Indian Politics and Democracy

[Nicky]

Google's AI overview tells me that total MSP expenditure went from Rs 1.06 lakh crores in FY 2014-15 to Rs 2.28 lakh crore in FY 2022-23. If true, this is exactly in line with nominal GDP numbers and shows that the figures are plateauing. Dafuq are you yapping about?

View attachment 33384

And this figure likely includes pulses and veggies like other members have pointed out.

See? Even I can use Google's AI overview, no biggie.

I used three laughing emojis, is that intellectual enough, @Nicky ?

Are you truly retarded? Do you not know how to compute ratio?

Compute the ratio between expenditure in 2015 and 2023 vs the nominal GDP in those years.

2015,
Expenditure = 1.06
GDP = 2.1
Ratio = ~0.5

2023,
Expenditure = 2.28
GDP = 3.57
Ratio = ~0.64

Is this a plateau?

 

[Suryavanshi]

True, which is the government expanding subsidies beyond MSP. That makes it even worse.

MIS is not the same as MSP, read the article that you have quoted properly.

The Market Intervention Scheme (MIS) is not an automatic or mandatory policy; rather, it is implemented upon request from a State or Union Territory (UT) government. The central government steps in only when market prices of perishable agricultural and horticultural commodities drop by at least 10% compared to the previous season.

Additionally, the State/UT government must agree to bear 50% of the losses incurred (or 25% for North-Eastern states) for the scheme to be activated. The intervention is temporary, lasting until prices stabilize above the Market Intervention Price (MIP).

So, while the government has the framework in place, it does not have an obligation to intervene unless a State/UT requests it and meets the cost-sharing conditions

We have clear data on MSP increasing, even as a ratio of GDP from government itself.

Economic Survey 2025: Food subsidy doubles in five years, monthly expenditure also increases

Food subsidies have doubled in 2023 compared to 2019, before COVID-19, according to the Economic Survey 2024-25 tabled in Parliament on January 31, 2025.The doc

www.downtoearth.org.in

Do you want to kill these people?
Industrial output hasn't caught up to pre covid levels, population in BIMARU has increased and the same haven't returned to factories like before. How do you think these people survive all while a global trade war is ongoing.

I don't know why people want to argue direct data?

Data? You only ever pick up tangential data like you did for MIS rather than MSP and dance around the same.

 

[Nicky]

Data? You only ever pick up tangential data like you did for MIS rather than MSP and dance around the same.

I'm picking up direct expenditure reported by the government and computing as a ratio of GDP. How is this tangential?

2015,
Expenditure = 1.06
GDP = 2.1
Ratio = ~0.5

2023,
Expenditure = 2.28
GDP = 3.57
Ratio
= ~0.64

 

[crazywithmath]

Are you truly retarded? Do you not know how to compute ratio?

Compute the ratio between expenditure in 2015 and 2023 vs the nominal GDP in those years.

I have done in the previous post. You are embarassing yourself.

Rs 1.06 lakh crore divided by effective exchange rate (USDINR) of 54.78 returns 0.019 trillion US$. Dividing it by the nominal GDP (1.8 trillion US$) yields 0.018.

Rs 2.28 lakh crore divided by effective exchange rate USDINR of 74 yields 0.03 trillion US$. Dividing it by the nominal GDP (3.35 trillion US$) returns 0.008.

MSP expenditure as a % of nominal GDP has gone down.

Like I said, no amount of retarded cope and seethe would hide realities.

 

[Nicky]

Rs 1.06 lakh crore divided by effective exchange rate (USDINR) of 54.78 returns 0.019 trillion US$. Dividing it by the nominal GDP (1.8 trillion US$ yields 0.018.

Rs 2.28 lakh crore divided by effective exchange rate USDINR of 74 yields 0.03 trillion US$. Dividing it by the nominal GDP (3.35 trillion US$) returns 0.008.

MSP expenditure as a % of nominal GDP has gone down.

More red herring. Exchange rate varies throughout the year.

Do it in inr to remove conversions.

So 2015,
Expenditure = 1.06
Real GDP = 113
Ratio = 0.009

2023,
Expenditure = 2.28
Real GDP = 173
Ratio = 0.013

Now what?

