Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

It's just usual Dhoti Shivering of Pakistan getting stealth fighter, we shouldn't waste time on them. One, they're too insignificant for our attention and two, comparison with them would give us a false sense of security. Even if they get 7th gen fighter then too they won't become an adversary for us; they've always been a security headache and they'll keep being that only.

Pakistanis are doomed because of their geography; a thin strip of land that shares a very long land border with India. You don't even need to use a single IAF or IN asset to deal with them; ground forces itself would be enough to neutralize not just their ground forces but even their air-force and navy. [obviously we aren't including the nuclear factor]
View attachment 19864
BrahMos, Prithvi, Shaurya, Pralay, Prahaar, LR-AShM...you've so many things that can be used to target pretty much every airbase, naval station, C&C centres; all from deep inside India. Also I've included just supersonic missiles and ballistic missiles as they've abysmal defences against these; include Nirbhay and the number goes through the roof. Moreover all of these are tactical weapons that we can use in numbers unlike say strategic weapons like Agni which would always be limited.

We don't have this advantage with us for China. They outrange our tactical weapons, they've good counter to our Ballistic Missiles (HQ-19), they have multiple platforms that're still unchallenged by us (J-20, J-35, YJ-21) and perhaps most importantly, they out match us in magazine depth (300+ J-20s).

only half advantage (two sided sword) with us is 2-3 chinese air base in tibbet nd arunanchal.
according to pentagon 2022 report.

meanwhile india hv many air base near all border:-

so it can be beneficial for india...if we some how safeguard our airbases from chinese MBRL, cruise missiles nd ballistic missiles attacks. their 2-3 airbase near our border can be destroyed.
i also found this unproved map, which tells where r chinese rocket force situated. if its true than we hv less missiles to face in starting of war. although i dont believe that chinese didnt deploy their rocket force near indian border. they r not that naive.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

only thing that puzzels me,,,,why our upgrade nd procurement is too costly? for example:-
1:- 84 su 30 mki upgrade will cost us near 7 billion dollars. that makes near 83 million dollar per su 30 mki upgrade. its even more costly than a new su 30 mki. which hv no engine upgrade on it. so where is money spending??? do new aesa radar, some avionics nd some weapon upgrade cost that much ?
2:- we already make deal of 12 su 30 mki in 1.5 billion dollars. that make it 125 million dollars per su 30 mki. dont know its include new upgrade or not...
dont know how much cost they will take for tejas mark 2, TEDBF nd AMCA....

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

Chalo bhul jao sab... kuch nahi hua... that was fake AI generated video of 6th gen jets... bloody CCP propaganda.

_________________________________________

Now tell me how to counter the 200-300 J-20 that are in service which will number 800+ by 2030... the 600x J-10 & 800+ flanker derivatives?

Don't come with new cope logic that they have less airfields on our borders... they will create & are in process of creating half a dozen more.

Out of the 800 J-20s they will have by 2030... they can field 300 against India.

Regarding targeting their Airfields... they will do the same with yours... their rocket force is humongous.

 

[Ayan Barat]

• In 1960s we're roping in top experts (Kurt Tank) to design completely new and competent fighters in house.
• In 1960s the best China could do was reverse engineer MiG-17 as Shenyang J-7

• In 2025 our 4th gen jet production is dependent on import of engines from a country that's always been bit iffy to us.
• In 2025 China is reportedly flying not one but five different 5th gen platforms with almost 300 already produced.

How can you mess up this bad Anon!!!

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

Chalo bhul jao sab... kuch nahi hua... that was fake AI generated video of 6th gen jets... bloody CCP propaganda.

_________________________________________

Now tell me how to counter the 200-300 J-20 that are in service which will number 800+ by 2030... the 600x J-10 & 800+ flanker derivatives?

Don't come with new cope logic that they have less airfields on our borders... they will create & are in process of creating half a dozen more.

Out of the 800 J-20s they will have by 2030... they can field 300 against India.

