Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[shiphone]

where did u get 600 j10 numbers?? chinese hv near 300-400 j10...

LOL...PLAAF/NAF used to have 10 combat units of J10/10A/10S/10AH/10SH which is around 300 jets...then came the 56 J10Bs and more than 270 J10Cs and unknown number of new batch of J10Ss ...nowadays, quite some J10A/Ss were reassigned to the Flying Academies ; PLANAF also handed over all J10s to the air force. the most of J10 combat units are operating J10B/C and the combat unit quantity is more than 13(3 more units owns some, but they are models mixed units ). A 'Brigade level' Combat unit normally owns around 40 fighters. btw the August 1st aerobatic team has 12 Special varient J10s of their own.

in sum, around 650 all varients of J10s were manufactured for PLAAF and NAF(24 no.). but the J10C volume production for the air force is over... only export order will proceed...

-----------------------
btw , so called 1/4 of PLAAF fleet are J7s is another joke and obviously IAF won't face any PLAAF J-7s in future. nearly 300 no. of J-7 were manufactured around early this century ... a J-7 unit could have 50-60 jets nowadays so the spare parts are sufficient....lol. ..these units are deployed in secondary direction for training.

PLAAF's next mass production model is J-35A ... it's around the coner, it will replace the remaining J-7s and early varient of J10s...and JH-7 is an attacker, so it is something else.
n

 

[Brood Father]

It's just usual Dhoti Shivering of Pakistan getting stealth fighter, we shouldn't waste time on them. One, they're too insignificant for our attention and two, comparison with them would give us a false sense of security. Even if they get 7th gen fighter then too they won't become an adversary for us; they've always been a security headache and they'll keep being that only.

Pakistanis are doomed because of their geography; a thin strip of land that shares a very long land border with India. You don't even need to use a single IAF or IN asset to deal with them; ground forces itself would be enough to neutralize not just their ground forces but even their air-force and navy. [obviously we aren't including the nuclear factor]
View attachment 19864
BrahMos, Prithvi, Shaurya, Pralay, Prahaar, LR-AShM...you've so many things that can be used to target pretty much every airbase, naval station, C&C centres; all from deep inside India. Also I've included just supersonic missiles and ballistic missiles as they've abysmal defences against these; include Nirbhay and the number goes through the roof. Moreover all of these are tactical weapons that we can use in numbers unlike say strategic weapons like Agni which would always be limited.

We don't have this advantage with us for China. They outrange our tactical weapons, they've good counter to our Ballistic Missiles (HQ-19), they have multiple platforms that're still unchallenged by us (J-20, J-35, YJ-21) and perhaps most importantly, they out match us in magazine depth (300+ J-20s).

Lol , I don't know why people panicking over pakis getting fifth gen
We can target their infrastructure from low cost missiles and fifth gen requires expensive maintenance and upgrade , so its good that they will have to flush their already limited money in maintaining these white elephants

Don't fucking panic and don't do knee jerk reaction . Learn from china and invest in indigenous program

 

[ArjunMK1A]

It's just usual Dhoti Shivering of Pakistan getting stealth fighter, we shouldn't waste time on them. One, they're too insignificant for our attention and two, comparison with them would give us a false sense of security. Even if they get 7th gen fighter then too they won't become an adversary for us; they've always been a security headache and they'll keep being that only.

Pakistanis are doomed because of their geography; a thin strip of land that shares a very long land border with India. You don't even need to use a single IAF or IN asset to deal with them; ground forces itself would be enough to neutralize not just their ground forces but even their air-force and navy. [obviously we aren't including the nuclear factor]
View attachment 19864
BrahMos, Prithvi, Shaurya, Pralay, Prahaar, LR-AShM...you've so many things that can be used to target pretty much every airbase, naval station, C&C centres; all from deep inside India. Also I've included just supersonic missiles and ballistic missiles as they've abysmal defences against these; include Nirbhay and the number goes through the roof. Moreover all of these are tactical weapons that we can use in numbers unlike say strategic weapons like Agni which would always be limited.

