AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (23 Viewers)

[eastern_bhartiya]

I for once is astonished how it works in West regarding Military acquisitions. The thing that blowed my mind is US Congress literally orders the DoD to procure Product-X for this amount of numbers or limit Product-Y for this amount of numbers or run the production line of Product-Z for 10 more years. DoD and Pentagon should implement that immediately after that.

How would that work here? Is it only passive orders? Can't govt ask them to order 100 Tejas and so? Why not these Forces follow Western model? Afterall Western gear is better right? Why not import ideologies, methodolgies, administrative frameworks also? What we effectively got is a quite "Abyssal Stare" model. The MoD here showcases generals products and they won't order it but they send proposals like wanting 3000 F-35s.

US senate is quite unique in its powers for example it actually has veto on foreign treaties, assignment of ambassadors and diplomats.

what we actually, need is block development model. in Block development, you divide the requirement in multiple sections and try to achieve on each section on a incremental basis, meaning say GSQR has 10 requitements , but as soon as product has like 6 requirements are met, you need to start a LSP for block 1 , then you continue onwards, meeting further requirements .

here the forces treat GSQR as if even one unfulfuilled requirement means complete failure of the project, we saw that with MALE drones , its the example of releasing one bird in the hand to catch 2 in the bush, and then they pretend to be serious by going for emergency procurement.

 

[silentassassin265]

Roosi maal for engines, AL-31FP engine is there.

As for electronics etc those have to be smuggled in if we get sanctioned or stocked currently, then we need to go Chinese and make our own equivalents.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

That's the way it is going on currently.
Burgericans are not even letting us complete tejas

Again, in September 2024, Denmark prohibited the export of engine charge amplifiers, previously installed on Tejas Mk1, resulting in further delays of Tejas Mk1A deliveries.

They are using their slave states to sabotage mk1a, why people here thinks that we will get AMCA by 2035.
Designing lca program on western technology was a big blunder .

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

An F-35 that can't talk to others is useless. Iam still astonished by people who shill for F-35. How the fuck a F-35 talk to some Sukhoi or AWACS?

In general, it depends on antenna types, their H/w circuit & controlling S/w used on both sides.
Older system was more H/w oriented, new ones more S/w oriented.
Currently, civil & military jets both have multiple bands & antennas for communication, navigation.
Both also have some common open frequencies for emergencies w/o any encryption, frequency hopping, etc.
So both sides need to use same -
- band
- hopping pattern like WiFi
- encryption

The avionics of a 5gen jet is supposed to be very sophisticated, dynamic, adaptable, especially if claiming to have good EW, CW.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Kya ajeeb Ch- desh hai

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1936034984730739168

 

[DancingPeacock]

Daily reminder that

1. There is no explicit rule in acquisition process that only when Forces initiate or recommend or order a product, can GoI approve it.

2. The GoI has full power over acquisition process that it can order 500 AMCA tomorrow at production rate of 25 per year over 20 years. Nothing stopping them, there is no rule that states that if and if only Forces consider or recommend it formally, can GoI inturn initiate the process.

3. The GoI itself can start the acquisition process by itself and order the Forces to deal with it.

Absolute Chalta-hai mentality with regarding defence.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Kya ajeeb Ch- desh hai

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1936034984730739168

Retards in MOD clearly does not able to comprehend Mass manufacturing and economics of scale. Simple splitting 120 Jets into 2 is retarded decision. Also How many AMCA IAF needs 120/250/300+ nothing is clear with AMCA.

 

[Gandaberunda]

Kya ajeeb Ch- desh hai

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1936034984730739168

Tejas MK2 is only promised 5 squadrons then 120 AMCA is more than what we have ever committed to a plane which is still on paper.

 

[shade2]

Retards in MOD clearly does not able to comprehend Mass manufacturing and economics of scale. Simple splitting 120 Jets into 2 is retarded decision. Also How many AMCA IAF needs 120/250/300+ nothing is clear with AMCA.

Tejas MK2 is only promised 5 squadrons then 120 AMCA is more than what we have ever committed to a plane which is still on paper.

They will import in the end anyway, it's by design.

If anyone opposes, his Mi-17 will fall out of the sky and the dead pilot will be blamed.

 

[jaijaganath]

Daily reminder that

1. There is no explicit rule in acquisition process that only when Forces initiate or recommend or order a product, can GoI approve it.

2. The GoI has full power over acquisition process that it can order 500 AMCA tomorrow at production rate of 25 per year over 20 years. Nothing stopping them, there is no rule that states that if and if only Forces consider or recommend it formally, can GoI inturn initiate the process.

3. The GoI itself can start the acquisition process by itself and order the Forces to deal with it.

Absolute Chalta-hai mentality with regarding defence.

First time hearing this
Do u have any source or incidence

 

[DancingPeacock]

First time hearing this
Do u have any source or incidence

Because as far as iam aware, there isn't any rule explicitly mentioned that GoI can place orders if and if only Forces approve or recommend it. The 36 Rafale Deal I think its initiated by GoI itself, moreover when asked last time regarding the Carrier-borne Fighters, IN said either one- aka F-18 or Rafale is fine. So, its all in the hands of GoI.

