Turkiye: News, Discussions & Updates.

Basically, f-110 engine variant which is Kaan block 10 will be 4,5+ generation since it will not be able to super cruise with f-110 engines. Kaan needs an engine almost like f-22 f-119 engine. However, In the western market there is no available one like that. So closer to that engine and one with tei has experience chosen.
Kaan Block 20 and on will have national 36k pounds engine.
Maybe block 30 will have tvc as well.
 
Kale jet engines,
It has ktj1750 used on çakır cruise missile
Ktj3200 used on som missile and atmaca missile
Ktj3700 used on atmaca land missile
Arat engine to be used on gezgin missile
And New Biga series turbofan engines

To complement som missile engines which were using french engine, a domestic engine project started with kale group in 2013. After 7-8 years, they have finally completed and overcome all hardships and produced ktj3200 engine for som missile. Same french engine were being used on atmaca missile, hence atmaca missile also started to use domestick ktj3200 engines. In the last 4 years, kale jet produced 2 more engines which are ktj1750 and ktj3700. It also signed arat engine project with ssb. Arat engine will be used on gezgin cruise missile.
Kale jet also working small turbofan engines to be used on missiles and maybe on APU.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oDNQuTpSzU0
 
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At first , it is planned to have an engine like the designed one. Since there is no available one in the market. It is chosen to go with f-110 engine which tei produced under license for years.
36k pounds will be produced with same dimensions like f-110 engine. Currently japanese x9 engine is the one almost matches with our design but Japan is not exporting or mass producing.
Kaan needs at least 22-23k pounds of dry thrust to super cruise!! Hence it will have 22-26k dry thrust and 36k wet thrust.
F-110 like engine is the one we can produce in several years. Advanced one is the one we are working.
This isn't merely a question of increasing 30 KN per TF apart from the obvious issue of generating the kind of thrust within the same dimensions .

This is also about major redesigning to accommodate an extra LP / HP stage which in turn increases the weight of the newly realised TF which will obviously be more than the F-100. With it comes the extra burden of a changed CoG , followed by a change in Flight Control Laws etc .

For perspective have a look at the TFX project . That seems at least on paper a well thought out & well fleshed out project. Incidentally RoK will be developing their own indigenous TF too which should be analogous to the GE F-414 TF which they've deployed aboard the Boramae , with an output perhaps > 100 KN of the F-414 , to be around 110 -120 KN .


Any casual observer wouldn't be convinced with the kind of explanations you're giving. Anyway all the best for your venture . I'm sure the world will be looking at it with great interest especially India now that Turkiye & Paxtan have officially announced joint production of the KAAN in the latter country which obviously makes them a production partner if not a development partner
 
This isn't merely a question of increasing 30 KN per TF apart from the obvious issue of generating the kind of thrust within the same dimensions .

This is also about major redesigning to accommodate an extra LP / HP stage which in turn increases the weight of the newly realised TF which will obviously be more than the F-100. With it comes the extra burden of a changed CoG , followed by a change in Flight Control Laws etc .

For perspective have a look at the TFX project . That seems at least on paper a well thought out & well fleshed out project. Incidentally RoK will be developing their own indigenous TF too which should be analogous to the GE F-414 TF with an output perhaps > 100 KN to be around 110 -120 KN .


Any casual observer wouldn't be convinced with the kind of explanations you're giving. Anyway all the best for your venture . I'm sure the world will be looking at it with great interest especially India now that Turkiye & Paxtan have officially announced joint production of the KAAN in the latter country which obviously makes them a production partner if not a development partner

Believe it or not, we are in better position than Korea in aero engines. Since we have everything ready for years. I am not sure whether Korea produced single crystal blades or not. We have that tech since 2017. If f-110 engine was the original need, it will not be hurdle for us to get f-110 like engine in 4-5 years especially after getting third gen single crystal turbine blades.
Türkiye was improving it's manpower for engine projects for the last 15 years. It brought many Turkish experts to Turkish universities from ge , rolls Royce and safran. They are also working as advisor for these projects beside increasing engineer number
 
According the TEI General Manager, study conducted in 2014 revealed areas where Turkish industry did not have the means to produce certain components. By 2017, those areas were worked on and component production capabilities were achieved.

