Turkiye: News, Discussions & Updates.

[yasincsoy]

Basically, f-110 engine variant which is Kaan block 10 will be 4,5+ generation since it will not be able to super cruise with f-110 engines. Kaan needs an engine almost like f-22 f-119 engine. However, In the western market there is no available one like that. So closer to that engine and one with tei has experience chosen.
Kaan Block 20 and on will have national 36k pounds engine.
Maybe block 30 will have tvc as well.

 

[yasincsoy]

Kale jet engines,
It has ktj1750 used on çakır cruise missile
Ktj3200 used on som missile and atmaca missile
Ktj3700 used on atmaca land missile
Arat engine to be used on gezgin missile
And New Biga series turbofan engines

To complement som missile engines which were using french engine, a domestic engine project started with kale group in 2013. After 7-8 years, they have finally completed and overcome all hardships and produced ktj3200 engine for som missile. Same french engine were being used on atmaca missile, hence atmaca missile also started to use domestick ktj3200 engines. In the last 4 years, kale jet produced 2 more engines which are ktj1750 and ktj3700. It also signed arat engine project with ssb. Arat engine will be used on gezgin cruise missile.
Kale jet also working small turbofan engines to be used on missiles and maybe on APU.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oDNQuTpSzU0

 

[Azaad]

At first , it is planned to have an engine like the designed one. Since there is no available one in the market. It is chosen to go with f-110 engine which tei produced under license for years.
36k pounds will be produced with same dimensions like f-110 engine. Currently japanese x9 engine is the one almost matches with our design but Japan is not exporting or mass producing.
Kaan needs at least 22-23k pounds of dry thrust to super cruise!! Hence it will have 22-26k dry thrust and 36k wet thrust.
F-110 like engine is the one we can produce in several years. Advanced one is the one we are working.

This isn't merely a question of increasing 30 KN per TF apart from the obvious issue of generating the kind of thrust within the same dimensions .

This is also about major redesigning to accommodate an extra LP / HP stage which in turn increases the weight of the newly realised TF which will obviously be more than the F-100. With it comes the extra burden of a changed CoG , followed by a change in Flight Control Laws etc .

For perspective have a look at the TFX project . That seems at least on paper a well thought out & well fleshed out project. Incidentally RoK will be developing their own indigenous TF too which should be analogous to the GE F-414 TF which they've deployed aboard the Boramae , with an output perhaps > 100 KN of the F-414 , to be around 110 -120 KN .

S.Korea’s Hanwha, Doosan to develop fighter jet engines - KED Global

Hanwha Aerospace Co., South Korea’s top defense manufacturer, and Doosan Enerbility Co., a major local power plant builder, are set to develop engines fo

www.kedglobal.com

Any casual observer wouldn't be convinced with the kind of explanations you're giving. Anyway all the best for your venture . I'm sure the world will be looking at it with great interest especially India now that Turkiye & Paxtan have officially announced joint production of the KAAN in the latter country which obviously makes them a production partner if not a development partner

 

[yasincsoy]

This isn't merely a question of increasing 30 KN per TF apart from the obvious issue of generating the kind of thrust within the same dimensions .

This is also about major redesigning to accommodate an extra LP / HP stage which in turn increases the weight of the newly realised TF which will obviously be more than the F-100. With it comes the extra burden of a changed CoG , followed by a change in Flight Control Laws etc .

For perspective have a look at the TFX project . That seems at least on paper a well thought out & well fleshed out project. Incidentally RoK will be developing their own indigenous TF too which should be analogous to the GE F-414 TF with an output perhaps > 100 KN to be around 110 -120 KN .

S.Korea’s Hanwha, Doosan to develop fighter jet engines - KED Global

Hanwha Aerospace Co., South Korea’s top defense manufacturer, and Doosan Enerbility Co., a major local power plant builder, are set to develop engines fo

www.kedglobal.com

Any casual observer wouldn't be convinced with the kind of explanations you're giving. Anyway all the best for your venture . I'm sure the world will be looking at it with great interest especially India now that Turkiye & Paxtan have officially announced joint production of the KAAN in the latter country which obviously makes them a production partner if not a development partner

Believe it or not, we are in better position than Korea in aero engines. Since we have everything ready for years. I am not sure whether Korea produced single crystal blades or not. We have that tech since 2017. If f-110 engine was the original need, it will not be hurdle for us to get f-110 like engine in 4-5 years especially after getting third gen single crystal turbine blades.
Türkiye was improving it's manpower for engine projects for the last 15 years. It brought many Turkish experts to Turkish universities from ge , rolls Royce and safran. They are also working as advisor for these projects beside increasing engineer number

 

[yasincsoy]

According the TEI General Manager, study conducted in 2014 revealed areas where Turkish industry did not have the means to produce certain components. By 2017, those areas were worked on and component production capabilities were achieved.

Red Dots - Are where Turkish industry now has production capabilities. Meaning, all mechanical engine components can be produced in Turkey since 2017.
Untitled-2.jpg


Red dot areas where tei used to not have production capability in 2014.green dots tei used to have production technology. After 2017, all red areas production capability gained. In Turkish it says above of the chart we have design capacity ,but do we have production capability? In below of the chart it says as of 2017 all areas in the red ,tei gained production technology

https://defencehub.live/attachments/untitled-2-jpg.7995/

 

[yasincsoy]

This isn't merely a question of increasing 30 KN per TF apart from the obvious issue of generating the kind of thrust within the same dimensions .

This is also about major redesigning to accommodate an extra LP / HP stage which in turn increases the weight of the newly realised TF which will obviously be more than the F-100. With it comes the extra burden of a changed CoG , followed by a change in Flight Control Laws etc .

