LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

fire starter said:

View: https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1811233429196841226?s=19
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Quite possibly the effect of reservation related nonsensical policies. Defence related industry should never have any reservation related postings, promotion etc...pure merit, performance and delivery of project milestones within time should be the factors in deciding promotion etc...but hey we don't want to offend anyone isn't it ? So continue such 🍌 republic schemes and see the outcomes...hope mk2 doesn't get delayed due to this . Either privatise dpsu or enforce above policies, else bow down to chinkas who are literally rubber stamping aircraft, engines and ships..
 
America has us by the balls!

www.hindustantimes.com

IAF flags concern over delay in new Tejas LCA

IAF expresses concern over delays in Tejas LCA Mk-1A programme by HAL, citing risks to combat capabilities.
www.hindustantimes.com www.hindustantimes.com

Many in the air force are, however, sceptical about the LCA Mk-1A deadlines being met, and one of the main reasons for that is the lingering delay in the supply of the F404 engines to HAL by US firm GE Aerospace. The delivery of the engines is delayed by around 10 months, HT has learnt.

The LCA Mk-1A made its maiden sortie from an HAL facility in Bengaluru on March 28.

“There are some observations relating to the LCA Mk-1A’s maiden flight and then there is the engine issue. HAL doesn’t have enough engines to deliver the 16 aircraft this year,” said the IAF officer cited above.
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Vinash said:
America has us by the balls!

www.hindustantimes.com

IAF flags concern over delay in new Tejas LCA

IAF expresses concern over delays in Tejas LCA Mk-1A programme by HAL, citing risks to combat capabilities.
www.hindustantimes.com www.hindustantimes.com
Click to expand...

Well I really hope that the Americans come out in the open and stop GE-404 because it means finally the Goi will quickly realize that Kaveri program is the way to go and give it full backing. Just as it did with GSLV program.
 
Vinash said:
America has us by the balls!

www.hindustantimes.com

IAF flags concern over delay in new Tejas LCA

IAF expresses concern over delays in Tejas LCA Mk-1A programme by HAL, citing risks to combat capabilities.
www.hindustantimes.com www.hindustantimes.com
Click to expand...

Binayak95 said:
oh please.. Titanium shortage world over thanks to mfs in China.
Click to expand...


To add more context

- 75 404s already delivered for the previous orders
- south korea assembles their own GE 404 and have started 414 assembly, no indications that their supply has been effected
- delay in supply already raised in Nov 2+2 meeting ,
- GE aerospace still hasn't recovered from pandemic shutdown and boeing fiasco must have hurt GE too
- in their 2024 internal investor call, GE has already factored in their India orders along with other countries.
- GE annual production rate(F110, F404, F414 combined) is around 100-120 per annum.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...ter-jet-engines-india-is-big-deal-2023-06-22/


Screenshot 2024-07-12 at 12.21.10 PM.png

2024 investor call

2023

2023 GE Investor Conference | General Electric

The GE Leadership team presented.
www.ge.com www.ge.com
 
Last edited:
Vinash said:
America has us by the balls!

www.hindustantimes.com

IAF flags concern over delay in new Tejas LCA

IAF expresses concern over delays in Tejas LCA Mk-1A programme by HAL, citing risks to combat capabilities.
www.hindustantimes.com www.hindustantimes.com
Click to expand...

We handed them our balls on a silver platter, of course they will pull on it.

Blademaster said:
Well I really hope that the Americans come out in the open and stop GE-404 because it means finally the Goi will quickly realize that Kaveri program is the way to go and give it full backing. Just as it did with GSLV program.
Click to expand...

Yeah, so 10 years more of PSU babus eating samosas & kachoris and delivering nothing ?

--------------------------------

Fact is our politicians and MoD babus are as brainless as desi fanboys who lack vision and practical thinking. Which big-brained idiot thought reliance on American engines for our entire future fighter programs will be a good idea ?

What harm would it be if ordered 72 Rafale's and then took our sweet time (which we are anyway taking) to develop Tejas / AMCA ?
 
mist_consecutive said:
We handed them our balls on a silver platter, of course they will pull on it.



Yeah, so 10 years more of PSU babus eating samosas & kachoris and delivering nothing ?