Regarding targeting their Airfields... they will do the same with yours... their rocket force is humongous.

we cant compete with chinese in number game. so its better to invest more in nuclear bombs, cruise missiles nd simple rockets. so chinese dont go for a full scale war. look chinese hv same advantage upon us, like american had over chinese nd russia. i mean both in quality nd quantity. it doesnt mean america could afford a serious war with russia nd china, although their border was far. in our case, chinese r near our border nd their cities r in our conventional missiles range (may be except Beijing)...so chinese know what on stake. its not easy to attack any country now, example is taiwan.

if u dont think few chinese air base near our border isnt advantage for us...than i also dont consider chinese j20 a 5 th genration fighter. due to lack of high thrust engine nd good stealth. may be in 4-5 year we can make 300 km range SDRF (astra 3) nd GAN based radars for su 30 mki nd others. which can be beneficial in half cooked chinese 5 genration j20. nd who knows we also successfully develop 250 km range kusha sam defense. i mean i m from uttarakhand, just near chinese border. we dont even care about chinese (may be ignorance, some time bliss)...i think u should buy home in Andaman nicobar. where atleast u dont hv to face chinese j20. their navy isnt going to induct any naval j20 version soon.

 

[silentassassin265]

We'll probably be below 20 squadrons by 2030 . Bloody corrupt foreign maal khor IAF generaLols must be sacked . Heads must roll & accountability must be there .

20 is too optimistic, jaguars are not flight worthy in current era, mirage will retire . We will only have 10 to 12 squadrons of su30, 3 squadrons mig29 and 2 of rafale.
Even if GE starts the delivery in March there's no way HAL will ever be able to deliver even 8 jets per year hardly adding 3 squadrons.
This number of squadron is possible only if no more su30 or mig29 crashes and GE actually delivers engines.
LCA mk2 doesn't exist and prototype state won't start until the engines deal is secure. Considering prototype is made in 2026 the actual order will not be placed before 2029

 

[ezsasa]

only thing that puzzels me,,,,why our upgrade nd procurement is too costly? for example:-
1:- 84 su 30 mki upgrade will cost us near 7 billion dollars. that makes near 83 million dollar per su 30 mki upgrade. its even more costly than a new su 30 mki. which hv no engine upgrade on it. so where is money spending??? do new aesa radar, some avionics nd some weapon upgrade cost that much ?
2:- we already make deal of 12 su 30 mki in 1.5 billion dollars. that make it 125 million dollars per su 30 mki. dont know its include new upgrade or not...
dont know how much cost they will take for tejas mark 2, TEDBF nd AMCA....

it's the cost of total project, not just the upgrade. this project will be executed over a period of 15 years, including 7 years for developmental trails and 7/8 years for upgrade there after.

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/super-sukhoi-upgrade-programme-put-in-motion-to-take-15-years-to-complete-heres-all-about-it

 

[Spitfire IX]

LCA mk2 doesn't exist and prototype state won't start until the engines deal is secure. Considering prototype is made in 2026 the actual order will not be placed before 2029

I don't think an order will definitely be placed 2029 if testing is completed in 2029. GOI takes 6-9(?) months to organise CCS getting together to approve something IIRC.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Just to get a rough idea of how easy* it's to make an AWACS out of C-295.
Took me hardly 15min to doodle this.
View attachment 19601
*if you have the thing called ingenuity

Nothing cutting edge, almost all of the equipments (except radar) are COTS and can be added with minimal airframe modification. The only serious airframe modification that would be needed would be a new strengthened vertical stabilizer to support the additional weight of the radar...not a big deal. In case there's doubt about the feasibility of mounting radome on top of the vertical stabilizer then An-71s have already proven this concept.

Or why the heck bother with a manned plane at all? No ways you need a pilot to make an AWACS do Pugachev's Cobra to evade an incoming AAM. Making a manned plane with crew of 10-15 people requires large, cylindrical empty spaces, that need to be constantly climate controlled. You can bypass everything by having just one very good encrypted SatCom link and using a HALE UAV for AWACS role just like we've discussed multiple times how an ASuW UAV can be better than likes of P-8i...

...just like these guys are planning to do.