Red Dots - Are where Turkish industry now has production capabilities. Meaning, all mechanical engine components can be produced in Turkey since 2017.
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Red dot areas where tei used to not have production capability in 2014.green dots tei used to have production technology. After 2017, all red areas production capability gained. In Turkish it says above of the chart we have design capacity ,but do we have production capability? In below of the chart it says as of 2017 all areas in the red ,tei gained production technology

 

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This isn't merely a question of increasing 30 KN per TF apart from the obvious issue of generating the kind of thrust within the same dimensions .

This is also about major redesigning to accommodate an extra LP / HP stage which in turn increases the weight of the newly realised TF which will obviously be more than the F-100. With it comes the extra burden of a changed CoG , followed by a change in Flight Control Laws etc .

For perspective have a look at the TFX project . That seems at least on paper a well thought out & well fleshed out project. Incidentally RoK will be developing their own indigenous TF too which should be analogous to the GE F-414 TF which they've deployed aboard the Boramae , with an output perhaps > 100 KN of the F-414 , to be around 110 -120 KN .


Any casual observer wouldn't be convinced with the kind of explanations you're giving. Anyway all the best for your venture . I'm sure the world will be looking at it with great interest especially India now that Turkiye & Paxtan have officially announced joint production of the KAAN in the latter country which obviously makes them a production partner if not a development partner
If we look from this perspective, Rafale would not use foreign engine and wait for it's Snecma engine !! You design you aircraft with chosen engine but if you can produce an engine with better specs in same dimension. It is good for your aircraft. It may affect cf of whole aircraft a bit,with software changes you can handle it! Since 200-300 kg increase -decrease change with some 20-50 cm cg change of engine , will not affect much cg of whole aircraft ,but maybe 1- 5 cm only!!
 
If we look from this perspective, Rafale would not use foreign engine and wait for it's Snecma engine !! You design you aircraft with chosen engine but if you can produce an engine with better specs in same dimension. It is good for your aircraft. It may affect cf of whole aircraft a bit,with software changes you can handle it! Since 200-300 kg increase -decrease change with some 20-50 cm cg change of engine , will not affect much cg of whole aircraft ,but maybe 1- 5 cm only!!
Are you seriously comparing the technical prowess of a country like France & a company like SNECMA / SAFRAN with Turkiye & TEI respectively?

SAFRAN & its predecessor have pretty much designed all the TFs that have gone into French Air Force ( Armee de l'air) since WW-2. Ditto for Dassault as far as design & mfg of French Fighter Aircrafts go.

For more insight check on the dimensions of the M-88 & the GE F-404 TF & the thrust generated & you'd know the difference between a TAI & a Dassault or a TEI or a SAFRAN.

What's Turkiye's & TEI's track record on this? Or even TAI's experience in designing complex modern day state of the art Fighter Aircrafts? How many 4th Gen INDIGENOUS Fighter Aircrafts or Turbo Fans have you come up with & pls don't bring in the F-16 or the GE F-100 TFs you're mfg locally .

We've been mfg the Su-30 MKI along with the 130-140 KN AL-31 TF locally since slightly more than 2 decades here whereby over a period of time we've successfully indigenised almost all the sub assemblies & components which go into the MKI except the Titanium blocs & certain other parts which we're obliged to get from Russia because of contractual obligations .

Yet we never claim we've mastered the tech to indigenously design & build a 4.5th Gen FA or a 4th Gen TF before realising the LCA, though obviously these programs played a huge part in that indigenousization program but the entire process has taken us time .

You've barely started out & you're straight away talking of realising a 5th Gen FA alongside a 5th Gen TF with no prior experience in building either a Fighter Aircraft or a TF.

You've only recently gone about designing a LIFT - the Hurjet & smaller TFs with Ivchenko with most of their offerings not surprisingly mirrored in your output of smaller TFs.
 
Are you seriously comparing the technical prowess of a country like France & a company like SNECMA / SAFRAN with Turkiye & TEI respectively?

SAFRAN & its predecessor have pretty much designed all the TFs that have gone into French Air Force ( Armee de l'air) since WW-2. Ditto for Dassault as far as design & mfg of French Fighter Aircrafts go.

For more insight check on the dimensions of the M-88 & the GE F-404 TF & the thrust generated & you'd know the difference between a TAI & a Dassault or a TEI or a SAFRAN.

What's Turkiye's & TEI's track record on this? Or even TAI's experience in designing complex modern day state of the art Fighter Aircrafts? How many 4th Gen INDIGENOUS Fighter Aircrafts or Turbo Fans have you come up with & pls don't bring in the F-16 or the GE F-100 TFs you're mfg locally .

