Pahalgam Islamic Terror Attack

Sanglamorre said:
Hopefully it was a psyop and not an actual retired personnel who asked why didn't civilians without any combat training start their Hero arc.

Because all it would happen is you'd get shot by the second or third guy.
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With shooters in the US, the training is to run and find cover and get out of the line of sight of the shooter. If you find yourself with the shooter and they are shooting people and you are cornered, the training is to attack them but run at them erratically zig zag lines. Even while running away it should be zig zag lines and erratic changes in direction. It makes it harder yo aim at you
 
srev2004 said:
They have been on the run for 6 days, they are likely exhausted at the moment
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Then they will definitely take the fight to the end, a death charge perhaps. These are fidayeen they come to kill and then be killed, like 26/11,pathankot,uri.
 
Sanglamorre said:
Hopefully it was a psyop and not an actual retired personnel who asked why didn't civilians without any combat training start their Hero arc.

Because all it would happen is you'd get shot by the second or third guy.
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Even if it is pys ops, Indians need to buckle up. Israelis don't go around passing blame to each other. Their men and women carry assault rifles on the streets of Tel Aviv.
 
srev2004 said:
With shooters in the US, the training is to run and find cover and get out of the line of sight of the shooter. If you find yourself with the shooter and they are shooting people and you are cornered, the training is to attack them but run at them erratically zig zag lines. Even while running away it should be zig zag lines and erratic changes in direction. It makes it harder yo aim at you
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It was an open meadow. I think the first instinct will be to go for the first training.
 
JConline said:
Even if it is pys ops, Indians need to buckle up. Israelis don't go around passing blame to each other. Their men and women carry assault rifles on the streets of Tel Aviv.
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Israel is also mandatory conscription. Ergo, they have combat training.
Now, let's talk about the 7th Oct attack. Terrorists were able to mow down a population who has had undergone conscription and can carry weapons.

Not sure what these servicemen are expecting.
 
Sanglamorre said:
Hopefully it was a psyop and not an actual retired personnel who asked why didn't civilians without any combat training start their Hero arc.

Because all it would happen is you'd get shot by the second or third guy.
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His rationale was that if you're going to eat a bullet anyway then you may as well do it this way by trying to live. Not saying I agree. Don't forget among the 26 was 1 navy man and 1 airforce man.
 
Tridev123 said:
An suggestion with specific relevance to Pakistan.
As per many sources Pakistan's capital city Islamabad/Rawalpindi is approximately 310 km by road from the Indian Punjab border.

Since GHQ Rawalpindi is the ultimate command centre for directing major terrorist attacks on India, why not have some useful leverage over those twin cities Islamabad & Rawalpindi.

Should we develop a ultra long range MBRL(obviously a guided rocket) of range max 350km.An 8 or even 12 tube device. Having quite heavy warhead possibly 200 - 300 kg.

Without even crossing the border the Pakistan Army headquarters can be bombarded.

A question arises.
Why develop an ultra long range MBRL when we have ballistic missiles of sufficient range which can hit Rawalpindi.

Because the impact of 8 to 12 rockets/missiles striking Pakistan's GHQ simultaneously is much greater. I believe the ISI headquarters is also in Islamabad.

Will not an bombing of the Pakistan Army headquarters lower the morale of its military.

I agree that the suggestion is debatable and not everyone will feel that an MBRL which can reach Pakistan's capital city needs to be developed.
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Bruh... check distance from LOC near Poonch to GHQ. Pinaka 2 can handle it, why 350km?
 
Sanglamorre said:
Israel is also mandatory conscription. Ergo, they have combat training.
Now, let's talk about the 7th Oct attack. Terrorists were able to mow down a population who has had undergone conscription and can carry weapons.

