ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[ArjunMK1A]

AMCA designers should tinker around IWB Weapons loadout. 4 BVR is way too low. At least 6 BVR missiles should be a norm. Also designers should check SWB also.

 

[BHARAT KA BETA]

AMCA designers should tinker around IWB Weapons loadout. 4 BVR is way too low. At least 6 BVR missiles should be a norm. Also designers should check SWB also.

Absolutely Right... 6 BVR IN IWB is a basic standard.

 

[Asmodeus]

Even if contract for mrfa is signed toady we aren't going to see first rafale in six years by that time Tejas mk2 mini rafale will be here

1) Mk2 is equivalent to Rafale as stated by Air chief not so long ago


2)If we sign a deal, it will be MII hence a JV with private player under new production line will be established, (as MRO cum production) the only remaining issue is if French can supply enough critical components which will not be produced under ToT, but looking at recent devlopements that they boosted their production rate to 36 jets/year I don't its a problem anymore..


3)Also Russ-Ukr seems to near the end, so more suppliers will be freed up geo-politically speaking.

The only positive thing in above points is at the end there will be private entity to compete with HAL.. if everything goes as planned.

 

[username unkown]

1) Mk2 is equivalent to Rafale as stated by Air chief not so long ago


2)If we sign a deal, it will be MII hence a JV with private player under new production line will be established, (as MRO cum production) the only remaining issue is if French can supply enough critical components which will not be produced under ToT, but looking at recent devlopements that they boosted their production rate to 36 jets/year I don't its a problem anymore..


3)Also Russ-Ukr seems to near the end, so more suppliers will be freed up geo-politically speaking.

The only positive thing in above points is at the end there will be private entity to compete with HAL.. if everything goes as planned.

Even with 36 jets per year have you seen total orders for rafale and its delivery backlogs when we first ordered 36 rafale there was no supply chain issue how many years after did we get our first rafale

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

Even with 36 jets per year have you seen total orders for rafale and its delivery backlogs when we first ordered 36 rafale there was no supply chain issue how many years after did we get our first rafale

When we placed orders for Rafale production rate was 12ac/annum... now it's 36... with Dassault planning to increase to 60.

We received 1st aircraft in Oct 2019 exactly 3 yrs after the deal signing in Sept 2016... and the time gap was not only bcoz of production rate... building ground support infra and pilot training also takes time.

 

[Asmodeus]

Guys I have seen our Ninda Turtle a lot confident than usual, The kind which comes from doing the due work/process and things go your way.. I am hopeful. Thoughts?




View: https://x.com/rajnathsingh/status/1901537653746516221

 

[Spitfire IX]

1) Mk2 is equivalent to Rafale as stated by Air chief not so long ago

Whether it is or not does not seem very important to me. I imagine that some or most, possibly all systems on Mk2 will not be up to Rafale levels but providing they are adequate in performance, they can be improved over the life of the aircraft. I would say that the immediate IAF need is more fighters quickly, whether good or passable.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

View: https://x.com/prudhvitej32/status/1893342820221485123

if EOTS will present in tejas mark 2...than we dont need infrared sensor nd targetting pods in tejas mark 2. but infrared sensor will present in tejas mark 2. so EOTS not make sense in tejas mark 2. but i wish it should be.

 

[randombully]

if EOTS will present in tejas mark 2...than we dont need infrared sensor nd targetting pods in tejas mark 2. but infrared sensor will present in tejas mark 2. so EOTS not make sense in tejas mark 2. but i wish it should be.

Eots= irst(with flir)+ Laser targeting designator in a crystal dome for stealth reason.
Mk2 already has IRST.
It's not a stealth jet, so crystal dome would be a waste of money.
Integrated laser designator is also for stealth reason, because carrying external pod for laser designator will take away stealth, but again mk2 is not s stealth jet, so it can carry an external pod.
laser pods in modern warfare only have "niche" uses, some even question if laser targeting pod is even needed in future with the advantages of gps/ins, IR/EO guided bombs

 

[Asmodeus]

Whether it is or not does not seem very important to me. I imagine that some or most, possibly all systems on Mk2 will not be up to Rafale levels but providing they are adequate in performance, they can be improved over the life of the aircraft. I would say that the immediate IAF need is more fighters quickly, whether good or passable.

Brother I get your point but why are you being so hesitant and afraid? mk2 has GaN Radar that alone will makes it superior to Rafale.. Maneuverability is not everything.
If air chief said it despite his love for MRFA and Rafale altogether then I don't know what will make you believe it.