View: https://x.com/clashreport/status/1872927271004361181?s=19

Of all things, even if the AWACS is downed you won't lose your highly trained radar crew

 

[DumbPilot]

Or why the heck bother with a manned plane at all? No ways you need a pilot to make an AWACS do Pugachev's Cobra to evade an incoming AAM. Making a manned plane with crew of 10-15 people requires large, cylindrical empty spaces, that need to be constantly climate controlled. You can bypass everything by having just one very good encrypted SatCom link and using a HALE UAV for AWACS role just like we've discussed multiple times how an ASuW UAV can be better than likes of P-8i...

...just like these guys are planning to do.

View: https://x.com/clashreport/status/1872927271004361181?s=19

Of all things, even if the AWACS is downed you won't lose your highly trained radar crew

Where are you keeping a radar dish big and powerful enough to actually replace the ones used on an AWACS that has enough range and enough power to burn through fighter radars if need be? Suppose you can figure that out somehow, how are you going to give it electrical power? OK, I suppose you can figure that out as well - how do you give it endurance? Perhaps a long cylindrical body, wings designed for lift and range, and I suppose two big engines that can power the UAV.

OK, suppose you can figure all that stuff out. Then you have the human operators on ground that can maintain a constant datalink with the flying drone - wait, you just gave away the position of your drone because of the constant radio emission.

Then I suppose we can just keep the humans onboard, give them a constant climate control, and- wait..

 

[AbRaj]

Where are you keeping a radar dish big and powerful enough to actually replace the ones used on an AWACS that has enough range and enough power to burn through fighter radars if need be? Suppose you can figure that out somehow, how are you going to give it electrical power? OK, I suppose you can figure that out as well - how do you give it endurance? Perhaps a long cylindrical body, wings designed for lift and range, and I suppose two big engines that can power the UAV.

OK, suppose you can figure all that stuff out. Then you have the human operators on ground that can maintain a constant datalink with the flying drone - wait, you just gave away the position of your drone because of the constant radio emission.

Then I suppose we can just keep the humans onboard, give them a constant climate control, and- wait..

View attachment 19939

How can you hide a lighthouse of radio frequencies by turning off data links ?
Conformal antenna have been used in awacs since last few decades. Why you need a Disc ?
I believe future AWACS will be unconventional designs

 

[Ayan Barat]

All of your questions are valid but can be addressed using just one word; TIME.
With time things improve my Guy

Where are you keeping a radar dish big and powerful enough to actually replace the ones used on an AWACS that has enough range and enough power to burn through fighter radars if need be?

First of all this "burn through" thing is not exactly true and even if it's remotely then also a simple Faraday Cage can complete negate it.

Now coming to size and power.
• This is STIR radar from 1990s

A Cassegrain antenna of 1.2m diameter, a power consumption of 5kW to achieve an instrumented range of 36km for missiles type target in X-band.
The whole system weighs 2-3 tonnes.

• This is exMHR radar from 2024

A GaN AESA of dimensions 90x120x30cm, a power consumption of 2.5kW to achieve an instrumented range of 60km for low RCS targets in X-band.
The whole system weighs just 150kg.

Suppose you can figure that out somehow, how are you going to give it electrical power?

Again, time

• this is AN/TPY-2 radar from 2000

Extremely capable X-band radar used for the THAAD system, can reportedly track targets beyond 3,000km. It's power requirement is 1.1MW at peak.
• this is Honeywell's turboshaft auxiliary power generator from 2024

This thing is very efficient, weighs less than 130kg but manages to generate 1MW of peak power.

OK, I suppose you can figure that out as well - how do you give it endurance?

By mounting it on a HALE platform who's last two letters stand for Long Endurance.
The already pretty old RQ-4 HALE UAVs managed to sustain 30+ hours of flight.

How are the aircrew going to deal with sleep, hunger, fatigue of 30+ hours of flight?

maintain a constant datalink with the flying drone - wait, you just gave away the position of your drone because of the constant radio emission.

Here also I could have given you example of how modern SatCom antennas use a teeny tiny beam of radio waves with LPI characteristics to talk to a satellite above them, not a ground station instead of just emitting radio waves all around like WW2 antennas.