--------------------------------

Fact is our politicians and MoD babus are as brainless as desi fanboys who lack vision and practical thinking. Which big-brained idiot thought reliance on American engines for our entire future fighter programs will be a good idea ?

What harm would it be if ordered 72 Rafale's and then took our sweet time (which we are anyway taking) to develop Tejas / AMCA ?
Click to expand...

You know very well what will happen if we don't back the Kaveri program. We will never be able to break away free of western control and be truly independent. Don't be too blackpilled. If we spent all that money on Rafales and western products we will not have the money to fund our weapon and engine development programs. That is why GE, Safran, RR are pitching so hard for us to fund their program because if we fund their program, we cannot fund our own program and we will remain their bitch.
 
mist_consecutive said:
We handed them our balls on a silver platter, of course they will pull on it.



Yeah, so 10 years more of PSU babus eating samosas & kachoris and delivering nothing ?

--------------------------------

Fact is our politicians and MoD babus are as brainless as desi fanboys who lack vision and practical thinking. Which big-brained idiot thought reliance on American engines for our entire future fighter programs will be a good idea ?

What harm would it be if ordered 72 Rafale's and then took our sweet time (which we are anyway taking) to develop Tejas / AMCA ?
Click to expand...
i think what GE doing is suicidal move they are arm twisting HAL to finalize GE414 deal on their price tag and less TOT, because they know once LCA repetitive order finalized India have to agree every after sales agreement for GE404 supply and support deals, more over additional Tejas mk2 and Korean KF21 production secures their order book for next decade, who ever thought USA will be like Russians have to be trailed for treason.
 
mist_consecutive said:
Yeah, so 10 years more of PSU babus eating samosas & kachoris and delivering nothing ?

--------------------------------

Fact is our politicians and MoD babus are as brainless as desi fanboys who lack vision and practical thinking. Which big-brained idiot thought reliance on American engines for our entire future fighter programs will be a good idea ?

What harm would it be if ordered 72 Rafale's and then took our sweet time (which we are anyway taking) to develop Tejas / AMCA ?
Click to expand...
If GE has not delivered the engines it was contracted to deliver that is not an Indian, self induced problem, so a delay in production and delivery sounds inevitable.

The problem with ordering more Rafales is that they are sold out for years ahead. At this point IAF has to rely on HAL for fighter supplies in the short term.

Instead of talking about buying used M2K, it would be wise for India to actually buy some and anything else that could be useful - the scrap ex-RAF Jaguars, perhaps - anything for the IAF to keep its existing types flying.

By the way, Peru just announced it would be buying new fighters (probably FA-50). I think that Peru will be retiring a number of M2K. Have the babus been in contact yet to see what they are like with a view to possibly buying them? Are they talking to France about buying some of their M2K?
 
rone said:
i think what GE doing is suicidal move they are arm twisting HAL to finalize GE414 deal on their price tag and less TOT, because they know once LCA repetitive order finalized India have to agree every after sales agreement for GE404 supply and support deals, more over additional Tejas mk2 and Korean KF21 production secures their order book for next decade, who ever thought USA will be like Russians have to be trailed for treason.
Click to expand...
Terms of ToT with GE are already decided which is how the US administration approved of it & Congress permitted it . Ditto for the price.

What remains to be thrashed out are the modalities & finer points.

Once that's accomplished you have an agreement between HAL & GE. Btw BHEL & HAL already have an agreement with GE & RR respectively for electrical propulsion systems for the IN. That would've been cleared by the US & UK governments too .
 
rone said:
i think what GE doing is suicidal move they are arm twisting HAL to finalize GE414 deal on their price tag and less TOT, because they know once LCA repetitive order finalized India have to agree every after sales agreement for GE404 supply and support deals, more over additional Tejas mk2 and Korean KF21 production secures their order book for next decade, who ever thought USA will be like Russians have to be trailed for treason.
Click to expand...
Its not any arm twisting, geopolitical pressure tactic or any of it.
Thanks to sanctions, China has the easiest access to Russian titanium. Them chinks are hoarding most of the titanium and charging exorbitant amounts to export - in exchange for flight computers and FPGAs for russian missiles.