I generally believe indigenous system is always better than imported one, not because we can modify or mentain or upgrade it... But because the hurdles they have put in place to not induct any subpar/onpar weapon when import option is available.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Brother I get your point but why are you being so hesitant and afraid? mk2 has GaN Radar that alone will makes it superior to Rafale.. Maneuverability is not everything.
If air chief said it despite his love for MRFA and Rafale altogether then I don't know what will make you believe it.

I generally believe indigenous system is always better than imported one, not because we can modify or mentain or upgrade it... But because the hurdles they have put in place to not induct any subpar/onpar weapon when import option is available.

Good to hear Mk2 radar promises to be better than Rafale's. I would welcome seeing Mk2 in production because (a) IAF needs more fighters (b) Mk2 should be much more capable than Mk1A (c) Mk2 may see the HAL monopoly in fighter assembly end (d) Mk2 is a much better prospect for export in my view

 

[randombully]

Good to hear Mk2 radar promises to be better than Rafale's. I would welcome seeing Mk2 in production because (a) IAF needs more fighters (b) Mk2 should be much more capable than Mk1A (c) Mk2 may see the HAL monopoly in fighter assembly end (d) Mk2 is a much better prospect for export in my view

The air cheif in the comment, most likely talked about physical characteristics of mk2 and rafale, as both are "medium weight fighters".
So a twin engine and larger medium weight fighter like rafale will have more range, payload, endurance than a single engine medium weight fighter like Tejas mk2.
Because In terms of avionics tejas mk2 will not be in any way inferior to rafale f4 version.
But again, single engined have their own benefits in being cheaper, lower operating and Maintenance cost etc, airforce itself agreed to still make the mk2 version single engine, instead of two engine, even though tejas and tejasmk2 are basically completely different aircraft at this point, its like f18hornet and f18 super hornet.

 

[Hari Sud]

Dear PM Modi

The Pakistan interests have mounted a psychological pressure on India by buying a third rate stealth jet from China to be delivered in three years. They are quoting Indian media sources to say that Indian pilots are getting scarred to face the Pakistani stealth fighters. Hence, the Pakistanis have a psychological advantage in the air.

Now if we do not go to buy a better stealth fighter than Chinese stealth fighter then that psychological advantage now with Pakistan will become permanent. Mismanagement by DRDO of the whole LCA 1 & 2, AMCA has put Indian equivalent 10 years away. And there is no way out of it. Hence stop dithering. Let the Pakistanis know that our stealth fighter purchase is now coming sooner than later.

Remember in fifties & early sixties, India was stuck with fighting Pakistani F-86 and F-104 fighters with inferior Gnat, Toofanis, Mystere and Hunter fighters. The Indian fighters and pilots fought well but lost more planes and pilots. If the war starts in 2030 when Pakistanis have stealth fighter and we have none then the same as in 1965 will be repeated. Shame will be ours.

Hence, with utmost due respect I urge you to begin the stealth fighter ordering to remove the psychological advantage which the Pakistanis have managed to have. Worst case scenario, cancel the MRFA purchase and ignore that shout by Airforce for 45 squadrons. Get the stealth fighters first and then continue to build LCA 2 and 1 to make up the numbers.

Cheers

Hari Sud

 

[Vishnugupt]

Dear PM Modi

The Pakistan interests have mounted a psychological pressure on India by buying a third rate stealth jet from China to be delivered in three years. They are quoting Indian media sources to say that Indian pilots are getting scarred to face the Pakistani stealth fighters. Hence, the Pakistanis have a psychological advantage in the air.

Now if we do not go to buy a better stealth fighter than Chinese stealth fighter then that psychological advantage now with Pakistan will become permanent. Mismanagement by DRDO of the whole LCA 1 & 2, AMCA has put Indian equivalent 10 years away. And there is no way out of it. Hence stop dithering. Let the Pakistanis know that our stealth fighter purchase is now coming sooner than later.

Remember in fifties & early sixties, India was stuck with fighting Pakistani F-86 and F-104 fighters with inferior Gnat, Toofanis, Mystere and Hunter fighters. The Indian fighters and pilots fought well but lost more planes and pilots. If the war starts in 2030 when Pakistanis have stealth fighter and we have none then the same as in 1965 will be repeated. Shame will be ours.

