scenario in the modern time. But at the end of the day, it comes down to the axiom ' in a democracy, people get the government they deserve'.

We can moan, we can bitch, but gormint is reflection of majority hindu, which is NOT us on this forum. and majority hindu wants a scenario where they will beat the enemy into a pulp and not take a single kick in return. And until it is confident it can do this, it wont want to fight.

The shatrubodh. And on that front, we as a civilization ARE making rapid progress. look at how far hindus HAVE come in shatrubodh since independence.
Remember, we may whine and laugh at Nehru as a retard for doing hindi-chini bhai-bhai and aman ki aasha with pakis, but BACK THEN this was seen as very good thing to do by the hindu awaam.

Again, we got the leaders we deserve. back then, as well as now. and so will we in future.

The overton window has to shift a lot more for us to act like Israel, but you forget, israeli, as rank and file PEOPLE came from genocide of Hitler and got the concept of 'staring death in its face and learing what it means to have nothing left to lose'. 95% or more hindus personally never faced this, many of us ourselves never had muslim soldiers come and chop heads off of our great-great-great grandpas or since then.


This is why my suggesstion seems emotive, but it actually is not - it shifts the overton window further and further towards us becoming like Israel as a society - survive and fight islam or die.
 
I think a positive feedback loop was in progress in Kashmir.

Peace--> Tourists --> Income/ Exposure to bigger world --> Happy People --> Peace

The attack seems to achieve the objectives of
1. Create fear in tourists so that their number decreases and Kashmir does not become normal.
2. Make JD Vance feel unsafe, make his visit cut short

I would say something would have been planned for other places too.
More number of attacks--> Combined fear psychosis

But these are all short term things. Separatism/Terrorism, etc. have only one root cause- Islamic belief that preaches to kill Hindus and Jews. Unless this belief goes, someone with this belief will always pick guns and kill a few Hindus.
 
darkflame said:
So many people are dead, in a fair world both HM and defence minister should resign
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Resignation is never an answer. It is like running away from your duty, nothing honesty. Time to do Root cause analysis and bring some changes in SOP and some solutions.

GaudaNaresh said:
India is a country of 1.4 billion.
India is i believe the 3rd or 4th biggest chemical industry producer on planet earth.

Yet for some strange reason, we cannot find a SINGLE desi patriot who will dump some cyanide or toluene or strychnine into the jhelum or chenab.
They blow up our women and children but we cannot find a single dude who will just drive a truck, cause an accident in jhelum and cause half a million dead in Rawalpindi six months later.
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Chemical and Bio warfare once unleashed will be difficult to handle. Something like an gas released in Pakistan can be swept away by wind to India. How can we stop them? Same with Bio weapons like Virus, what happens if the Virus gets mutated and our preventive vaccines stop working. It is an dual edge knife problem.

Or drastic way is to go Russian style, send letter with Polonium. Slow and steady death over the years. But we don't go to that extent.

Vinash said:
What's stopping IA from creating terror groups like Pak Army?

Surely probability of success would be much higher than rag tag civilians doing it.

Are our Army walas sanskaris who can't bend the rules?
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IA is an professional Army which does not involve in creating Militia. It is an role of Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) to handle these things covertly. But RAW itself is compromised over the years with people like Dualet and other folks who are licking Pakis ass 24x7.
 
DivineHeretic said:
For people demanding retaliation, with what? The Indian army and air force are the weakest they have been since 1962, relative to Pakistan. Combine that with a senior office cadre that is dangerously incomptent at modern warfare, and this is an army that is barely positioned to defend, let alone go on an offense.

Anyone who studied IAFs airstrikes on Balakot and the subsquent third rate counter air campaign- know this is a fighting force that doesnt know or understand how to build operational strategies or conduct combat ops at all - These are basic air ops missions - conducted every day by US, NATO, Russia, Israel, Ukraine, that too successfully, day in and day out. Heck, Syrian air forces conducted better strike missions for heavens' sake. How on earth can you screw the one thing you trained for, for a damned generation no less. How on earth will any government trust this force after that wholesale disaster of an operation.

The less said about army fighting units the better - save for few specialist units, whose combat capability is being degraded every day - most of Indian fighting units are at 1990s Iraq army standards (excluding signals maybe) - Training standards - perhaps worse. There is no strategy or master plan - its basically somehow plug the holes with enough bodies till opponents run out of ammo, or get bored.

Just praise whoever you believe in that the other side is even more incompetent in a conventional sense - and that takes some doing - or else we are very very well positioned to for some deep humiliations this decade as combat capability further erodes.
Click to expand...

If i am going to take a critical 'devils adovate' side to this balakot airstrike and counter air campaign,
i will have to give a C+ to balakot and B+ to counter air campaign.

I am not sure how this is not clear-cut to any analyst based off of barebone facts:

1. IN balakot, we successfully managed enemy air penetration and returned with zero losses. THAT is indisputable. If we believe PAF and not IAF, we hit trees - ok. So we took shit bombs or dropped it at wrong place. but we did deliver payload. our strike packages DID come home empty and even PAF said 'look muh dead trees'.
Thats a C+ effort at worst.
The main hurdle OF bombing campaign, is successful penetration & extraction of assets from enemy air space. We achieved that.


2. Counter air campaign - Pakistan made a directed air attack against a specific installation - that is pakistan saying 'we must fight' and we going 'okay'. We prevented directed air strike on said target AND we took down a F16 at cost of a Mig21.

Thats like having a team run full speed at your fence with their cars, you manage to stop them all, you lose one of your cars - maruti and take out one of theirs - a jaguar.

how the hell is that NOT an A- performance at the worst ?!

ok,lets say IAF lied about shooting down F16 ( i have no reason to doubt IAF word as they are most trustworthy airforces in the world) - this means we lost 1 plane, prevented bombing run of target attacked by PAF.
meaning we stopped THEIR balakot tit for tat and lost a plane in turn.
Imagine if we went to balakot, didnt even get to drop bombs and came back but they just lost a plane in defence. PAF failed in delivering payload and fucked off. took down a plane in return, so failed strike mission FOR THEM.
Thats at worst a C+.

So i am interested in your analysis of why are you willing to give IAF what seems like a F or D- in both counts.
 
mist_consecutive said:
Post the screenshot ?
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Altitude is stable but speed fluctuations is high, max speed has reached 1000 knots. cant be a UAV or transport aircraft. Few more platforms was visible but disappeared after few mins, may be they switched off the receiver
 

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