For perspective have a look at the TFX project . That seems at least on paper a well thought out & well fleshed out project. Incidentally RoK will be developing their own indigenous TF too which should be analogous to the GE F-414 TF which they've deployed aboard the Boramae , with an output perhaps > 100 KN of the F-414 , to be around 110 -120 KN .

S.Korea’s Hanwha, Doosan to develop fighter jet engines - KED Global

Hanwha Aerospace Co., South Korea’s top defense manufacturer, and Doosan Enerbility Co., a major local power plant builder, are set to develop engines fo

www.kedglobal.com

Any casual observer wouldn't be convinced with the kind of explanations you're giving. Anyway all the best for your venture . I'm sure the world will be looking at it with great interest especially India now that Turkiye & Paxtan have officially announced joint production of the KAAN in the latter country which obviously makes them a production partner if not a development partner

If we look from this perspective, Rafale would not use foreign engine and wait for it's Snecma engine !! You design you aircraft with chosen engine but if you can produce an engine with better specs in same dimension. It is good for your aircraft. It may affect cf of whole aircraft a bit,with software changes you can handle it! Since 200-300 kg increase -decrease change with some 20-50 cm cg change of engine , will not affect much cg of whole aircraft ,but maybe 1- 5 cm only!!

 

[Azaad]

If we look from this perspective, Rafale would not use foreign engine and wait for it's Snecma engine !! You design you aircraft with chosen engine but if you can produce an engine with better specs in same dimension. It is good for your aircraft. It may affect cf of whole aircraft a bit,with software changes you can handle it! Since 200-300 kg increase -decrease change with some 20-50 cm cg change of engine , will not affect much cg of whole aircraft ,but maybe 1- 5 cm only!!

Are you seriously comparing the technical prowess of a country like France & a company like SNECMA / SAFRAN with Turkiye & TEI respectively?

SAFRAN & its predecessor have pretty much designed all the TFs that have gone into French Air Force ( Armee de l'air) since WW-2. Ditto for Dassault as far as design & mfg of French Fighter Aircrafts go.

For more insight check on the dimensions of the M-88 & the GE F-404 TF & the thrust generated & you'd know the difference between a TAI & a Dassault or a TEI or a SAFRAN.

What's Turkiye's & TEI's track record on this? Or even TAI's experience in designing complex modern day state of the art Fighter Aircrafts? How many 4th Gen INDIGENOUS Fighter Aircrafts or Turbo Fans have you come up with & pls don't bring in the F-16 or the GE F-100 TFs you're mfg locally .

We've been mfg the Su-30 MKI along with the 130-140 KN AL-31 TF locally since slightly more than 2 decades here whereby over a period of time we've successfully indigenised almost all the sub assemblies & components which go into the MKI except the Titanium blocs & certain other parts which we're obliged to get from Russia because of contractual obligations .

Yet we never claim we've mastered the tech to indigenously design & build a 4.5th Gen FA or a 4th Gen TF before realising the LCA, though obviously these programs played a huge part in that indigenousization program but the entire process has taken us time .

You've barely started out & you're straight away talking of realising a 5th Gen FA alongside a 5th Gen TF with no prior experience in building either a Fighter Aircraft or a TF.

You've only recently gone about designing a LIFT - the Hurjet & smaller TFs with Ivchenko with most of their offerings not surprisingly mirrored in your output of smaller TFs.

 

[yasincsoy]

Are you seriously comparing the technical prowess of a country like France & a company like SNECMA / SAFRAN with Turkiye & TEI respectively?

SAFRAN & its predecessor have pretty much designed all the TFs that have gone into French Air Force ( Armee de l'air) since WW-2. Ditto for Dassault as far as design & mfg of French Fighter Aircrafts go.

For more insight check on the dimensions of the M-88 & the GE F-404 TF & the thrust generated & you'd know the difference between a TAI & a Dassault or a TEI or a SAFRAN.

What's Turkiye's & TEI's track record on this? Or even TAI's experience in designing complex modern day state of the art Fighter Aircrafts? How many 4th Gen INDIGENOUS Fighter Aircrafts or Turbo Fans have you come up with & pls don't bring in the F-16 or the GE F-100 TFs you're mfg locally .

We've been mfg the Su-30 MKI along with the 130-140 KN AL-31 TF locally since slightly more than 2 decades here whereby over a period of time we've successfully indigenised almost all the sub assemblies & components which go into the MKI except the Tutaniuy blocs & certain other parts which we're obliged to get from Russia because of contractual obligations .

Yet we never claim we've mastered the tech to indigenously design & build a 4.5th Gen FA or a 4th Gen TF though obviously these programs played a huge part in that indigenousization program but the entire process has take us time .

You've barely started out & you're straight away talking of realising a 5th Gen FA alongside a 5th Gen TF with no prior experience in building either a Fighter Aircraft or a TF.

You've only recently gone about designing a LIFT the Hurjet & smaller TFs with Ivchenko with most of their offerings not surprisingly mirrored in your output of smaller TFs.

What is the relation with technology capacity?? You asked cg change and it's affect on aircraft!! I mentioned snecma since they do not have exactly same cg and weight!! If you can fit your engine on the designed aircraft.you choose your own one and go with it , cg change due to engine change is insignificant!! This is what I say as a response to your reply!!
From video that your directors in air force, gtre etc. , India still lacks many areas to produce a complete jet on its own!! Hence you can not produce like of your under license produced engines!! unlike Türkiye which can produce f-110 like engine in a small time like 4-5 years!!

 

[yasincsoy]

And , for Turkish Kaan engine, it is said that it will have less compressor stage but more turbine stage compared to f-110. Even though it has less compressor stage, compression ratio will be on par with f-110. With extra turbine section -(maybe higher turbine temp), it will be able to produce 36k pounds thrust. There will be weight change but the size will be almost same with f-110.