AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[fire starter]

The Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) is an Indian single-seat, twin-engine, fifth-generation stealth, multirole combat aircraft being developed for the Indian Air Force.

 

[fire starter]

Shared aperture antenna for amca.

 

[Kattar]

AMCA as it was visualised in 2009



SOURCE: Livefist Blog maybe

 

[Kattar]

AMCA Windtunnel Model in 2009

 

[fire starter]

 

[fire starter]

Anti collision light and marker light for amca & lca mk2.

 

[Neil (नील/Нил)]

Since the AMCA is going to be a stealth aircraft, I thought it would be great to give everyone here a short introduction to what a stealth aircraft is and what it means to be "stealth". Many enthusiasts claim that stealth technology is "propaganda" and cite examples of shot down stealth aircrafts such as the infamous F-117 Nighthawk.

When we refer to Stealth aircraft, stealth does not mean absolute invisibility and no one is saying that if any aircraft is "Stealth" then it is completely invisible to any radar. Stealth is only reduced detection, the whole point of stealth is that you will have a RCS low enough that you are able to get close enough to your target, shoot your weopons (i.e missiles, bombs etc) before you are detected and the enemy does the same to you, basically you want a "look first & shoot first" capability. Any radar in this world can detect and track any stealth aircraft, for example even a MiG-21's radar would be able to detect & track an F-22 but the distance at which that would happen would be tactically irrelevant since the F-22 would have detected the MiG-21 and already fired its missiles at the MiG-21 long before the MiG-21 would have any clue as to what is happening. The aim of a Stealth plane's design is to reduce the radar cross section (RCS) and it's thermal signature. It's not about Making a plane completely Invisible to the radar because it's not possible, no Aircraft can be 100% invisible from Radar.

 

[fire starter]

Carbon veil- frequency selective surface RAS for amca.

 

[jaijaganath]

Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft prototype expected by 2028-29

As the project for the design and development of the indigenous fifth generation fighter aircraft, Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, makes progress, the Defence Ministry is working out a model for bringing in the private sector in a big way, which is important for timely execution of the project...

www.thehindu.com

 

[jaijaganath]

Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft prototype expected by 2028-29

As the project for the design and development of the indigenous fifth generation fighter aircraft, Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, makes progress, the Defence Ministry is working out a model for bringing in the private sector in a big way, which is important for timely execution of the project...

www.thehindu.com

Tejas mk2 prototype by 2027
AMCA mk1 prototype by 2028-29 and induction by 2034

 

[Spitfire IX]

The private sector was invited to participate in AMCA production a few years ago but expressed no interest. Having not participated in assembling Tejas/Tejas Mk1A, the private sector has no experience in assembling fighters.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

The private sector was invited to participate in AMCA production a few years ago but expressed no interest. Having not participated in assembling Tejas/Tejas Mk1A, the private sector has no experience in assembling fighters.

Tata, Ambani, etc during MRCA days were very interested in bagging the F-16, F-18, Rafale deal.
What happened to them now with AMCA?

 

[Spitfire IX]

Tata, Ambani, etc during MRCA days were very interested in bagging the F-16, F-18, Rafale deal.
What happened to them now with AMCA?

View attachment 1145View attachment 1146View attachment 1147

Some possible reasons why the private sector is not interested in MRCA come to mind:

- no experience of assembling 4G fighters
- dislike of the SPV model proposed
- investment required in studying and negotiating the proposal (possibly with no resulting contract)
- uncertainty regarding cost needed to set up an assembly plant
- uncertainty regarding staffing and training cost

How is a company supposed to accurately cost assembling AMCA given the above?

If GOI wanted to establish an advanced military aviation industrial sector it should have nurtured a non-state owned company in parallel to HAL in my opinion. Had it done that, it might have received more interest in assembling AMCA from the private sector.

 

[Hari Sud]

Modi and Russian Su-57 stealth fighter

Modi is going to Russia. One item on his upcoming visit agenda is discussions on new improved Su-57 (Russian Stealth fighter). Its tandem version is also now available with newer more powerful engine.

The Indian AMCA can proceed. What India does not have is technology and engine of our own to build. Hence it becomes a time consuming effort which will take a long time to evolve and become a laughing stock for boys on this website who always complain about delays and delays.

The alternatives are, steal technology like the Chinese do and get away or develop your own. The latter takes long time. Hence, it is to buy stealth fighter of better capability, since westerners are not selling it to India. In the meantime if Chinese bring two squadrons of their stealth fighter to Tibet and alternatively give two squadrons to Pakistan for free then Indian goose is cooked.

Hence, find out if Russians will part with technology and 40 or 50 of their SU-57 to India in place of MRFA then India is in a better position. In the meantime AMCA could proceed for future with no rush.

Is it possible guys…..?

 

[Spitfire IX]

IAF lacks a 5G fighter. 3 countries make them. Buying from China is out of the question, which leaves US and Russia as possible suppliers. For political reasons operating F-35 is much riskier than Su-57, so why not buy Su-57? As you say, it takes the pressure off getting AMCA developed and into production ASAP.

I note, however, that 4 years after receiving its first Su-75 the Russian air force has a very small number (less than 20?) which makes me wonder how fast they can be made.