We don't have this advantage with us for China. They outrange our tactical weapons, they've good counter to our Ballistic Missiles (HQ-19), they have multiple platforms that're still unchallenged by us (J-20, J-35, YJ-21) and perhaps most importantly, they out match us in magazine depth (300+ J-20s).

Agreed.

We should arm ourselves based on the threat from China. Automatically then we will have edge over pakis and beedis since they may be potentional nuisance.

Also as stated their geography is screwed up so we can cut them down as we done in 71.

As for China is concerned we need to plan in long term basis. Eg. 5years, 10 years.

If we go with piecemeal emergency procurement. Then we can say goodbye.

 

[vampyrbladez]

My 2 cents , but investing now in MRFA would be the biggest blunder IAF can do in knee jerk reaction
We should focus now in Tejas Mk2 and Orca ..
AMCA should be accelerated and should be completed in war footing
And get indigenous engine sorted even if it means to give Safran / Rolls Royace the fortune ..

There will be no MRFA. IAF did not jointly negotiate with IN for more Rafales for this very reason.

The goal is simple for IAF. Beg, borrow and steal for F 35. They have made up their mind for around 40 F 35.

From 2023 :

The United States, which is selective about which countries it sells the F-35 to, has not made it clear whether they have offered the jet to India — nor has the Indian Air Force said anything official about it.

But Rear Admiral Michael L. Baker, defense attache at the U.S. embassy in India, said New Delhi was in the "very early stages" of considering whether it wanted the plane.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/f35-fighter-jets-aero-india-aviation-show-us-russia-weapons/

 

[shiphone]

Up until now we used to have two crown jewels in our air-force inventory. One was the SPECTRA but the problem with that is that it's just 36 planes. And the other was this
View attachment 19861
A magazine depth of 12 missiles; even if the pK is reduced to just 0.3 then also you'd be taking 3-4 bogies with each Su-30MkIs.

But this new J-36 (as of now) completely negates this advantage of ours because now it can carry BVR-AAMs in numbers similar to Su-30MkI but with the frontal RCS of almost F-35s. If used properly in a pure Air Dominance role then these things can massacre enemy air-forces in numbers.

So as of now (just for a perspective, they aren't attacking anytime soon) the best defence we're left with are those 36 Rafales with SPECTRA and whatever protection is provided by those Israeli jamming pods.

??? never

PL17+PL15+PL12+PL10

and

-----------------

the export varient of fin foldable NEW PL15 AAM which fits for the Inner Weapon Bay was displayed last month...obviousely it is the matched option for the FC-31/J-35AE export...

 

[Corvus Splendens]

My 2 cents , but investing now in MRFA would be the biggest blunder IAF can do in knee jerk reaction
We should focus now in Tejas Mk2 and Orca ..
AMCA should be accelerated and should be completed in war footing
And get indigenous engine sorted even if it means to give Safran / Rolls Royce the fortune ..

On Tejas, scrap the follow up Mk1A order and fastrack Mk2, GE has supply chain issues with G404 engines anyway but the 414 line is always chugging at max capacity due to USN's own requirements and various other clients like SoKo. Redesign the ORCA with recessed bays and proper S curve DSI intakes (a KF-21 analogue) and force the IAF to collaborate on it Parrikar style, as a Su-30 replacement. Order 36 more Rafales to keep the IAF happy in the meanwhile. Development priority right now is AHCA>Tejas Mk2>ORCA.

 

[Brood Father]

Ajeeb concocted logic chal raha iss forum pe...

Some say we can't compete with China in numbers... then some say let's build our numbers to overcome PAF advancements... then some say no pak is not a problem let's focus on China... rinse and repeat.

& for those saying let's focus on MK2... le ghusa diye hum apna gardan TEJAS MK2 ki g**nd mein... ab batao kab shuru hoga production?

Where's the roadmap to achieve 40 squadrons by 2032 or even arrest the fall of squadrons without MRFA?

