AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

It'll be a delightful sight seeing our new stealth fighter smoking like a coal fired chimney as it breaks the sound barrier.
View attachment 18107
IAF has the chance of a lifetime to reengine the Mig-29s with GE414s. That'll be a sight :devious:

How bout firing up MIG29 with Kaveri, and surprisingly (or not) less smoke cooming out it compares to rd33.
 
Here she is... Made minimal changes. A simple fuselage plug behind the cockpit & bulged spine. Not much but it'll create enough internal volume to move the shit inside to make room for larger IWB & fueltank
Older horizontals to invest lift slightly.
View attachment 17907

> Do you have freedom to alter this CAD in your ways or has Kuntal Biswas filed a legal copyright at copyright.gov.in?
> You didn't show the underside. It is difficult to visualize the IWB.
> Don't you think Mk2 should be noticeably better in many ways?
> Kuntal has shown EOTS in his latest iteration but still not shown some essential things like Chaff/Flare launcher hatch, Towed decoy hatch, IRST, perhaps DIRCM too. His DAS positions may have a blind spots not giving spherical coverage. I couldn't see side DAS.
> There are 4 other CAD artists i mentioned few months back, but none have produced a full 100% CAD with all the essential stuff of 5gen characteristics. They don't seem to be much interactive & accepting feedback.
> Although i have an idea about certain components but i would like to clarify on these things on the spine circled in RED:
1733811322483.webp
> Why this design being Mk2 also is missing EOTS, DAS, perhaps DIRCM, countermeasure hatches, etc?
> When you have extended forward fuselage behind cockpit & it seems the wingtip has been clipped, then possibly the CoG (Center of Gravity) may have moved ahead of CoL (Center of Lift) which makes a jet more stable, compared to modern fighter jets with digital FCS & CoG behind the CoL, AFAIK.
 
> Do you have freedom to alter this CAD in your ways or has Kuntal Biswas filed a legal copyright at copyright.gov.in?
> You didn't show the underside. It is difficult to visualize the IWB.
> Don't you think Mk2 should be noticeably better in many ways?
> Kuntal has shown EOTS in his latest iteration but still not shown some essential things like Chaff/Flare launcher hatch, Towed decoy hatch, IRST, perhaps DIRCM too. His DAS positions may have a blind spots not giving spherical coverage. I couldn't see side DAS.
> There are 4 other CAD artists i mentioned few months back, but none have produced a full 100% CAD with all the essential stuff of 5gen characteristics. They don't seem to be much interactive & accepting feedback.
> Although i have an idea about certain components but i would like to clarify on these things on the spine circled in RED:
View attachment 18172
> Why this design being Mk2 also is missing EOTS, DAS, perhaps DIRCM, countermeasure hatches, etc?
> When you have extended forward fuselage behind cockpit & it seems the wingtip has been clipped, then possibly the CoG (Center of Gravity) may have moved ahead of CoL (Center of Lift) which makes a jet more stable, compared to modern fighter jets with digital FCS & CoG behind the CoL, AFAIK.
- no i funny have the CAD, plus you can't ask for copyrights on someone else's design
- i don't have it
- no. They mentioned that AMCA Mk2 will not be radical like Tejas Mk2, but minor blockwise improvement.
-those are covered last, not available yet. IRST & EOTS are alternative.
- not all that info is present to public.
- unknown. Kuntal might know.

Lighter stuff usual move forward, or fueltanks which will be emptited 1st to reach combat zone. Understand these are just base shapes. Final location of subsystems are not available this early

PS: I fucked up with the wingtips, got cut by mistake. Plz fix
 
- no i funny have the CAD,
I didn't understand part of your sentence.
plus you can't ask for copyrights on someone else's design
I'm not asking you to claim copyright over his work.
> Has he claimed legal right? Bcoz I noticed that at least 1 artist Murli Yadav has put a "C" symbol on his pics. Then Rodrigo Avella who has made numerous NGAD & F/A-XX CAD has also put the "C" symbol. So i thought of asking.
> If you two worked on same base model then w/o any registered copyright both of you can edit it as you like.
- no. They mentioned that AMCA Mk2 will not be radical like Tejas Mk2, but minor blockwise improvement.
-those are covered last, not available yet.
> Who are "THEY"? ADA? IAF? DRDO?
> Do THEY mean that Tejas Mk2 will be more radical or better than AMCA Mk2?? :facepalm2::ROFLMAO:
> By "noticeably better" i meant showcasing the already existing 5gen characteristics seen TODAY on F-22, F-35, Su-57, J-20. There's nothing radical about things seen TODAY to be implemented after 5-10yrs on AMCA.
> AMCA Mk2 is being quoted as 5.5gen. But nobody is clearly talking what'll be added to 5gen but not completely to be 6gen.
> Hence in the era of upcoming 6gen in West & 5gen in 3rd world nations, there is nothing radical about any MLUed 4gen jet around the world.🤷‍♂️
> And if they want to increase version # with such minor changes then we'll be seeing AMCA Mk10 before retirement. :shocked::bump2::ROFLMAO:
IRST & EOTS are alternative.
You mean only 1 of them will be implemented?
As we all know that F-35's EOTS is called TARGETTING System bcoz it has LD (Laser Designator), not just IR camera.
While IRST has become a function rather than dedicated H/w. The F-35's EOTS also performs the IRST function exactly like Su-3X's OLS by sweeping in azimuth, clear in the videos.
But for the upper hemisphere the F-35's DAS is also multi-functional. It performs MAWS as well as IRST by DIP (Digital Image Processing).
Some CADs show IRST+DAS
1733824944114.webp

