AHCA (Advanced Heavy Combat Aircraft) concept, 5/5.5/6gen? Su-30MKI replacement? TEDBF 2.0?

[Kedar]

But 6th gen will rely extensively on a large air fleet (swarm) of unmanned wingmen of various types, acting as everything from scouts, vanguards, EW platforms, missile trucks, refuellers to even a type of CIWS drone whose job will be to keep perimeter security around the fleet, carrying a bunch of tiny HTK CIWS missiles and being sacrificable, colliding with incoming threats to protect the fleet if its HTK CIWS missiles run out tackling a saturation attack. A single 6th gen Fighter (or maybe a flight of them) will therefore be the nucleus and will coordinate a sizeable UAV fleet centered around itself.

They may all be sharing sensor data in a hub-spoke topology with very little cross-communication between the UAVs (as they'll likely only share data to maintain formation or conduct manuevers like a swarm). The decisions will likely be made in the manned platform and therefore the bulk of data flow will be to and from the 6th gen fighter.

Current progress in both CPU/GPU, photonic-electronics combination, AI and dense sat constellations are all on the way to get to unmanned side of things both on ground and air and some extent water. But not sure why hub and spoke...it will be more of autonomous and network of hub and spokes if at all. I would imagine laser based AD may see another chance considering the relative uselessness of physical missiles which can be overwhelmed like we already see now. This leads to more powerful portable power generators and better optics. Sophistication you mentioned is at a minimum of 7 to 8th generation. Definitely not 6th, 5th gen is almost dud....really no particularly proven capabilities other than yapping about stealth from ships to tanks to aircrafts. I actually think unmanned drones like predator or globalhawk as more of 5th gen.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

The size, shape, weight, structure of AHCA would depend on type & number of weapons it would carry.

LEARNING LESSONS FROM 5GEN JETS F-22, F-35, Su-57
New gen jets would require new gen weapons with modified shape & folding fins, perhaps a different attck profile, like F-22 & F-35 will get MAKO, AGM-88E AARGM-ER, Kh-58UShKE, etc.
For example it is not possible or feasible for Su-57 to carry like big missile even if its tandem IWBs are joined.


We see that IWBs of both F-22 & Su-57 have some disadvantage.
Su-57 carries only 4 AAMs currently, may be 6 in future.
F-22 cannot carry weapon bigger than JDAM currently. MLU might add something.


Su-57 can carry cruise missle, Kh-58UShKE internally.


A bigger collage shows some current weapons fit, some don't.


A new jet can combine both capability by having multiple IWBs. the centerline IWB will carry customized CrM, AShM, ARM, etc.
And 2 parallel IWBs can carry 2 AAMs each, total 4.
If we imagine a modified diagram of Su-57 & F-22 then it would look like following:
NOTE - This is just preliminary & notional, otherwise the engines & internal components will obviously have to be adjusted.


The following is 1 of the many examples already created by CAD artist Rodrigo Avella in his vision of F/A-XX :
The IWB bottom edge would be wider than F-22.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

A preliminary look into engine requirement of AHCA concept:
The JV can be a great opportunity only if we develop 2 engines - 1 regular turbofan for medium jets & 1 VCE for next gen heavy class jet bcoz EU is also developing it.
Among IWB jets, F-22 has highest capacity of 8 AAMs of around 1.1 tons & total STOW or stealthy take-off weight (not MTOW) of around 29 tons.
Su-57 & J-20 stealthy STOW are identical around 29-30 tons.
In my concept if i add more internal AAMs or remove 2 BVR-AAMs & add 2 custom design AShM, ARM like in class of following weapons -
- AGM-158 JASSM (2x1 ton) or LRASM (2x1.2 tons),
- or 4 NSM/JSM (4x416 Kg)
- or 4 AGM-154 JSOW (4x500 Kg)
- or 4 AGM-88G AARGM-ER (4x360 Kg)
- or customized Rudram (2/4)
then the STOW adds 2 more tons & reaches 31-32 tons.

F-22's wet T/STOW = 2x(156-165 KN) /9.8 /29 tons = 1.1 to 1.16
Su-57's wet T/STOW = 2x(142.2 KN) /9.8 /29.27 tons = 1
J-20's wet T/STOW with claimed thrust of WS-15 = 2x(171-191 KN) /9.8 /30.21 tons = 1.15 to 1.3

So we see that different makers/countries have different opinion on sufficient TWR.
Let's consider minimum wet T/STOW = 1.15.
To maintain that TWR, thrust/engine required= (31-32 tons x 1.15 x 9.8)/2 = 175 - 180 KN wet, what JV should also target.
Meanwhile the R&D & prototyping can continue using existing engines like AL-41 or AL-31.

 

[Tsunami]

Next gen manned fighter is something we might never see in numbers with any Airforce except USA maybe. There is Russia and China still doesn't have a fully operational 5th gen fighter yet and AMCA is on paper only rest everything is just not gonna materialize. SO only US is capable for now to go for a Sixth gen fighter and rest everyone will be considering drones by 2040.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Next gen manned fighter is something we might never see in numbers with any Airforce except USA maybe. There is Russia and China still doesn't have a fully operational 5th gen fighter yet and AMCA is on paper only rest everything is just not gonna materialize. SO only US is capable for now to go for a Sixth gen fighter and rest everyone will be considering drones by 2040.

> In today's & future era, a supreme manned fighter will never ever be seen in high numbers bcoz of UCAV tech catching up.
> I understand that we have lots of political, financial, technical issues like engines, etc but still I personally think that this can be done with collective agreement, initiative, funding, facilities. We're on Page#2 so this is just the beginning of exploring this concept.
> Every gen/era has/had multiple jets. 1 jet doesn't suffice. USA is lucky that having just 260+/- F-22s is ok as the world has not equalized with them & they have massive fleet of 4gen F-15/16/18 & good business with F-35 JSF. Also, whoever wants to attack USA, i mean air-force Vs air-force (including naval jets) must 1st cross Atlantic & Pacific oceans. Also, USA is capitalist country but we are socialist mixed economy.
> Our ISRO has done well, Mangalyaan in budget less than Hollywood movie; PSLV, GSLV, etc. DRDO has done few exceptional things like ABM (Anti-Ballistic Missile) system with PAD (Prithvi Air Defence), Ashwin Ballistic Missile Interceptor, AD-1,2, etc, then KALI electron accelerator with DEW application possibility, etc.
> So we got the brains, it'll take time to level up, depends on GoI/MoD. Americans & Russians are neither aliens nor helped by aliens at Area-51 They are just humans like us, but very management oriented, they get things done either by self orothers.
> IMO, AMCA won't suffice due to limited internal payload & engine thrust. But it can evolve into UCAV wingman for AHCA.