Not sure what these servicemen are expecting.
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The servicemen, like any rational human being expect their country men to at least give a fight and not accept their fates as it is. Like that gentlemen mentioned, the massacre in Pahalgam wouldn't have continued for 20-25 minutes and claimed 28 lives if these 28 men, even 5 of them fought it. Let me reiterate that it is not their fault and I'm not taking anything away from the gravity of their sacrifice. Granted that the civilians had no training whatsoever even in self preservation, let alone resistance. But what about the two servicemen who lost their lives. Their sacrifice is infuriating and heartbreaking but what is even more infuriating is that they, the men who are trained to take lives for the nation, didn't even fight for his own. If a soldier of the nation accepts his fate this way, you can only imagine the average Indian's reaction. I'm saying these things, not because I'm trying to throw shade on the lives lost. But the common Indian needs to change. That is the only way India as a society and nation can change and uphold a more hard-line stance to security in general.
But Hindus need to stop letting the world walk all over us in the name of brotherhood!
 
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srev2004 said:
With shooters in the US, the training is to run and find cover and get out of the line of sight of the shooter. If you find yourself with the shooter and they are shooting people and you are cornered, the training is to attack them but run at them erratically zig zag lines. Even while running away it should be zig zag lines and erratic changes in direction. It makes it harder yo aim at you
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Another fellow who was also an Army man showed the presence of mind and calm head which saved a few more lives. He had some luck too because he was late but still didnt' act like a headless chicken.

View: https://x.com/prasannabhat38/status/1915648157595427233


Yet another survival story from the tainted Baisaran valley in Pahalgam. We survived the horror to tell the story of what can only be described as monstrous act and paint the heavenly beauty blood-red with hellfire.By the grace of the God, luck, and some quick thinking from an Army officer saved not only our life but lives of another 35-40 people that day. Here's how the events unfolded for us that day. #Pahalgam #PahalgamTerroristAttack We had postponed our trip by 2 days due to bad weather to cover Pahalgam in our 8 day trip and visit the place which is described by many as paradise in Kashmir on the fateful day. Little did we know the ramifications of that one decision. We were four of us that day me, my wife, my brother and my sister-in-law who traveled from Srinagar to Pahalgam by car. My brother is a senior officer in the Indian Army and was on vacation to spend time with the family and accompanied us for the trip. We reached Pahalgam town around 12:30pm on Tue, 22nd April and took the pony ride to Baisaran valley and reached by 1:35 pm. It was completely muddy road until the top and covered by Pine trees on the hills all around. The 2 pony guides talked to us of the beauty and charm that is Pahalgam . We entered by the main gate like everyone else and went to one of the cafes setup by the left side of entrance. We were taken away by the majestic view and the landscape and enjoyed it with a cup of tea and kawa. The clock showed 02:00 PM, so we got up to take a stroll and click some photos of what should have been the cover photo of the Kashmir trip album. We were lucky to move in the direction opposite of the entrance. 1/4Barely a few mins later we heard the first 2 gun shots loudly around 02:25 pm. It was followed by a pin drop silence for a min and everyone was just comprehending what had happened and the kids playing all around were still enjoying the best picnic of their life. I'm sure this was the first time most of them heard the loud and terrifying sound of a shot fired from AK-47. We ran to the nearest cover point behind the mobile toilet that was installed on the side some 400 mts from the entrance. I could see two bodies lying on the ground already. My brother knew immediately that this was a terrorist attack. Then the hellfire broke, the gunshots came in bursts and chaos ensued. There was cacophony of the crowd screaming out loud and running for life.What one cannot see clearly in the videos is that the entire meadow region is fenced, so there is not much room to escape. So most of the crowd ran towards the gate for escape where the terrorists were already waiting, like sheeps running to the tiger. We could see a terrorist approaching in our direction, so we decided to run the other way and fortunately we found a narrow opening under the fence and most of the people hiding slide through the fence and started running the other way. My brother (Army officer) with his wife took cover near the mobile toilet. He managed to calm down the other people nearby. He quickly assessed the situation and understood that fire was coming from the entry point. So he guided us and 35-40 tourists in the opposite direction. Fortunately we found an opening in the fence due to nala (pipe). He took us along with others, through the fence and asked us not to bunch up. He guided the people to run in the downward direction to move away from the place where the firing was happening. It was a slope where the water stream was flowing so gave some level of protection from direct line of sight. It was very slippery to run on the muddy slope but many slipped but managed to run for life.It was terrifying knowing no place is safe right now and anything could happen in the next moment. Just imagine the situation of having kids and elderly people with you and even worse scattered in the crowd and you don't know their location and whether they are safe or not. Words cannot describe the terror and horror one feels in such a situation and you feel really helpless. The worst part was there was mobile network coverage in that area to quickly alert the police. We four managed to take a cover in a narrow pit under the trees a few hundred metres from the location desperately praying for our lives. The sound of the gun shots continued to echo through the valley for half an hour until 3 PM. My brother managed to alert the unit stationed in Pahalgam and the army headquarters in Srinagar about the impending terrorist attack around 02:45 pm. We stayed put in the pit for an hour petrified, hopeless, and praying for safety. We didn't know if we had to stay put in the same place or run in some random direction hoping to escape the death trap. All the while thinking about our little children and parents who we had left behind home and not knowing when this will end.At around 03:40 pm we heard the first sound of helicopters that gave the first signal that things have moved and help is on its way. By 4 pm, we spotted the soldiers from special forces and army and heaved a huge sigh of relief. They spotted us and knowing that we were tourists they assured us that the entire perimeter has been secured by Army and it was safe for us to walk down the hill. We were still in shock, brains and senses were numb at this point while only the gunshots and the horror running in loop in our mind. We saw the people affected covered in blood being carried down and a range of emotions and thoughts and still unable to believe the events unfolded in the last 2 hours.It's beyond words and expressions to describe the horrific act and the monsters who took the life of those innocent people in front of their loved ones. The gun shots still echoes in our ears and the terror still makes my gut wrench. This will leave a permanent scar, a memory that cannot be erased of what Kashmir's beauty hides underneath. It's painful to see this happening in our country. I pray that nobody ever has to go through such experience of terror in their life. We pray for their souls and I hope God will provide justice to them. Finally I want to express my gratitude to my brother and the entire Indian Army because of whom we are alive to narrate this incident in person and be back together with our family. Jai Hind.
🙏
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Sanglamorre said:
Israel is also mandatory conscription. Ergo, they have combat training.
Now, let's talk about the 7th Oct attack. Terrorists were able to mow down a population who has had undergone conscription and can carry weapons.