 

[jaijaganath]

Because as far as iam aware, there isn't any rule explicitly mentioned that GoI can place orders if and if only Forces approve or recommend it. The 36 Rafale Deal I think its initiated by GoI itself, moreover when asked last time regarding the Carrier-borne Fighters, IN said either one- aka F-18 or Rafale is fine. So, its all in the hands of GoI.

But the requirement was raised by services only
36 rafales were done with consent and discussion with IAF
They clearly stated as their urgent requirement AFAIK

Coming to naval ones IN went through all procedures rfi rfp and then testing post that as both the platform satisfied their QRs they left the choice to higher command to decide
And that included all the stakeholders

 

[DancingPeacock]

But the requirement was raised by services only
36 rafales were done with consent and discussion with IAF
They clearly stated as their urgent requirement AFAIK

Coming to naval ones IN went through all procedures rfi rfp and then testing post that as both the platform satisfied their QRs they left the choice to higher command to decide
And that included all the stakeholders

See the raising or consideration or meeting of stakeholders are all procedural not legal. There is nothing stopping GoI.

 

[jaijaganath]

See the raising or consideration or meeting of stakeholders are all procedural not legal. There is nothing stopping GoI.

I don't think so
Procedures are essential not only because of legality but due to politics and corruption
It's not my take rather that's what establishment think
So no one dares to cut down procedures

Anyway govt isn't that brave to independently to initiate procurement

 

[shuturmurg]

Kya ajeeb Ch- desh hai

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1936034984730739168

Why would a company setup entire manufacturing line for 60 planes. Compare the scale to US, where they are manufacturing 180 f-35 per year.

 

[dr.defence]

When I first came to know of amca, tejas etc. Defence technology I was a k8d know I am adult and as per it's current timline let alone taking further delays in consideration I will become a middle aged man by it's induction ,tejas mk2 is still a paper plane. And even 5.5 gen amca mk2 will come when world would be inducting 6th gen that too in best case scenario. I few months from now pakistan will have it's imported 5th Gen (of whatever quality) fighter. And we will roll out tejas mk2 in that period.
Further AMCA prototype was delayed just because they can’t get private player in manufacturing.,jthey should have started testing and then should have worried about manufacturing.

I don't want to sound blackpiller but
It is so difficult for me to remain optimistic I am just losing hopes not in dedication and capability of our soldier but our jet timeliness are just a joke.
Sorry if this was not useful to this discussion or appeared as blackpilling .
Administrator can move this post to appropriate thread if they think this is not suitable here.

 

[redpanda]

When I first came to know of amca, tejas etc. Defence technology I was a k8d know I am adult and as per it's current timline let alone taking further delays in consideration I will become a middle aged man by it's induction ,tejas mk2 is still a paper plane. And even 5.5 gen amca mk2 will come when world would be inducting 6th gen that too in best case scenario. I few months from now pakistan will have it's imported 5th Gen (of whatever quality) fighter. And we will roll out tejas mk2 in that period.
Further AMCA prototype was delayed just because they can’t get private player in manufacturing.,jthey should have started testing and then should have worried about manufacturing.

I don't want to sound blackpiller but
It is so difficult for me to remain optimistic I am just losing hopes not in dedication and capability of our soldier but our jet timeliness are just a joke.
Sorry if this was not useful to this discussion or appeared as blackpilling .
Administrator can move this post to appropriate thread if they think this is not suitable here.

Let me tell you something when you were a kid there was no AMCA, there was MCA. AMCA came into existence when FGFA failed. And MCA became AMCA. No point in doing blackpilling. Because what will happen will happen. This is the nth time I have seen similar generic tooter level rant (I heard about AMCA when I was a kid....) about AMCA here.

Also somehow this kind of rant often made by certain folks who think we should rather panic import F35/Su-57.

 

[shade2]

Let me tell you something when you were a kid there was no AMCA, there was MCA. AMCA came into existence when FGFA failed. And MCA became AMCA. No point in doing blackpilling. Because what will happen will happen. This is the nth time I have seen similar generic tooter level rant (I heard about AMCA when I was a kid....) about AMCA here.

Also somehow this kind of rant often made by certain folks who think we should rather panic import F35/Su-57.

F-35 aayega and that will be using the same type of public and media facing drama of "maza nahi aa raha hai" that shits on Tejas to impoort Rafale, only in the future it will be AMCA and the import target will be F-35

Baboons are setting up AMCA for failure and UN Generols will be it's executioner

 

[redpanda]

F-35 aayega and that will be using the same type of public and media facing drama of "maza nahi aa raha hai" that shits on Tejas to impoort Rafale, only in the future it will be AMCA and the import target will be F-35

Baboons are setting up AMCA for failure and UN Generols will be it's executioner

Umrika won't sell it anytime soon to us. IAF babooz will be forced to go with AMCA after hitting & putting their head in different thalis.

 

[shade2]

Umrika won't sell it anytime soon. IAF babooz will be forced to go with AMCA after hitting putting their head in different thalis.

Not now, 10-15 years later

Till then AMCA will be subjected to demands for unobtainium features and scope creep.

 

[redpanda]

Not now, 10-15 years later

Till then AMCA will be subjected to demands for unobtainium features and scope creep.

Ye bhi sahi hai baat hai. Dekhte hain kya hota hai. I hope the project somehow roll through that like Tejas. All we can do is hope that it doesn't get shelved.