Hence, with utmost due respect I urge you to begin the stealth fighter ordering to remove the psychological advantage which the Pakistanis have managed to have. Worst case scenario, cancel the MRFA purchase and ignore that shout by Airforce for 45 squadrons. Get the stealth fighters first and then continue to build LCA 2 and 1 to make up the numbers.

Cheers

Hari Sud

I strongly disagree with you. This is exactly the fear mongering which keeping us in import loop.

India has to swallow bitter pill, hold the nerve and wait for Tejas and AMCA. Otherwise we will see another Marut death.

Ukraine war has proved beyond the doubt that one cannot win a war on borrowed weapons.

Better mass produce whatever options we have in the home.

 

[randombully]

I strongly disagree with you. This is exactly the fear mongering which keeping us in import loop.

India has to swallow bitter pill, hold the nerve and wait for Tejas and AMCA. Otherwise we will see another Marut death.

Ukraine war has provided beyond the doubt that one cannot win a war on borrowed weapons.

Better mass produce whatever options we have in the home.

He also forgets, our missile capability( also missile manufacturing and industry)has increased manifolds, we can severly limit pak airforce capability to operate by destroying their airbase and other infra, Pakistanis lack of large airdefense network also doesn't help much.
So Even if they buy 40 stealth jets, it ain't gonna change much in actual war.
though fear mongering will increase, because " ITS A 5TH GEN STEALTH JET"
The only time they can have major effect Is if a minor limited conflict happens, but again would you wanna use airforce to escalate that conflict?

It's not 50s and 60s anymore.

 

[Hari Sud]

He also forgets, our missile capability( also missile manufacturing and industry)has increased manifolds, we can severly limit pak airforce capability to operate by destroying their airbase and other infra, Pakistanis lack of large airdefense network also doesn't help much.
So Even if they buy 40 stealth jets, it ain't gonna change much in actual war.
though fear mongering will increase, because " ITS A 5TH GEN STEALTH JET"
The only time they can have major effect Is if a minor limited conflict happens, but again would you wanna use airforce to escalate that conflict?

It's not 50s and 60s anymore.

Your opinion is music to my ears. May be 40 stealth fighters of dubious quality will not make a hell of lot of difference.

 

[randombully]

Your opinion is music to my ears. May be 40 stealth fighters of dubious quality will not make a hell of lot of difference.

They can make "significant enough" difference if pak can fully utilise them.
But then you need an entire infra, ecosystem and support systems to do that.
Your airbase should be heavily defended with airdefense systems and redundant enough to still be operational after some strikes, also Capabilities to rebuilt it back to functional state fast.
Pak lacks all of these.

Stealth fighters to maintain stealth also need to limit emission, like limit radar emissions, Dara link emission, so they also kind of fly blind, in this state they need support from other systems, which pak lacks.
And their older awacs and ew planes being of western origin will not be compatible with "chinese" stealth jets.
Then also comes heavy maintainance and relatively low availability of 5th gen, and you do need extensive infra and industry and to support it, pak will highly struggle in this field.

now, they would still be a "threat", not a massive one like fearmongring is happening.
The massive threat ones are chinese ones, because of the sheer no. Of stealth jets chinks have and they can fully utilise and support those jets.

 

[BON PLAN]

Absolutely Right... 6 BVR IN IWB is a basic standard.

Not a single fighter used so many medium range missile in a single patrol.
4 is more than enough, specially on a small fighter.

 

[BON PLAN]

Good to hear Mk2 radar promises to be better than Rafale's. I would welcome seeing Mk2 in production because (a) IAF needs more fighters (b) Mk2 should be much more capable than Mk1A (c) Mk2 may see the HAL monopoly in fighter assembly end (d) Mk2 is a much better prospect for export in my view

what kind of Rafale radar ?
The AESA AsGa actual one or the XG GaN one ?

 

[BHARAT KA BETA]

Not a single fighter used so many medium range missile in a single patrol.
4 is more than enough, specially on a small fighter.

You can't limit your capacity based on PAST EXPERIENCE & DATAS....you have to be ready for the EXTREME POSSIBLE SITUATIONS IN FUTURE...& TO HAVE AN EDGE ON YOUR POTENTIAL ENEMY....I know it'll be very rare situation to use 6 BVR-AAM is any combat situation but, HAVING THE EXTRA PUNCH INNYOUR POCKET, YOU'LL ALWAYS REMAIN ONE STEP AHEAD OF YOUR OPPONENT.