Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[BON PLAN]

yes, both are of different weight classes, but the cost is the ultimate decider. And the Rafale is more costly than the Su57. So, from an ROI perspective, they are in the same league, hence the comparison.
FYI, given the high per-unit cost of Rafale & its weapons and the high opex of Su57, I am assuming the LTC won't be much different.

No, cost is not the sole point.
-availability (russian jets have a far less availability than west jets, and Rafale is high in this field : nearly 90% reach in IAF).
-lifetime (russian engines life are poor).
-efficiency (russian jets in ukraine were not impressive).
-independance (US weapon can't be used as you like (ask Egypt or UAE...) )
-weapons range, availability of spare parts, ...
etc....

 

[BON PLAN]

One of the strong points of rafale is how much lift it generates, how much payload it can carry and how much range it gives for being relatively compact jet.
All three things desirable for naval jet, specially stobar one.
But that smaller nose cone was a bad decision.
Being twin engine it has potential to power a more powerful radar, somewhere between 1300-1600 gan trm Size radar.

That's also where the design of tedbf shined, maintaining strong suits of rafale but much wider node cone.
Tho for 2038 timeline, it needs to become fucking stealthified with IWB.

It seems to have a small nose cone because, from front, the frame with the big air intakes seems large.

But sure it may be better to have a greater radar. always bigger radar, always more thrust... at the end you have a F22 or a Su57, with the associate costs !

 

[randombully]

No, cost is not the sole point.
-availability (russian jets have a far less availability than west jets, and Rafale is high in this field : nearly 90% reach in IAF).
-lifetime (russian engines life are poor).
-efficiency (russian jets in ukraine were not impressive).
-independance (US weapon can't be used as you like (ask Egypt or UAE...) )
-weapons range, availability of spare parts, ...
etc....

It seems to have a small nose cone because, from front, the frame with the big air intakes seems large.

But sure it may be better to have a greater radar. always bigger radar, always more thrust... at the end you have a F22 or a Su57, with the associate costs !

rafale as fighter jet without any other changes can easily use a 1200-1400 GaAs trm radar, even more with GaN.
But it's stuck at less then 900 trm.
You Don't need more thrust, new engines.
Etc
Even single engine gripen e has somewhat bigger radar.
Eurofighter, j10c all have bigger radar, single engine tejas mk1a has slightly bigger radar, so will mk2.
Now it's not that radar is two small, but it is on a smaller side, especially when rafale's twin m88 can easily power a bigger radar with 1200-1400 trm.
It's a wasted potential.
They should really resign the front nose section to be bigger for f5.

 

[Azaad]

So MRFA will at best happen by 2030 and we will be buying a foreign 4.5th gen at $250 a pop throughout the 2030s when many nations would have started to induct 6th gen. Our AMCA would probably have started the production and we would be needing another "STOPGAP" for the 6th gen threat.

OTOH , there's this requirement of 36 nos Rafales due & OTOH there's this obsession of IAF for the MRFA with local production with a Pvt Sector Player in order to set up another mfg agency to break up HAL's monopoly against a backdrop of falling squadron strength & an imminent war against the Chinese by the end of the decade.

Then there's the issue of financing all these endeavours apart from the indigenous programs we're undertaking without adversely affecting them.

Only God knows how will we juggle so many balls at once .

 

[Indianhawk]

OTOH , there's this requirement of 36 nos Rafales due & OTOH there's this obsession of IAF for the MRFA with local production with a Pvt Sector Player in order to set up another mfg agency to break up HAL's monopoly against a backdrop of falling squadron strength & an imminent war against the Chinese by the end of the decade.

Then there's the issue of financing all these endeavours apart from the indigenous programs we're undertaking without adversely affecting them.

Only God knows how will we juggle so many balls at once .

All govt has to do is order 72 more rafales club them with Navy's 26 to that's 98 jets. Enough for rafale production line in India.

IAF is clear it wants rafale and it wants them away from hal.

 

[Azaad]

All govt has to do is order 72 more rafales club them with Navy's 26 to that's 98 jets. Enough for rafale production line in India.

IAF is clear it wants rafale and it wants them away from hal.

Yes that's the logical thing to do but since when has the GoI done the right thing ? Moreover that also involves postponing the signing of the IN's order .

 

[Indianhawk]

Yes that's the logical thing to do but since when has the GoI done the right thing ? Moreover that also involves postponing the signing of the IN's order .

Look at the parallel developments. Another committee to reduce procurement cycle. ( From present decade long to 1-2 years).

Another committee to fast-track AMCA .

Goi is finally paying attention where it should. And Navy's order can reduce the load on IAF for now.

If they don't go this route , IAF will still go for MRFA and full rafale line on it's own. They have settled on rafale until AMCA takes over in 2040s.

100+ rafales are coming one way or another.

 

[randombully]

All govt has to do is order 72 more rafales club them with Navy's 26 to that's 98 jets. Enough for rafale production line in India.

IAF is clear it wants rafale and it wants them away from hal.

Directly buying makes goi vunrable to another "rafale scam" By opposition.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

Look at the parallel developments. Another committee to reduce procurement cycle. ( From present decade long to 1-2 years).

Another committee to fast-track AMCA .

Goi is finally paying attention where it should. And Navy's order can reduce the load on IAF for now.

If they don't go this route , IAF will still go for MRFA and full rafale line on it's own. They have settled on rafale until AMCA takes over in 2040s.