But instead, I'll ask you a simple question.
What is more likely to give away a plane's position because of its radio emissions; a multi kW AWACS radar or a single data-link?

 

[shade2]

• In 1960s we're roping in top experts (Kurt Tank) to design completely new and competent fighters in house.
• In 1960s the best China could do was reverse engineer MiG-17 as Shenyang J-7

• In 2025 our 4th gen jet production is dependent on import of engines from a country that's always been bit iffy to us.
• In 2025 China is reportedly flying not one but five different 5th gen platforms with almost 300 already produced.

How can you mess up this bad Anon!!!

>CCP's goal is to be US's peer including in military to avoid a USSR style collapse
>PLA is the armed-wing of the CCP
>CCP rules the PRC, a one-party authoritarian state
>Tiananmen Square protests, massacre and the resulting Arms Embargo lit a fire under their ass
>The fire on their ass is still lit rn.


I don't need to tell you our situation in comparison to chinki, you already know.

They have a better system by default to get shit done, since they economically liberalized, got foreign investment in money and tech and became the factory of the world there was no competition.

Even without having their aggressive Industrial Espionage/Reverse Engineering program they would reach here simply because of their strangle hold of the commerial manufacturing ecosystem, military manufacturing doesn't exist in exclusivity.

They have a better system, their leadership has far vision and deep pockets and their civilian manufacturers are on-par with the global standard.

 

[AbRaj]

Any chance of DRDO JV 120 Kn engine being "adaptive cycle engine" (Variable cycle) ?

View attachment 19953





Can Tejas mk 2 accommodate that 120 Kn in future ?
If yes will it have TVC nozzle ?
View attachment 19956





Is IAF going to induct 200+ AMCA ?


View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1765746078123692273







Is IAF going to induct 250+ Tejas Mk 2 ?

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/india-to-begin-production-of-lca-mark2-jets-by-2029-5th-gen-fighter-amca-by-203520240811185955

These type of questions one should ask to the Astrologers.

 

[vampyrbladez]

There will be an MRFA and the rebranded F-16 will (((win)))

The F-16 is ofc the pathway to the F35 afterall
Maybe...

Have you checked the news recently?


View: https://x.com/TheLegateIN/status/1873000117315481885


View: https://x.com/DrSJaishankar/status/1872802352178360583

H.R.4312 - To enhance the eligibility of India for Foreign Military Sales and exports under the Arms Export Control Act.​

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/4312/all-info

 

[DumbPilot]

All of your questions are valid but can be addressed using just one word; TIME.
With time things improve my Guy

First of all this "burn through" thing is not exactly true and even if it's remotely then also a simple Faraday Cage can complete negate it.

Now coming to size and power.
• This is STIR radar from 1990s
View attachment 19945
A Cassegrain antenna of 1.2m diameter, a power consumption of 5kW to achieve an instrumented range of 36km for missiles type target in X-band.
The whole system weighs 2-3 tonnes.

• This is exMHR radar from 2024
View attachment 19946
A GaN AESA of dimensions 90x120x30cm, a power consumption of 2.5kW to achieve an instrumented range of 60km for low RCS targets in X-band.
The whole system weighs just 150kg.

Again, time

• this is AN/TPY-2 radar from 2000
View attachment 19947
Extremely capable X-band radar used for the THAAD system, can reportedly track targets beyond 3,000km. It's power requirement is 1.1MW at peak.
• this is Honeywell's turboshaft auxiliary power generator from 2024
View attachment 19948
This thing is very efficient, weighs less than 130kg but manages to generate 1MW of peak power.

By mounting it on a HALE platform who's last two letters stand for Long Endurance.
The already pretty old RQ-4 HALE UAVs managed to sustain 30+ hours of flight.

How are the aircrew going to deal with sleep, hunger, fatigue of 30+ hours of flight?

Here also I could have given you example of how modern SatCom antennas use a teeny tiny beam of radio waves with LPI characteristics to talk to a satellite above them, not a ground station instead of just emitting radio waves all around like WW2 antennas.

