Small Arms and Weapons

[johny_baba]

I am curious to know around the details of import of various Aks like Russians Hungarian s and East German Aks and also Vz58s in early 90s and late 80s.Could anyone here know about the history about these imports.Russian Aks went exclusively to Marcos and CAPFs and army never got them.In fact CRPF and BSF had these underfolder Aks of 60s even before army got Romanian side folders. The Aks of Marcos were mid 70s ones contrary to the older ones MHA got.NSG and Para got Hungarian Aks in late 80s but those Aks are not to be seen nowdays in the hands of Paras.Also anyone knew where the East German side folders ended up? Meanwhile SFF was having Bulgarian Aks from 70s.

Sure i'll post something that roughly answers your questions,
as per this pdf which's quite old by now, it contains some rough estimates that
-> during late 80s-early 90s insurgency here, Indian Forces captured ~20000 of Kalashnikovs from terrorshits and many of those ended up in service, as evident from presence of chinese/pakistani-made Type 56 here
-> later on Indian Forces procured around 1 Lakh of kalashnikov pattern rifles, mainly from former combloc nations like Romania or Bulgaria, and *surprisingly* ammo was procured from North Korea of all states?!
-> there's mention of ordering 10 MILLION east german AKs but that order collapsed or something, though i suspect this was that Wieger StG-940 thing rather than MPi-KM series; but as Wieger's export oriented AK in 5.56x45mm couldn't make it here in good numbers, we got whatever was available on MPi-KM 7.62x39mm traditional AKs

 

[johny_baba]

View attachment 25102
Accidentally spotted SLR 1C full auto while watching border in YouTube.
Anyone knew why 1C was not mass produced in India?why it had israeli like handguards and not full length hand guards like other SLR variants.Never saw one in real life though

since we're talking about SLR 1C here, some of the pics of it that I happened to have in my library of pics in my PC, mostly from good ol' DFI only

(above pic credit - as written on the pic)


it definitely seems to have shorter barrel than common 1A SLR but thicker-heavier profile barrel plus full auto selector there, and notice that metal cap around front of the handguards, it has that distinct shape for allowing the rifle to be affixed on firing ports of infantry vehicles here, like this one port's for BMP-2 that can house an AK there after clamping it on

so most likely these 1C SLRs may have served as firing port weapons for most part, some of them ended up with various military and paramilitary personnel

 

[Alby]

I get to see them all the time with sentrys, some got upgraded with SSS furniture

A lot of RR and Inf units still use them. Most being with the formations close to LOC

I know Para uses upgraded Romanian ones but never saw them using Hungarian ones which were used during SriLankan ops

 

[Alby]

Sure i'll post something that roughly answers your questions,
as per this pdf which's quite old by now, it contains some rough estimates that
-> during late 80s-early 90s insurgency here, Indian Forces captured ~20000 of Kalashnikovs from terrorshits and many of those ended up in service, as evident from presence of chinese/pakistani-made Type 56 here
-> later on Indian Forces procured around 1 Lakh of kalashnikov pattern rifles, mainly from former combloc nations like Romania or Bulgaria, and *surprisingly* ammo was procured from North Korea of all states?!
-> there's mention of ordering 10 MILLION east german AKs but that order collapsed or something, though i suspect this was that Wieger StG-940 thing rather than MPi-KM series; but as Wieger's export oriented AK in 5.56x45mm couldn't make it here in good numbers, we got whatever was available on MPi-KM 7.62x39mm traditional AKs

This one says we bought some 20K Russian Aks in 2010 and scrapped Bulgarian Ak deal.But thats incorrect.Nothing like that happened.We surely bought thousands of Russian Aks with no muzzle devices and folding stocks(early 60s surplus stock) in early 90s for CAPFs which are seen in hands of police forces sometimes nowdays.
No mention about comparatively lighter purchases like East German,Hungarian Ak purchases,and those of Vz58s,micro Galils and PKs.
Are those PKs captured Chinese ones or Bulgarian or Romanian ones? Don’t know why Para went for much lighter PKM variants which weights only 7.5Kgs

 

[Airborne22]

I know Para uses upgraded Romanian ones but never saw them using Hungarian ones which were used during SriLankan ops

I've only seen Hungarian AK-63D in use by special group and NSG in J&K

 

[Alby]

I've only seen Hungarian AK-63D in use by special group and NSG in J&K

SG uses Hungarian ones so does NSG.But if you look at the rare pics of Para in late 80s or early 90s you could find them using Hungarian Aks including the AMD-65s. May be some of them will be lying idle in the armouries without being fired for the last couple of decades as Vzs and later Tavor have been the mainstay weapon of Para for ages.
Btw in old DFI i remember seeing scorpion vz-61 SMG in use with some state police forces .

 

[johny_baba]

This one says we bought some 20K Russian Aks in 2010 and scrapped Bulgarian Ak deal.But thats incorrect.Nothing like that happened.We surely bought thousands of Russian Aks with no muzzle devices and folding stocks(early 60s surplus stock) in early 90s for CAPFs which are seen in hands of police forces sometimes nowdays.
No mention about comparatively lighter purchases like East German,Hungarian Ak purchases,and those of Vz58s,micro Galils and PKs.
Are those PKs captured Chinese ones or Bulgarian or Romanian ones? Don’t know why Para went for much lighter PKM variants which weights only 7.5Kgs

of course it's just from some 2014 era 'survey' thing and may not contain all accurate info, also it seems from some west-leaning globohomo-ish source, but at least someone paid notice to Indian Small Arms Procurement from past, so i thought of putting it here.

 

[Mr.Evil]

Bro KS-1 is such a sexy rifle

View: https://x.com/tacticalporn/status/1890671856841085027

 

[Suryavanshi]

since we're talking about SLR 1C here, some of the pics of it that I happened to have in my library of pics in my PC, mostly from good ol' DFI only
View attachment 25182
(above pic credit - as written on the pic)
View attachment 25183View attachment 25184
View attachment 25185
it definitely seems to have shorter barrel than common 1A SLR but thicker-heavier profile barrel plus full auto selector there, and notice that metal cap around front of the handguards, it has that distinct shape for allowing the rifle to be affixed on firing ports of infantry vehicles here, like this one port's for BMP-2 that can house an AK there after clamping it on
View attachment 25186
so most likely these 1C SLRs may have served as firing port weapons for most part, some of them ended up with various military and paramilitary personnel

What's your opinion on arms kichadi?

Is it good to have multiple rifles/calibers or 1 to 2 standard rifle and calibers for most of its armed forces?

 

[johny_baba]

What's your opinion on arms kichadi?

Is it good to have multiple rifles/calibers or 1 to 2 standard rifle and calibers for most of its armed forces?

i've discussed it all so much at good ol' D F I, other facebook discussion groups (now mostly inactive), on teligram defense groups and so...and yet it remains only verbal larps...


but to repeat it one more time, i believe in intermediate calibre like 6.5x39mm Grendel chambered single indigeneous platform, and making variants in different length/size configurations out of it

right now ARDE guys are 'this' near to that thing with that CQB carbine platform in 5.56x45mm, 'Ugram' in 7.62x51mm and also some 6.8x43mm remington SPC based rifle variant under it...par jab import hi karna hai toh kya fayda...

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Hello it's me shamelessly plugging the 6.5x42 MPC again.


6x45 Remington works too


Both cartridges fit existing 5.56x45 STANAG mags.