We've been mfg the Su-30 MKI along with the 130-140 KN AL-31 TF locally since slightly more than 2 decades here whereby over a period of time we've successfully indigenised almost all the sub assemblies & components which go into the MKI except the Tutaniuy blocs & certain other parts which we're obliged to get from Russia because of contractual obligations .

Yet we never claim we've mastered the tech to indigenously design & build a 4.5th Gen FA or a 4th Gen TF though obviously these programs played a huge part in that indigenousization program but the entire process has take us time .

You've barely started out & you're straight away talking of realising a 5th Gen FA alongside a 5th Gen TF with no prior experience in building either a Fighter Aircraft or a TF.

You've only recently gone about designing a LIFT the Hurjet & smaller TFs with Ivchenko with most of their offerings not surprisingly mirrored in your output of smaller TFs.

What is the relation with technology capacity?? You asked cg change and it's affect on aircraft!! I mentioned snecma since they do not have exactly same cg and weight!! If you can fit your engine on the designed aircraft.you choose your own one and go with it , cg change due to engine change is insignificant!! This is what I say as a response to your reply!!
From video that your directors in air force, gtre etc. , India still lacks many areas to produce a complete jet on its own!! Hence you can not produce like of your under license produced engines!! unlike Türkiye which can produce f-110 like engine in a small time like 4-5 years!!
 
And , for Turkish Kaan engine, it is said that it will have less compressor stage but more turbine stage compared to f-110. Even though it has less compressor stage, compression ratio will be on par with f-110. With extra turbine section -(maybe higher turbine temp), it will be able to produce 36k pounds thrust. There will be weight change but the size will be almost same with f-110.
 
Baykara has signed deal to export both akıncı and tb-3. It seems Baykara also will set up a factory in Indonesia to produce them in Indonesia. Additionally, Indonesia is looking for LHD ships as well. Turkish shipyards may also get LHD project ,but it is not certain yet.
Additionally, roketsan signed a deal to produce some missiles in Indonesia.


View: https://twitter.com/T_Nblty/status/1889603086601101694?t=e8Wsq0HH-l3Lj7zQ2jI5ng&s=19



View: https://twitter.com/briefnewsforyou/status/1889637409802813693?t=ezoo0xpe49bKtvoMtDAvkw&s=19
 
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Turkish bvraam program gökdoğan has proven it's capabilities one more time. This is probably serial production acceptance tests shots. TÜBİTAK sage completed all tests of air to air missiles ,gökdoğan and Bozdoğan, 1,5 years ago and signed a deal to produce 25 missiles from each as initial production. So this test is possibly for the acceptance of that order.




View: https://twitter.com/T_Nblty/status/1889602384810180660?t=UyOYfcL30qVn-LMr1YUcYQ&s=19
 
First test firings of goksur air defense system which will be used as close air defense system.
When you look closely,it has foldable tail fins


View: https://twitter.com/T_Nblty/status/1891452812766105722?t=WVmc1FSG_vrX9ANrdhOhgA&s=19



ASELSAN GÖKSUR CIWS: A Cutting-Edge Naval Defense Solution

GOKSUR001.jpg (176.68KiB)

The GÖKSUR Close-In Weapon System (CIWS), developed by ASELSAN, represents the latest in naval defense technology, offering critical protection against various modern maritime threats. This system is designed to be the last line of defense for naval vessels, providing rapid, precise firepower to neutralize incoming threats such as anti-ship missiles, fast-moving surface crafts, helicopters, and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). The GÖKSUR CIWS is an essential component for modern naval fleets, delivering enhanced survivability in increasingly complex battlefields.

Key Features of GÖKSUR CIWS

Stabilized Gun Turret :
One of the standout features of the GÖKSUR CIWS is its highly stabilized gun turret. Stability is crucial for maintaining precision in naval combat, particularly when ships are in motion or in rough sea conditions. This stabilization ensures that the system can accurately engage fast-moving targets even under challenging environmental conditions. The stabilization technology allows the gun to remain focused on the target, minimizing the chance of missed shots and maximizing the system’s effectiveness.