MRFA also cannot give you 40 squadrons by 2032 , assuming if you sign the deal today it will take atleast 5 years for the jets to roll to India and assuming the production rate to 20 and we ordering 120 it will take 6 years to get all the required jets
Now you paid 20-25 million for 4th gen fighter which is not manufactured in your country and in case of war you would again have to beg to foreign OEM ..

 

[Brood Father]

On Tejas, scrap the follow up Mk1A order and fastrack Mk2, GE has supply chain issues with G404 engines anyway but the 414 line is always chugging at max capacity due to USN's own requirements and various other clients like SoKo. Redesign the ORCA with recessed bays and proper S curve DSI intakes (a KF-21 analogue) and force the IAF to collaborate on it Parrikar style, as a Su-30 replacement. Order 36 more Rafales to keep the IAF happy in the meanwhile. Development priority right now is AHCA>Tejas Mk2>ORCA.

Even 414 could be in jeopardy once F18 goes out of production, what is the plan then ?
Best would be to give fortune to Safran and get engine sorted ..this is should be priority number 1
Once you have engine you can then roll out any jets you want

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Do you guys think after China's revealing, India can/should skip 6gen & start making 7gen &/or SR-72 Darkstar like fighter just bcoz we tested HSTDV?
There is a thread on Hypersonics:

B

Thread 'Hypersonic Tech R&D: Aircrafts, Missiles; Scramjet, Air Breating Rocket Engines Etc.'

Jul 31, 2024

Hypersonic means speeds more than Mach 5. Humans have desired both civil & military application but It is still in experiment stage.
Subsonic flight still has accidents. Military pilots have ejection seats & parachutes but civillian passengers don't. Hence even supersonic flight has been restricted after Concord crash which BTW was only for rich people.
High-supersonic flight b/w Mach 3-5 will require higher altitude beyond 60Kft to reduce friction drag, but also require enough air for thrust. Occupats may also need a pressure suit which cannot be practically implemented in civil...

• Bhartiya Sainik
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Global Arms and Industry

• 

but nobody discusses about Hypersonic combat jet.
While IAF chief said 1 liner that they have roadmap for 6gen, but on all the forums taken together i found only 1 person, that too senior member (doesn't mean MTech, PhD) who is saying that India needs to skip 6gen & jump to 7gen Hypersonic Trans-Atmospheric Fighter.
Many people are not convinced that 6gen is defined or not & here we have 7gen declaration.
He also says that we are already focussing on this with indegenous capabilities. He means the HSTDV.

 

[Ayan Barat]

and force the IAF to collaborate on it

As usual...can't agree more.
We two are the only fedaykin in the army of lisan al-ORCA

G**nd ka haddi toota hua hai... aur sab ka fashion ban gaya hai... CANCEL MRFA CANCEL MRFA bolte rehne ka.

Ask few questions
• nothing except Rafale makes sense in MRFA because then you'd further screw your logistics. Or are you going to buy something else?
• what is the delivery capacity of both Dassault and Safran? How long will it take?
• would that deal be expensive or cheaper compared to in-house options?
• what will we be getting other than a bunch of fighters after paying billions? In case of something local we would be getting assembly lines, machineary, infrastructure, multiple OEMs for sub-assemblies, skilled labour on top of the fighters.
• how good would be Rafale? In terms of radar, local avionics and weapons, cost of repair and replacement, in times of war

??? never

PL17+PL15+PL12+PL10

-----------------

the export varient of fin foldable NEW PL15 AAM which fits for the Inner Weapon Bay was displayed last month...obviousely it is the matched option for the FC-31/J-35AE export...

Again, you're missing my point. As of now there used to be just two types of air dominance fighters.
• one with magazine depth of 12-14 missiles but unstealthy
• other with magazine depth of 6-8 missile but stealthy

This new platform of yours seems to have dissolved this distinction and present a challenge people were not expecting to face this early.