Not sure what these servicemen are expecting.
Click to expand...
mandatory conscription only good for countries will small population like israel, you need training infra to server such large number of intrants, which results in volunteers being mixed with unmotivated bunches.
 
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Roshan said:
Have seen a retired serviceman's video doing the rounds on WhatsApp which calls into question why none of the several able bodied men fought back, maybe some of you have also seen it. I am not going to go and check back on this thread if it's been commented on but he says out of all of them only the pony operator supposedly fought back and he wasn't even threatened, rest of them just meekly did what they were told to and even dropped their pants when asked to. Even someone who charged at the terrorists and went for their guns could've prevented many of these deaths. When facing assault rifles though, even 2 serving men couldn't do anything probably also because they were with family so I'm not sure if it's as easy as this gentleman is saying it was to show some fight and not co-operate in that situation. It takes more than training but a particular frame of mind/temperament to deal with such situations which most city dwelling Indians just don't/won't have due to a lack of need.
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Those two men who lost their lives were Navy and Air force personnel. I have spent 19 years of my life in various Air force stations and I know most of the manpower in Air force and significant manpower in Navy is non combatant and physically unfit, Officer and Air men don't even know how to handle rifle properly, especially MTDs(mechanical transport drivers) , accounts section, ATC personal etc. In Army almost all of the manpower is combatant and properly trained. In Airforce number of women officers are increasing and they don't go through any "ragda", so their male batchmates also don't go through any "ragda" or tough physicall routine. In 90's and early 2000's a lot of lady officer were daughters of senior officers of Army, Navy, Air Force( Both retired and serving) and they would use their contacts through their father's to skip any tough training regimen and as a result training of male male officer was also compromised, I am sure similar culture is going on in present times also. So whoever believe they were properly trained soldiers then I want to tell you that most man power in Air Force and significant manpower in Navy are as lazy as random civilians.
 
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