Dual Ammunition Capability : GÖKSUR offers a unique advantage with its ability to switch between two types of ammunition: High-Explosive Incendiary (HEI) and Airburst Ammunition (ATOM). The HEI rounds are highly effective against lightly armored aerial threats and fast-moving surface vessels, while the ATOM rounds are designed to explode in proximity to the target, enhancing lethality against small, hard-to-hit objects like UAVs and incoming missiles. This dual capability allows the system to adapt to the specific threat it faces, significantly increasing the chances of neutralizing the threat before it causes damage.

Automatic Target Tracking and Engagement : GÖKSUR is equipped with advanced target tracking and engagement capabilities. The system integrates radar and electro-optical sensors that provide real-time data on incoming threats. Once a target is detected, GÖKSUR can autonomously track and engage it without human intervention. This autonomy is crucial for a CIWS, as threats in modern naval warfare—such as missiles can travel at extremely high speeds, leaving little time for manual responses. The automated operation ensures that the system reacts swiftly, engaging threats in seconds.

3D Search Radar (Optional Feature) : For enhanced situational awareness, GÖKSUR can be optionally equipped with a 3D search radar. This radar provides detailed data on the surrounding airspace and surface, allowing for more accurate detection and tracking of potential threats. The 3D radar is especially useful in environments where multiple threats may approach simultaneously from different directions. By providing early warning and accurate target data, the radar enhances GÖKSUR’s ability to intercept and neutralize incoming projectiles or hostile crafts.

Fully Autonomous Operation : GÖKSUR operates with minimal human input, making it highly reliable in combat situations. Once the system is armed and set to automatic mode, it can independently detect, track, and engage threats. The autonomy of the system reduces the risk of human error and ensures a faster response time, which is critical when dealing with high-speed threats like anti-ship missiles. This feature makes GÖKSUR an indispensable part of the ship’s overall defense strategy, especially in situations where multiple threats are approaching simultaneously.

Integration with Combat Management Systems : Another major advantage of GÖKSUR is its seamless integration with a ship’s Combat Management System (CMS). This integration allows GÖKSUR to work in conjunction with other onboard sensors, weapons, and defense systems to create a unified, coordinated response to incoming threats. By sharing data and working as part of a larger defense network, GÖKSUR ensures that a naval vessel’s defensive capabilities are maximized.

Versatility in Threat Engagement : GÖKSUR is capable of engaging a wide range of targets, making it one of the most versatile CIWS platforms available. It is particularly effective against:
  • Anti-ship missiles : The primary threat that GÖKSUR is designed to neutralize, given their speed and destructive power.
  • Helicopters and Fighters : The system’s tracking and engagement capabilities make it effective against low-flying aircraft.
  • UAVs : With the rise of drones in modern warfare, GÖKSUR’s ability to engage small, fast-moving aerial targets is a significant advantage.
  • Asymmetric Surface Naval Threats : This includes fast boats or other small, agile crafts that might pose a danger to larger naval vessels.
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Advantages of GÖKSUR CIWS

Enhanced Flexibility and Adaptability :
GÖKSUR’s ability to switch between HEI and ATOM ammunition, combined with its broad range of target types, makes it highly adaptable to various combat scenarios. This flexibility ensures that naval forces can rely on GÖKSUR to effectively counter multiple types of threats, from missiles to drones to surface boats.

Reliability in Autonomous Defense : One of the most important aspects of any CIWS is its reliability under pressure. GÖKSUR’s autonomous operation, combined with its fast response time, ensures that it can reliably protect ships even when human operators are overwhelmed or in high-stress situations. The system’s fully autonomous mode eliminates the risk of delay in threat engagement, which can be critical when defending against fast-moving projectiles.

Integration with National Defense Infrastructure : As part of ASELSAN’s broader range of defense products, GÖKSUR is designed to be easily integrated with other defense systems produced by ASELSAN or used within allied defense networks. This ensures compatibility with other platforms and enhances overall mission readiness.

Cost-Effective Naval Defense Solution : ASELSAN has earned a reputation for producing high-quality, cost-effective defense systems, and GÖKSUR is no exception. The system offers cutting-edge technology at a competitive price point, making it an attractive option for countries seeking to enhance their naval defense capabilities without the cost of more expensive Western alternatives. Additionally, the system's modularity means that upgrades and modifications can be implemented over time without the need for complete replacement.

Scalability for Different Naval Platforms : GÖKSUR is designed to be scalable, allowing it to be deployed on a variety of platforms, from smaller patrol boats to larger frigates and destroyers. This scalability increases its utility across different types of naval forces, making it suitable for both blue-water and littoral operations.