There's a global shortage of titanium which has affected Indian production of AL31Fs, RD33s and Sukhoi frames. Which is why Modi went to Moscow to secure a titanium supply. Which we will then pass on to the Americans for our engines.

Welcome to the cold war 2 - where enemies sell each other stuff through baniyas.
 
Binayak95 said:
Its not any arm twisting, geopolitical pressure tactic or any of it.
Thanks to sanctions, China has the easiest access to Russian titanium. Them chinks are hoarding most of the titanium and charging exorbitant amounts to export - in exchange for flight computers and FPGAs for russian missiles.

There's a global shortage of titanium which has affected Indian production of AL31Fs, RD33s and Sukhoi frames. Which is why Modi went to Moscow to secure a titanium supply. Which we will then pass on to the Americans for our engines.

Welcome to the cold war 2 - where enemies sell each other stuff through baniyas.
Click to expand...
We are those baniyas.
 
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Blademaster said:
You know very well what will happen if we don't back the Kaveri program. We will never be able to break away free of western control and be truly independent. Don't be too blackpilled. If we spent all that money on Rafales and western products we will not have the money to fund our weapon and engine development programs. That is why GE, Safran, RR are pitching so hard for us to fund their program because if we fund their program, we cannot fund our own program and we will remain their bitch.
Click to expand...

Choose one -
  • Arunachal Pradesh + Kashmir + Ladakh (our territory)
  • Kaveri Engine (It makes cool jet engine sound).
And MoD chose the second one. That's how retarted the decision has been.

We don't have money to buy Rafales ? Excuse me sir aren't we the 5th largest economy, and soon to be 3rd ? Egypt being 31st in economy rankings has 54 Rafales, did they sell their Pyramids to buy ?

rone said:
i think what GE doing is suicidal move they are arm twisting HAL to finalize GE414 deal on their price tag and less TOT, because they know once LCA repetitive order finalized India have to agree every after sales agreement for GE404 supply and support deals, more over additional Tejas mk2 and Korean KF21 production secures their order book for next decade, who ever thought USA will be like Russians have to be trailed for treason.
Click to expand...

And Modi going to Russia and hugging Putin on the next day Russia bomb's a children's hospital isn't suicidal ? Playing the fence-sitter will get us hated by both sides, and when we will need friends no one will hep us.

Spitfire IX said:
If GE has not delivered the engines it was contracted to deliver that is not an Indian, self induced problem, so a delay in production and delivery sounds inevitable.
Click to expand...

Massive short-sightedness in planning. USA is infamous for sanctions and arm-twisiting with their defence equipments. If your winter rations gets eaten by boars is it "inevitable" or you are the dumb one for not protecting it properly ?

The problem with ordering more Rafales is that they are sold out for years ahead. At this point IAF has to rely on HAL for fighter supplies in the short term.
Click to expand...

They should have been ordered in 2017 when we ordered 36 Rafales. Mf gujju baniyas think fighter jets are sev bhujiya if we can fry our own why buy from phoren.
 
mist_consecutive said:
Playing the fence-sitter will get us hated by both sides, and when we will need friends no one will hep us.
Click to expand...
“Hate, friends “ - no such things in geo politics. If others hate us so be it, as long as there is not action taken to hurt us economically or militarily. And I need not tell you there are no ‘friends’ in geo politics. Just interests and national security.
 
mist_consecutive said:
Choose one -
  • Arunachal Pradesh + Kashmir + Ladakh (our territory)
  • Kaveri Engine (It makes cool jet engine sound).
And MoD chose the second one. That's how retarted the decision has been.

We don't have money to buy Rafales ? Excuse me sir aren't we the 5th largest economy, and soon to be 3rd ? Egypt being 31st in economy rankings has 54 Rafales, did they sell their Pyramids to buy ?



And Modi going to Russia and hugging Putin on the next day Russia bomb's a children's hospital isn't suicidal ? Playing the fence-sitter will get us hated by both sides, and when we will need friends no one will hep us.



Massive short-sightedness in planning. USA is infamous for sanctions and arm-twisiting with their defence equipments. If your winter rations gets eaten by boars is it "inevitable" or you are the dumb one for not protecting it properly ?