Still gone up.

 

[Suryavanshi]

I'm picking up direct expenditure reported by the government and computing as a ratio of GDP. How is this tangential?

2015,
Expenditure = 1.06
GDP = 2.1
Ratio = ~0.5

2023,
Expenditure = 2.28
GDP = 3.57
Ratio
= ~0.64

2015?
Did you forget corona happend 4 years ago?
The cost of food subsidy shot up those years and has continued to decreasee ever since than.

Labor participation in agri has increased while decreasing in other sectors. Do you want these now jobless people to go on about without any help from gormint?

Your data would have made sense hadn't there been an Anamoly during covid which disturbed our economy and increased people's dependence on gormint support.

 

[crazywithmath]

Rs 1.06 lakh crore divided by effective exchange rate (USDINR) of 54.78 returns 0.019 trillion US$. Dividing it by the nominal GDP (1.8 trillion US$) yields 0.018.

Rs 2.28 lakh crore divided by effective exchange rate USDINR of 74 yields 0.03 trillion US$. Dividing it by the nominal GDP (3.35 trillion US$) returns 0.008.

MSP expenditure as a % of nominal GDP has gone down.

Like I said, no amount of retarded cope and seethe would hide realities.

@ezsasa

Interesting thing I found out amid an e-lafda, MSP expenditure as a % of nominal GDP has gone down slightly in the past decade. All these annadatas chimping out has definite political economy causes.

Also, FCI is receiving, the undisputed champion of PSU led corruption, is receiving capital infusion worth Rs 10k crore. Is this accounted within the purview of food subsidies? Would explain the increased RE of food subsidies vis-a-vis BE of FY 2024-25.

Centre infuses equity of ₹10,700 crore in Food Corporation of India

CCEA approves ₹10,700 crore equity infusion in FCI to support farmers and strengthen India's agrarian economy.

www.thehindu.com

 

[crazywithmath]

More red herring. Exchange rate varies throughout the year.

Do it in inr to remove conversions.

So 2015,
Expenditure = 1.06
GDP = 135
Ratio = 0.0078

2023,
Expenditure = 2.28
GDP = 173
Ratio = 0.013

Now what?

Still gone up.

Nominal GDP at the end of FY 2022-23 was worth 272.41 lakh crore in INR terms. Nominal GDP at then end of FY 2014-15 was worth 125.41 lakh crore in INR terms.

Do you have an iota of shame left?

 

[Nicky]

Nominal GDP at the end of FY 2022-23 was worth 272.41 lakh crore in INR terms. Nominal GDP at then end of FY 2014-15 was worth 125.41 lakh crore in INR terms.

Do you have an iota of shame left?

Comparing with real GDP as it adjusts for inflation:

2015: 1.06 / 113 = 0.009
2023: 2.28 / 173 = 0.013

 

[crazywithmath]

Comparing with real GDP as it adjusts for inflation:

2015: 1.06 / 113 = 0.009
2023: 2.28 / 173 = 0.013

Now, this is a level of retarded brainfart I cannot match, damn! Only the denominator is in real Rupee terms - I cannot even, lmao.

 

[Nicky]

Now, this is a level of retarded brainfart I cannot match, damn! Only the denominator is in real Rupee terms - I cannot even, lmao.

Source for this claim?

 

[crazywithmath]

Source for this claim?

What source? You took the MSP expenditure at face value but used the nominal GDP in real INR terms to compare - the numerators and the denominators are not on the same platform.

Also, econ indicators are typically calculated as a % of nominal GDP - usually on US$ terms. That is standard practice for the likes of World Bank, IMF, UNCTAD et al.

 

[Nicky]

What source? You took the MSP expenditure at face value but used the nominal GDP in real INR terms to compare - the numerators and the denominators are not on the same platform.

This coming from the retard that tried to find the ratio of tonnes to GDP.

 

[crazywithmath]

This coming from the retard that tried to find the ratio of tonnes to GDP.

Excellent deflection.

Hats off!