 

[RocketMan]

LOL...PLAAF/NAF used to have 10 combat units of J10/10A/10S/10AH/10SH which is around 300 jets...then came the 56 J10Bs and more than 270 J10Cs and unknown number of new batch of J10Ss ...nowadays, quite some J10A/Ss were reassigned to the Flying Academies ; PLANAF also handed over all J10s to the air force. the most of J10 combat units are operating J10B/C and the combat unit quantity is more than 13(3 more units owns some, but they are models mixed units ). A 'Brigade level' Combat unit normally owns around 40 fighters. btw the August 1st aerobatic team has 12 Special varient J10s of their own.

in sum, around 650 all varients of J10s were manufactured for PLAAF and NAF(24 no.). but the J10C volume production for the air force is over... only export order will proceed...

-----------------------
btw , so called 1/4 of PLAAF fleet are J7s is another joke and obviously IAF won't face any PLAAF J-7s in future. nearly 300 no. of J-7 were manufactured around early this century ... a J-7 unit could have 50-60 jets nowadays so the spare parts are sufficient....lol. ..these units are deployed in secondary direction for training.

PLAAF's next mass production model is J-35A ... it's around the coner, it will replace the remaining J-7s and early varient of J10s...and JH-7 is an attacker, so it is something else.
n
View attachment 19872

With these jets & a powerful Navy 1st island chain might be broken before 2050s & entirety of South China sea will become a Chinese lake , not to say about grave threat to IAF bases in Ladakh & Arunachal Pradesh. I must say well done China for investing in indigenous MIC & sheer focus & support from Politburo & PLA along with a vast industrial base .

 

[shiphone]

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both are powered by F404 and the jets' order/follow on orders are assured! so why GE had the problem to maintain the F404 manufacturing in the past years?

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

??? never

PL17+PL15+PL12+PL10

-----------------

the export varient of fin foldable NEW PL15 AAM which fits for the Inner Weapon Bay was displayed last month...obviousely it is the matched option for the FC-31/J-35AE export...

View attachment 19879View attachment 19880View attachment 19881View attachment 19882

Folding fin on medium AAM????
I wonder why USA, EU don't have those with AIM-120, Meteor.
Russian R-77 grid fins can fold although, but Su-57 IWB has not been disclosed in this config.

 

[705-Lira]

On Tejas, scrap the follow up Mk1A order and fastrack Mk2, GE has supply chain issues with G404 engines anyway but the 414 line is always chugging at max capacity due to USN's own requirements and various other clients like SoKo. Redesign the ORCA with recessed bays and proper S curve DSI intakes (a KF-21 analogue) and force the IAF to collaborate on it Parrikar style, as a Su-30 replacement. Order 36 more Rafales to keep the IAF happy in the meanwhile. Development priority right now is AHCA>Tejas Mk2>ORCA.

Scrapping the follow on order for 97 Tejas Mk1A since these jets along with the existing order of 123 Tejas Mk1 + Mk1A are very much needed for air policing, interception & air defense missions.

Also the issues with the supply chain will be sorted out sooner rather than later since the GE Massachusetts facility that builds the F404 engines have restarted production and issues are close to being ironed out.

Tejas Mk2 is still 8-12 months away from prototype roll-out and it's highly unlikely to see it getting mass produced before 2029.
So in the short term, Tejas Mk1A is the only option to backfill falling numbers, the other being building more Su30 MKI which will require a new production line given that the Nashik assembly line has been repurposed to build Tejas.

 

[shade2]

Where's the roadmap to achieve 40 squadrons by 2032 or even arrest the fall of squadrons without MRFA?

@iNorthernerOn9 ask your Air Marshalls, this because nobody else, Priest King, Ninda Turtle or those faceless MoD Baboons have any clue.

It's almost as if force-preparedness should be the duty of the IAF but they were too busy stonewalling Tejas induction in hopes of big MMRCA import bonanza and today they are crying about declining squadrons

Anyway there is a cure for all this in buying F-16 via MRFA, Air Marshalls will be overjoyed, Tejas mk1a will be cancelled, Tejas mk2 will be smothered in the crib and Inshallah if America is impressed by our tail-wagging, we may even get F-35 and AMCA khatam, no Jhanjhat of GE F404 and GE F414 screwdrivergiri.