If F-35 and Su-75 are too risky, there is always KF-21 to plug the gap for India until AMCA arrives. It is not expensive but probably better than Rafale, Eurofighter etc.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Some possible reasons why the private sector is not interested in MRCA come to mind:
- no experience of assembling 4G fighters

But like i said, they were ready for assembling F-16, F-18, Rafale with training from USA & France ofcourse. Similarly HAL can train them with LCA & SU-30MKI.
It has to start somewhere, someday, somehow. We all get minimum 18 years of school+college education just to do simple jobs to earn living.
TCS (Tata Consultancy Services) has been involved in LCA project, IDK exactly what. May be some other IT MNCs like Infosys, Wipro, Tech Mahindra, etc also got involved so far, IDK. Reliance & Adani have got involved in the aerospace business & weapons making. There are other players like Kalyani, Solar Industries, L&T, Zen technologies, etc who can work at sub-systems level.
Moreover, EU nations had danger from USSR/Russia, but USA did not wait for southern hostile nations like Cuba, Colombia, etc for their R&D. We wan't to be among global leaders, we boast about our global CEOs, but not wan't to start domestic.

- dislike of the SPV model proposed

If they don't have experience in assembly then their capability to design is also years away.
So If they are not designers then who are they to dislike, on what basis?

- investment required in studying and negotiating the proposal (possibly with no resulting contract)

- uncertainty regarding cost needed to set up an assembly plant
- uncertainty regarding staffing and training cost
How is a company supposed to accurately cost assembling AMCA given the above?

MBA grads are highly paid to figure out these things. In the WEST, some DoD guys also attend B-schools in person or online. IDK how it happens here.

If GOI wanted to establish an advanced military aviation industrial sector it should have nurtured a non-state owned company in parallel to HAL in my opinion. Had it done that, it might have received more interest in assembling AMCA from the private sector

Sometimes, i get to watch interviews by journalists of NDTV, Sansad TV, Tarmak Media House, etc like Nitin Gokhale, Vishnu Som, Shiv Aroor, etc & Youtubers. As per those, DoD/GoI wants private sector to lead assembly process in DoD supervision.
Example video-

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Modi and Russian Su-57 stealth fighter

Modi is going to Russia. One item on his upcoming visit agenda is discussions on new improved Su-57 (Russian Stealth fighter). Its tandem version is also now available with newer more powerful engine.

The Indian AMCA can proceed. What India does not have is technology and engine of our own to build. Hence it becomes a time consuming effort which will take a long time to evolve and become a laughing stock for boys on this website who always complain about delays and delays.

The alternatives are, steal technology like the Chinese do and get away or develop your own. The latter takes long time. Hence, it is to buy stealth fighter of better capability, since westerners are not selling it to India. In the meantime if Chinese bring two squadrons of their stealth fighter to Tibet and alternatively give two squadrons to Pakistan for free then Indian goose is cooked.

Hence, find out if Russians will part with technology and 40 or 50 of their SU-57 to India in place of MRFA then India is in a better position. In the meantime AMCA could proceed for future with no rush.

Is it possible guys…..?

So aren't we going to procude a JV engine with Rolls-Royce or Safran for AMCA? news reports that Kaveri R&D has again started to make it better.

Su-57 is a heavy category jet. We parted with Su-57 PAKFA project due to lack of ToT after funding contribution & disagreement on some design aspects. Russia itself has very few Su-57. Future of RuAF is a mystery. They may again target us as a "cash cow". Recently their AL-51 Isdelye-30 engine is making progress so they will give us AL-41 version to upgrade our Su-30MKIs.
Using Su-57 as a stopgap is debatable, but we need AHCA to replace our MKIs. And for that we need good engine for R&D. Either we can make a deal for AL-41 or with USA for engines of their F-15/16 - F110-PW-229, F110-GE-132 (offered on F-16-IN). or we need a JV engine not just for AMCA but for AHCA also.
BTW TFX-Kaan is currently using F110-GE-129.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

IAF lacks a 5G fighter. 3 countries make them. Buying from China is out of the question, which leaves US and Russia as possible suppliers. For political reasons operating F-35 is much riskier than Su-57, so why not buy Su-57? As you say, it takes the pressure off getting AMCA developed and into production ASAP.

I note, however, that 4 years after receiving its first Su-75 the Russian air force has a very small number (less than 20?) which makes me wonder how fast they can be made.

If F-35 and Su-75 are too risky, there is always KF-21 to plug the gap for India until AMCA arrives. It is not expensive but probably better than Rafale, Eurofighter etc.

Until AMCA arrives, Super-Sukhoi upgrade & Rafale have to handle the borders & they have already been deployed & key airbases.
Currently KF-21 Boramae is not 5th gen at all. Our Rafale could be better than it. We dont know how their upgraded 5th gen version will look. In my opinion, rather than acting as a stopgap, it can derail the AMCA project.

 

[Neil (नील/Нил)]

Just a comparison of the F-35's wind tunnel model and the AMCA's Wind Tunnel model (which was showcased in 2022).

AMCA.


F-35.

 

[Blademaster]

Just a comparison of the F-35's wind tunnel model and the AMCA's Wind Tunnel model (which was showcased in 2022).

AMCA.
View attachment 1234

F-35.
View attachment 1236

Why do Indian airplane designers consistently go for smaller air intakes when you know that you need more air intake to get more power?