Sino-Vietnamese War

[Blood+]

My father, may he be blessed in the afterlife, would like to have a word with you.

Nah, that happened, quite a lot actually, often on account of poor leadership (or the officers/ NCOs getting whacked early on). And you know how they could single out our officers so easily - by their Sterlings!! Those things made them stick out like sore thumbs.

PS - the sheer disparity in firepower (SMLE against AKs and SKS) also played a key role as the sheer volume of incoming fire often made the Indian soldiers overestimate the strength of their enemy. That and the PLA sneaky breaky deep penetration tactics played a major role as well. The Indian Army was just too rigid (and ill prepared) to adapt to such tactics.

You have to keep in mind that those Indian soldiers had very little in the way of experience as opposed to the Chinese, a lot of who were veterans of the Korean war.

Now, you add up all these pieces and the picture becomes clear.

 

[Azaad]

Nah, let's not cope like a bunch of sore losers; instead just call it what it was - we got our asses handed to ourselves on silver platters.

There's this book The Himalayan Blunder by Brig Dalvi which many have heard about but few have read & this one

1962: A View from the Other Side of the Hill https://amzn.in/d/hB2gdAZ

Yes we lost & the reasons vary from being underequipped to lack of training & so on . But what about strategy & deployment of resources ? What about tactics ?

These two books mentioned above sheds a great deal of light on both these & many more such details.

 

[Blood+]

There's this book The Himalayan Blunder by Brig Dalvi which many have heard about but few have read & this one

1962: A View from the Other Side of the Hill https://amzn.in/d/hB2gdAZ

Yes we lost & the reasons vary from being underequipped to lack of training & so on . But what about strategy & deployment of resources ? What about tactics ?

These two books mentioned above sheds a great deal of light on both these & many more such details.

I don't know whether you'll believe me or not but I've got both of those (and quite a few others). And Dalvi is nowhere near as blameless as he tried to portray himself in his account, as it was his inaction that led to the disintegration and subsequent annihilation of the 7th brigade within a couple of hours of the first contact!!

 

[Azaad]

I don't know whether you'll believe me or not but I've got both of those (and quite a few others). And Dalvi is nowhere near as blameless as he tried to portray himself in his account, as it was his inaction that led to the annihilation of the 7th brigade within a couple of hours!!

I didn't suggest he's blameless at all but the entire deployment of his brigade was in the wrong place plus they were expected to sit tight. Those were their standing orders. Compare that to how a Sikh commander ( I forget his name ) in the same sector (?) handled the situation.

 

[Blood+]

I didn't suggest he's blameless at all

Never implied you did, bruv. I just thought I'd mention it for the sake of posterity.

but the entire deployment of his brigade was in the wrong place plus they were expected to sit tight. Those were their standing orders.

Of course it was and that was the entire point!! He was the ranking officer present at that point of time and he should have had the guts to taken an executive decision to override that illogical standing order by an incompetent commander (B.M Kaul, in case anyone's been wondering).

He should have taken his brigade off of that devil forsaken valley and had it redeployed up along the summit of the Thagla Ridge when Kaul had left!! He had plenty of time to save his brigade and just blew it, all in the name of obeying an order that he himself had admitted to be total bonkers!! If only if he had the guts to do what he knew was the right thing to do... if only.

Compare that to how a Sikh commander ( I forget his name ) in the same sector (?) handled the situation.

Yeah, this guy -

General Sagat Singh, exactly!! Saved Nathu La for us by going against his superiors!! Only if we had a guy like that in Jelep La and Thagla as well.

 

[Azaad]

Never implied you did, bruv. I just thought I'd mention it for the sake of posterity.

Of course it was and that was the entire point!! He was the ranking officer present at that point of time and he should have had the guts to taken an executive decision to override that illogical standing order by an incompetent commander (B.M Kaul, in case anyone's been wondering).

He should have taken his brigade off of that devil forsaken valley and had it redeployed up along the summit of the Thagla Ridge when Kaul had left!! He had plenty of time to save his brigade and just blew it, all in the name of obeying an order that he himself had admitted to be total bonkers!! If only if he had the guts to do what he knew was the right thing to do... if only.

Yeah, this guy -

General Sagat Singh, exactly!! Saved Nathu La for us by going against his superiors!! Only if we had a guy like that in Jelep La and Thagla as well.

No it wasn't Lt Gen Sagat Singh in Nathu la ,1967. I'm referring to 1962 NEFA . I forget the sector & the name of the local commander there except he was a Sikh & the troops he commanded gave a tough fight to the Chinese. I forget the details as it's been a long time since I've read about it.

 

[johny_baba]

No it wasn't Lt Gen Sagat Singh in Nathu la ,1967. I'm referring to 1962 NEFA . I forget the sector & the name of the local commander there except he was a Sikh & the troops he commanded gave a tough fight to the Chinese. I forget the details as it's been a long time since I've read about it.

Subedar Joginder Singh ?

Joginder Singh (soldier) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Blood+]

No it wasn't Lt Gen Sagat Singh in Nathu la ,1967.

I wasn't talking about the 67 skirmish, either.

I'm referring to 1962 NEFA . I forget the sector & the name of the local commander there except he was a Sikh & the troops he commanded gave a tough fight to the Chinese. I forget the details as it's been a long time since I've read about it.

I see. Sorry, doesn't ring a bell. I'll see if I can dig something out.

 

[Blood+]

Subedar Joginder Singh ?

Joginder Singh (soldier) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Probably not, he's talking about some high ranking officer.

 

[Azaad]

I wasn't talking about the 67 skirmish, either.

I see. Sorry, doesn't ring a bell. I'll see if I can dig something out.

Probably not, he's talking about some high ranking officer.

It was either Maj Harbans Singh or Brig Gurbux Singh.

 

[KumaoniReborn]

So were the Vietnamese!! Do keep in mind that the units that faced off against the PLA were not the Vietnamese Army (as they were busy raping the Khmer Rouge) but rather, local militia forces, albeit almost on par with the Army in terms of training but they badly lacked in heavy equipment.

They had 70,000-100,000 regular forces and outnumbered the chinese with their militia, while we were outnumbered 5:1 and not only lacked heavy equipment, but basic food, shelter, clothing, etc.