ASELSAN’s GÖKSUR CIWS is a powerful and versatile defense system that offers a critical layer of protection for naval vessels against a variety of modern threats. With features like dual ammunition capability, autonomous operation, and seamless integration with combat management systems, GÖKSUR stands out as a highly effective and cost-efficient solution for navies worldwide. Its ability to engage a wide range of threats, combined with its advanced targeting and tracking technologies, ensures that GÖKSUR will play a key role in safeguarding naval assets in high-threat environments
 
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Further variants of goksur air defense system;

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Aselsan unveils the Göksur 100-N Point Missile Defence System​




Already present in the naval close-in weapon systems arena with its 35 mm Gökdeniz CIWS, Aselsan is unveiling its longer-range point missile defence system, the Göksur 100-N​

A new system is being added to the Aselsan portfolio in the area of naval self-defence, the Göksur 100-N, which was unveiled at the 2024 edition of Euronaval, the Paris exhibition dedicated to naval systems. The new missile-based system is designed to add a longer-range layer of defence to the Gökdeniz CIWS, which effective range against provided by its twin 35 mm guns and by the airburst munition, also developed by Aselsan, is around 4 km.

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The new Göksur 100-N leverages the development made by Tübitak-Sage on air-to-air missiles; at IDEF 2017 the Defence Industries Research and Development Institute unveiled two missiles developed within the Göktuğ Project, a within visual range missile with infrared seeker aimed at replacing the AIM-9 Sidewinder, the Bozdoğan, and a medium range beyond-line-of-sight weapon, the Gökdoğan, fitted with an RF seeker, which will replace the AIM-120 AMRAAM.

The new Aselsan point missile defence system (PMDS) is based on a surface-to-air version of the Bozdoğan. The weapon retains the dual-colour Imaging Infra-Red (IIR) seeker which allows off-boresight lock-on and guides the missile in the terminal phase of the engagement; most of the data of the original version should be maintained, such as missile diameter, 160 mm, length, 3,300 mm, and mass, 140 kg. The same should apply to the solid propellant rocket motor, and to the blast/fragmentation warhead, the missile being fitted with a laser proximity fuse.

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To allow the Bozdoğan to be launched from a canister rather than from a rail, the system used when deployed from aircraft, Tübitak-Sage and Aselsan technicians worked on a version with folding wings. EDR On-Line understood that the new variant of the missile has been fitted with a data-link, which should allow mid-course guidance based on data provided by the ship sensors, before the IIR seeker locks onto the target.

Compared to the 25 km range declared for the air-to-air version, the surface-to-air version used in the new PMDS is 15 km. “The data link is an important feature as it provides a mid-course update capability, but even most important is the AI-supported fire control system inside the missile, a machine learning algorithm considering the trajectory of the missile in every scenario that improves the system performances thanks to the feedback,” Ahmet Akyol, Aselsan’s President and CEO told EDR On-Line.

The Göksur 100-N hosts 20 missiles, in two pods each one with 10 missiles, fitted on the sides of a central structure containing actuators and electronics. However, this is only one of the proposed configurations. “There are three versions of our PMDS; one is standalone, which is fitted with its own radar and electro optics; a second one is based on fix inclined launchers, which exploits the platforms existing on the naval platform; and finally, we have the vertical launch version,” the CEO detailed.

click on image to enlarge
The model of the trainable PMDS was not fitted with radar and optronics, while another model was showing canister integrated in the hull as well as some outside the hull, those being in the vertical position, however it is clear that they can also be installed in an inclined position. EDR On-Line understood that those launchers can be installed all over the platform, not necessarily all together, as each canister is single. As for the trainable version, also this can be adapted to customers’ needs, for example a scaled-down launcher with a limited number of missiles, say five plus five, might be envisaged for being installed on smaller naval vessels, the current 20-missile version having a mass of around 5 tonnes without missiles, these adding around 3 tonnes to the system.

The Göksur 100-N is an ongoing programme, and Aselsan aims at having a first system firing before year end. The system should be available as a product in two-rear time. The PMDS proposed by Aselsan aims firstly at defeating sea-skimming missiles, incoming loitering munitions as well as medium sized drones remaining of course part of the Göksur 100-N targets set. EDR On-Line understood that Aselsan is developing a new AESA radar for the new naval defence system stand-alone version, that should be announced soon.
 

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