It's also why shill patrakars tell us that Dassault orderbooks are so full that they can only start delivering new planes in 2030

Other shills tell us that LM plans to double F16 production from the 2023's 24 planes a year to 40+ planes a year in the future WAOW!

How Many New F-16s Could Still Be Produced?

Hundreds of F-16s are likely to still be produced, with production to remain open for as long as demand exists.

simpleflying.com

Squadrons declining immediately staunched, Tejas all mk20730978315 totally btfo and AMCA canelled, multiple birds with one Made in America stone, literally (((everybody))) is happy.

Coming years are going to be awesome for dalals

 

[shade2]

Scrapping the follow on order for 97 Tejas Mk1A since these jets along with the existing order of 123 Tejas Mk1 + Mk1A are very much needed for air policing, interception & air defense missions.

Also the issues with the supply chain will be sorted out sooner rather than later since the GE Massachusetts facility that builds the F404 engines have restarted production and issues are close to being ironed out.

Tejas Mk2 is still 8-12 months away from prototype roll-out and it's highly unlikely to see it getting mass produced before 2029.
So in the short term, Tejas Mk1A is the only option to backfill falling numbers, the other being building more Su30 MKI which will require a new production line given that the Nashik assembly line has been repurposed to build Tejas.

Sure about that?



A new issue is taking office by next year, and he will try to leverage our current zaroorat -e- engine to score a few more DEALS

I do not see any future for any of our domestic programs except cancellation and full scale IMPOOOORT
and if America is the vendor for these Imports, you can expect no SCAM SCAM SCAM screechings from the opposition either.

Nobody wants domestic fighter jets, not the IAF, not the voting masses, not the babooze, Priest King can only push things along so much.

 

[shade2]

There will be no MRFA. IAF did not jointly negotiate with IN for more Rafales for this very reason.

The goal is simple for IAF. Beg, borrow and steal for F 35. They have made up their mind for around 40 F 35.

From 2023 :




https://www.cbsnews.com/news/f35-fighter-jets-aero-india-aviation-show-us-russia-weapons/

There will be an MRFA and the rebranded F-16 will (((win)))

The F-16 is ofc the pathway to the F35 afterall
Maybe...

 

[DumbPilot]

There will be an MRFA and the rebranded F-16 will (((win)))

The F-16 is ofc the pathway to the F35 afterall
Maybe...

extremely doubtful

 

[shade2]

extremely doubtful

Why?
They are screaming squadrons declining now, and patrakars rightly inform us that Dassault order books are full and a contract placed today will result in planes being acquired in 2030

So to stem the squadron decline, there is only one option, suddenly the "But the Pakis also have it" argument stops holding water...

And remember this is the only way that the IAF has a chance of getting those precious F-35s

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Why?
They are screaming squadrons declining now, and patrakars rightly inform us that Dassault order books are full and a contract placed today will result in planes being acquired in 2030

So to stem the squadron decline, there is only one option, suddenly the "But the Pakis also have it" argument stops holding water...

And remember this is the only way that the IAF has a chance of getting those precious F-35s

Abey, How many times we had this conversation.
1. Great Satan isn't gonna give it to us.
2. If it allows, it comes at wallet busting price.
3. If it's cheaper, it comes with tons of restrictions with American Personnel on our bases.
4. Even with all such restrictions, you aren't gonna get anything more than 40 to 50 in some alternate fantasy.
5. Even in some alternate fantasy, if we get 100 F-35, they don't matter because by 2035 China will have 1000 J-20 and they don't need all of them, just field 200 here.

You can't put your own missiles, you can't make F-35 talk with AFNet, You can't do Networked Warfare neither can you integrate Loyal Wingman or Ghatak. Its as good as Monkey Piece for Genrols to show.