I did it cuz I could not find MSP expenditure data on agri ministry website. A proxy indicator of sort.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Comparing with real GDP as it adjusts for inflation:

2015: 1.06 / 113 = 0.009
2023: 2.28 / 173 = 0.013

Can you elaborate how you adjust the respective years GDP accounting for inflation and also account that Base years was not updated for a very long time before 2024?

 

[Nicky]

Can you elaborate how you adjust the respective years GDP accounting for inflation and also account that Base years was not updated for a very long time before 2024?

Both base year 2011-12 I beleive.

 

[crazywithmath]

This coming from the retard that tried to find the ratio of tonnes to GDP.

In other words,

Procurement at MSP has declined in volume terms in agreement with increase in GDP.

Procurement at MSP has declined on value terms in agreement with increase in GDP.

Conclusion: Total W for Indian fiscal.

 

[Nicky]

In other words,

Procurement at MSP has declined in volume terms in agreement with increase in GDP.

Procurement at MSP has declined on value terms in agreement with increase in GDP.

Conclusion: Total W for Indian fiscal.

Volume cannot be taken as ratio of GDP that's retarded. You truly demonstrated your level there.

In money terms, it hasn't declined in terms of money, even if you take it at nominal and assume procurement doesn't facor in inflation.

It's essentially stayed flat, your claim of decrease will still be false.

2014-15: 1.06 / 126.54 = 0.00837
2022-23: 2.28 / 269.5 = 0.0084

An 1 % increase.

Also,.based on articles quotes earlier, it has increased post 22-23.

 

[Suryavanshi]

At the end of the day it all started because Nicky is arguing against freebies across party lines. CrazyWithMath is arguing that freebies are fine as long as they take a back seat as absolute pecent spent decreases every year.

 

[ezsasa]

@ezsasa

Interesting thing I found out amid an e-lafda, MSP expenditure as a % of nominal GDP has gone down slightly in the past decade. All these annadatas chimping out has definite political economy causes.

Also, FCI is receiving, the undisputed champion of PSU led corruption, is receiving capital infusion worth Rs 10k crore. Is this accounted within the purview of food subsidies? Would explain the increased RE of food subsidies vis-a-vis BE of FY 2024-25.

Centre infuses equity of ₹10,700 crore in Food Corporation of India

CCEA approves ₹10,700 crore equity infusion in FCI to support farmers and strengthen India's agrarian economy.

www.thehindu.com

yeah, was watching the show ...

expanded on a table i did earlier when this convo started. used GDP current prices directly in INR (in case it helps)
23-24 data is incomplete but can see the trend.

Year	Food Subsidy to FCI (Crore INR)	Union Budget (Crore INR)	% of Subsidy to Union Budget	GDP Current Prices (Crore INR)	% of Food Subsidy to GDP
2013-14	89,740.02	15,59,000	5.76%	1,12,33,522	0.80%
2014-15	1,13,171.16	16,64,000	6.80%	1,24,67,959	0.91%
2015-16	1,30,672.96	17,91,000	7.30%	1,37,71,874	0.95%
2016-17	1,39,981.69	19,75,000	7.09%	1,53,91,669	0.91%
2017-18	1,47,765.65	21,42,000	6.90%	1,70,95,005	0.86%
2018-19	1,71,127.49	23,15,000	7.39%	1,90,10,164	0.90%
2019-20	1,64,108.35	26,86,000	6.11%	2,03,51,013	0.81%
2020-21	5,29,690.77	35,17,000	15.06%	1,98,00,914	2.67%
2021-22	2,88,718.54	37,91,000	7.62%	2,36,64,514	1.22%
2022-23	2,72,501.7	41,95,000	6.50%	2,72,41,219	1.00%
2023-24	1,47,042.05	46,15,000	3.19%	2,96,57,711	0.50%

on this FCI capital infusion thing, there is a history to it. up until 2014, FCI wallahs were taking commercial debt for upkeep for some reason, which is the same amount as this 10k crore. memory is a bit hazy on this now, will have to a bit of digging.
no, this does not come under food subsidy head, should be under revenue expenditure of FCI. these fellows manage large real estate.