They should have been ordered in 2017 when we ordered 36 Rafales. Mf gujju baniyas think fighter jets are sev bhujiya if we can fry our own why buy from phoren.
Click to expand...

Don't kid yourself about the US and the West. They only care enough about us to get us to ditch Russia. Once we do that, we have no value because then no one else would trust us and US and the West would ditch us in a jiffy and we would have lost the trust of a time trusted ally forever.

So no, I disagree with all of your points above. Modi is doing the right thing by making sure that India keeps her time tested ally and all weather friend, Russia no matter how much pressure US brings.

Do not be so short sighted.
 
GE Aerospace says working with HAL to fix new Tejas LCA engine supply delay

New Delhi: US engine maker GE Aerospace on Friday said it is working with state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to fix issues related to the delay in the supply of its F4O4 engines for the Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA Mk-1A) programme, attributing it to supply chain bottlenecks in the aerospace industry.

The supply of the F404 engines, delayed by around ten months, has a direct bearing on the new fighter jet’s delivery timeline.

The aerospace industry continues to experience unprecedented supply chain pressures, a GE Aerospace spokesperson said. “GE Aerospace is working with our partner HAL and suppliers to resolve constraints and deliver F404-IN20 engines for the LCA Mk1 (A) program.”

The statement was in response to HT queries on the reasons for the delay and steps being taken to fix the problem, as the programme is crucial for the Indian Air Force, which is grappling with a shortage of fighter squadrons.

It came a day after HT reported that the IAF was concerned about the current pace of the LCA Mk-1A programme because of the possible risks a delay in the induction of new fighter planes could pose to the air force’s combat effectiveness, and has flagged the hot-button issue to plane maker HAL, calling for timely execution of the Rs.48,000-crore contract for 83 jets.

To be sure, the delivery of the 16 fighters and the ones to follow, however, hinges on GE Aerospace’s ability to speed up deliveries of the engines, as the few with HAL are insufficient to meet the requirement.

Many in the air force are sceptical about the LCA Mk-1A deadlines being met, and one of the main reasons for that is the lingering delay in the supply of the F404 engines. The single-engine Mk-1A will be a replacement for the IAF’s Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 fighter.

HAL officials on Thursday acknowledged the engine delay issue but said the plane maker was working towards resolving it and has plans in place to ensure that the project doesn’t suffer.

“We are hoping to get some F404 engines to deliver 16 Mk-1A aircraft in FY 2024-25. If there is more delay, HAL will still keep building the planes and fly them with Category B engines (reserve ones). When the GE engines come, we will fit those on the aircraft and deliver the planes to IAF,” an official said.

Even as doubts shroud the delivery schedule of the LCA Mk-1A jets, more are to be ordered soon. In April, the defence ministry issued a tender to HAL for the proposed acquisition of 97 more LCA Mk-1As to strengthen the air force’s capabilities. The new fighter planes are expected to cost around Rs.67,000 crore.

HAL is looking at a long-term partnership with GE Aerospace. The two firms signed a memorandum of understanding in Washington in June 2023 to produce 99 F414 engines for the future LCA Mk-2 programme during PM Narendra Modi’s visit. The deal will involve an 80% transfer of technology (ToT) and is estimated to be worth around $1 billion.

The ToT for the F414s will cover 11 critical areas many of which were entirely off-limits more than a decade ago when the US and India began talks on the possible production of the engines in the country. Back then, the US agreed to only 58% technology transfer, keeping a string of key engine technologies out of India’s reach, as previously reported by HT.

The F414 has evolved from the F404 engine that powers the existing Mk-1 aircraft and will power the new Mk-1A variants and is imported from the US. The local production of the F414 engines is expected to result in the Mk-2 jets having an indigenous content of 75% compared to 55%-60% in Mk-1A and 50% in Mk-1.

Forty Mk-1 jets operated by IAF are in the initial operational clearance (IOC) and the more advanced final operational clearance (FOC) configurations — the first variants of LCA.

HAL will set up a new engine complex for producing the F414 engines as existing capacities are insufficient for the programme.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hi...engine-for-tejas-lca-101720787506339-amp.html
 
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