100+ rafales are coming one way or another.

It's not gonna take 2040 for amca, if govt wants it can materialize by Between 2030 and 2035. Rafale is something we need in large numbers like 100+.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

View: https://x.com/elmihiro/status/1896962965636776447?t=emwoWW62LE22KHSePi33kQ&s=19

We can have the prototype ready by next year. All that is needed is vision

 

[Azaad]

Directly buying makes goi vunrable to another "rafale scam" By opposition.

This is the reason you ought to post less , read more & try to understand more. What do you think all this drama around setting up a committee to look into the state of affairs in the IAF , the IAF chief lamenting the state of the IAF w.r.t numbers , his now constant sniping at HAL , his preference for MRFA with local production in collaboration with a Pvt Sector Player to set up another production line which he's mentioned in public for the fourth or fifth time ever since he's taken over is all about ?

It's to stymie talks of corruption or crony capitalism by the opposition & other vested interests such that when things move to the courts inevitably like it did the last time , the GoI has a cast iron case having followed due procedure based on declarations by different sources like this committee , IAF itself , parliamentary committee reports , CAG audits , eminent personalities like defence correspondents articles etc all citing falling squadron strength , urgent need to push up numbers , monopoly of HAL , etc.

Please stick to preparation of your PP on F-35 for the benefit of the armed forces & GoI which you claim is better than classified briefings that LM & Pentagon offers prospective customers.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

I doubt there would be a war with chinese by end of decade. Having full scale war with india would be worst thing china could do now.

OTOH , there's this requirement of 36 nos Rafales due & OTOH there's this obsession of IAF for the MRFA with local production with a Pvt Sector Player in order to set up another mfg agency to break up HAL's monopoly against a backdrop of falling squadron strength & an imminent war against the Chinese by the end of the decade.

Then there's the issue of financing all these endeavours apart from the indigenous programs we're undertaking without adversely affecting them.

Only God knows how will we juggle so many balls at once .

 

[Azaad]

I doubt there would be a war with chinese by end of decade. Having full scale war with india would be worst thing china could do now.

Yeah , well , going by your logic , the CCP shouldn't have indulged in what they carried out on the LAC in the summer of 1920 too or be planning an invasion of Taiwan now that they've done the hard work of dragging China out of poverty & setting it on track to become a developed country in a few decades.

Yet no one who's a China observer thinks the CCP is not going to attempt an invasion of Taiwan within 5 years . It's a question of when not if - is how these China watchers characterise the situation.

To conclude , never underestimate the power of stupidity..

 

[Nutcracker]

Just do the Radar and 1000km Ballistic Missile Maxxing. Weather the storm of low squadron strength for next 5 years and everything will be normal.
Most important of any of jet deal is to spend towards engines, these MoD dogs dont even have pennies for FTB or engine development.
We have an technologically illiterate dehati swine as Defence minister, And identically it shows in the top ranks of the customer tier forces too.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

Just do the Radar and 1000km Ballistic Missile Maxxing. Weather the storm of low squadron strength for next 5 years and everything will be normal.
Most important of any of jet deal is to spend towards engines, these MoD dogs dont even have pennies for FTB or engine development.
We have an technologically illiterate dehati swine as Defence minister, And identically it shows in the top ranks of the forces too.

Pralay needs to be manufactured in absolute fuck ton amounts. Pralay anyways will neutralize most paki forward bases.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

Yeah , well , going by your logic , the CCP shouldn't have indulged in what they carried out on the LAC in the summer of 1920 too or be planning an invasion of Taiwan now that they've done the hard work of dragging China out of poverty & setting it on track to become a developed country in a few decades.

Yet no one who's a China observer thinks the CCP is not going to attempt an invasion of Taiwan within 5 years . It's a question of when not if - is how these China watchers characterise the situation.

To conclude , never underestimate the power of stupidity..

Govt will raise defence budget on par with overall economy, we could get stuck in a position where USSR was starting from 1980s where military spending was way ahead of their economic growth.

Given we are having difficulties maintaining 7% growth, spending on defence could be a huge gamble for govt.

 

[johny_baba]

View attachment 26836View attachment 26838View attachment 26837

right now more than his Gandiva, this Arjun needs a better 'Saarathi' - that 1400 bhp engine is too burdened for him, so DRDO goys better finish that 1500 bhp local engine project ASAP

 

[Azaad]

Just do the Radar and 1000km Ballistic Missile Maxxing. Weather the storm of low squadron strength for next 5 years and everything will be normal.
Most important of any of jet deal is to spend towards engines, these MoD dogs dont even have pennies for FTB or engine development.
We have an technologically illiterate dehati swine as Defence minister, And identically it shows in the top ranks of the customer tier forces too.

View: https://youtu.be/_GR-NlTcyy0?si=t1GT6ry4s3fiYYIT

 

[Azaad]

Govt will raise defence budget on par with overall economy, we could get stuck in a position where USSR was starting from 1980s where military spending was way ahead of their economic growth.

Given we are having difficulties maintaining 7% growth, spending on defence could be a huge gamble for govt.

In the event , GoI is following your line of thought & doing the bare minimum for defence which in turn has earned Modi the moniker of Nehru 2.0 in some quarters a term not wholly undeserving.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

View: https://youtu.be/_GR-NlTcyy0?si=t1GT6ry4s3fiYYIT

Dafuq happened to awacs tho, they changed body type and no news since then.