But instead, I'll ask you a simple question.
What is more likely to give away a plane's position because of its radio emissions; a multi kW AWACS radar or a single data-link?

lol @ faraday cage. the entire crux of the modern day fighter is to operate a platform that can utilize avionics and electronics as advanced as possible. There have been incidents(for example in NATO training exercises) where some AWACS operators thought they were being locked up by something not friendly, and sent a full power pulse to the fighter jet in question - the entire fire control radar was fried and the avionics dead.

The second point is that "burn through" is a real thing in electronic warfare - especially for defeating electronic jamming at long ranges. The power of the radar, in some cases, directly translates to the distance at which it can reliably get a range and bearing on the jamming aircraft.

The modern day AESA breakthrough is undeniable, but you still need radars in bigger sizes to actually perform anything at good distances(for AWACS, this extends to anywhere from 200-400 nautical miles, which is like some 500km+). The powerplant looks promising, so let's see how it pans out.

LPI technology is already being used in SATCOM/data-links for various planes and radars. However even if you have something like a FDMA/CDMA it still requires that your signal make it out alive in all the noise/jamming available in the modern day battlefield. What happens when you lose contact with your AWACS HALE?

The biggest point that you seem to be missing is that the AWACS is not just a plane with a bunch of dudes on it who detect other enemy planes. They're in charge of a BIG chunk of C2 operations on the air battlefield, which includes but is not limited to:
- Managing complex ATO(air tasking orders) like SEAD, DEAD, OCA, DCA, CAPs, ...
- Communication relays
- Electronic intelligence
- Cooperation with other aircrafts like JSTARs
- Battle management systems

As for crew fatigue: this is a non-factor. All AWACS crew, if on a long endurance mission, have secondary or tertiary crews. They can be swapped out.

Now your last point about multi KW AWACS radar: as you must know at this point, this LPI technology with AESA radars is also used on AWACS aircraft; and detection via RWR/passive scanners is a possibility only when the PRF and power used by the AWACS is high enough so that the enemy aircraft can actually get some meaningful radiation. I recommend searching about RWS/TWS/STT modes available on fighter aircraft radars - the AWACS thing is kind of similar.

 

[darkflame]

Have you checked the news recently?


View: https://x.com/TheLegateIN/status/1873000117315481885


View: https://x.com/DrSJaishankar/status/1872802352178360583

H.R.4312 - To enhance the eligibility of India for Foreign Military Sales and exports under the Arms Export Control Act.​

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/4312/all-info

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1872988641762656562

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1872989462915105025

 

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1872988641762656562

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1872989462915105025

With a Republican majority in US House, Senate and a Republican President, I expect this to go through if India makes a push for F 35.

 

[samsaptaka]

Missile program exists exactly because nobody would sell us those.

This arms embargo thing could happen in the coming years with deep state gunning for Gobi with their regime change protests, and the Russian going for a sequel of the USSR collapse/dissolution in the future.

The French, Jooz can be arm-twisted into complying and Uncle Sam already has embargo'd us for GE F404

The only counter argument for arms embargo is Bharat's dubious distinction of being the (((world's largest arms impoorter))), which will mean any such embargo would only be temporary.

It really is just better if we get some R&D program for a fighter jet engine with some existing foreign engine set as the performance "target" without it being openly (((linked))) to some actual fighter that is hawked to the <REDACTED>

This should be funded through some "strategic" budget like S4, S5 sub and the ICBM/missile development projects are, funding should be generous and continuous and infra like FTB and all must be domestically acquired.

I think it would be good idea to fund or bribe some right wing xtian senators and paki supporters in US congress to embargo all jet engine sales to Bharath from all NATO countries for atleast 20 yrs - that's the only way Kaveri is going to fet funding!

 

[samsaptaka]

View: https://x.com/HTT40PRASHANT/status/1872273914073854460

How true is this as its coming from prashant sir

There is no 'system' . Just chaotic democracy BS and piecemeal procurement to satisfy news media. If we had a system or a deep state we wouldn't be in this position