- not all that info is present to public.
Public doesn't have to wait for things which are obvious or indispensable.

- unknown. Kuntal might know.
When you have woredon it then why don't you take some guess?
Whether he does or not, he's lagging behind other artists whose CADs seem to be more complete & hence have been showcased more by domestic & foreign websites & Youtubers.
For example this one showing DAS, side radar, IRST, EOTS:
1733825982215.webp
1733825678129.webp
Lighter stuff usual move forward, or fueltanks which will be emptited 1st to reach combat zone. Understand these are just base shapes. Final location of subsystems are not available this early
I think the new approach is to spread the tanks across the fuselage, wrapping around the other components, rather than blocks.
1733826580564.webp
 
What's the use of focusing this much on stealthifying a single engine delta canard with straight vertical stabilizer that will carry external payload.
The sole reality is a single stabilizer. Not impossible that it is fitted with nternal bay(s).
The vertical stabilizer is not so important, if there is not a pure 90° with wings.
 
Koi baat nahi beta, galti hum sabse hoti hai, bas usse seekh lena chahiye.


Bcoz this is an internal part & their customers are qualified & understand the technical vocabulary.
But here most members are from various background incl. non-tech, just enthusiasts for time pass.


:facepalm2::facepalm4: Let's not waste time over timeline when we all got the point.
For West the next product is 6gen :party:
For us the next product is 5gen :cautious: in same timeline


Yes i know that obviously hence I said "basically", not "exactly", as both things use pressurised air only, one from the exhaust, other from mid-engine stages. Thrust is a generic tech-term. Specifically we can say exhaust thrust, & then bleed-air thrust like used in Harrier's RR engine.
Anyways, the point is to understand the technology & feasibility.
Honestly & obviously i cannot know all the Aeronautical Engineering terminologies, but the Coanda effect is already used since previous century on flaps & slats of civil & military jets for takeoff, landing, low speed, roll, pitch. During roll, when one side slat, flap, aeleron moves then the Coanda effect works on 1 side & the air resistance/friction works on other side. Some transport aircrafts use jet engine mounted on top of wing to increase lift. The Slats use the natural air flow, not the engine bleed air
View attachment 17671
View attachment 17669
View attachment 17668



If R&D is happening since 14yrs then we can't say that it is a distant future tech, may be 6gen might use it if its efficiency is good. May be the next stealth jet after B-21 might use it. Time will tell.
View attachment 17680

Then there is something called "Fluid TVC"
View attachment 17699


Some domestic websites are reporting that IIT Kanpur & ADA are working on Fluid TVC for Ghatak UAV.

View attachment 17700

But i wonder if Coanda effect / Fluid TVC / Bleed-air can give high agility, high AoA, tight turns, Cobra, etc kind of maneuvers. Some of these require afterburner.
fluidic vectoring need a higher minimum speed than classical flaps. But it is clearly a futur nice technology.
 
Who are "THEY"? ADA? IAF? DRDO?
> Do THEY mean that Tejas Mk2 will be more radical or better than AMCA Mk2?? :facepalm2::ROFLMAO:
> By "noticeably better" i meant showcasing the already existing 5gen characteristics seen TODAY on F-22, F-35, Su-57, J-20. There's nothing radical about things seen TODAY to be implemented after 5-10yrs on AMCA.
> AMCA Mk2 is being quoted as 5.5gen. But nobody is clearly talking what'll be added to 5gen but not completely to be 6gen.
> Hence in the era of upcoming 6gen in West & 5gen in 3rd world nations, there is nothing radical about any MLUed 4gen jet around the world.🤷‍♂️
> And if they want to increase version # with such minor changes then we'll be seeing AMCA Mk10 before retirement. :shocked::bump2::ROFLMAO:
IRST & EOTS are alternative.
You mean only 1 of them will be implemented?
As we all know that F-35's EOTS is called TARGETTING System bcoz it has LD (Laser Designator), not just IR camera.
While IRST has become a function rather than dedicated H/w. The F-35's EOTS also performs the IRST function exactly like Su-3X's OLS by sweeping in azimuth, clear in the videos.
But for the upper hemisphere the F-35's DAS is also multi-functional. It performs MAWS as well as IRST by DIP (Digital Image Processing).
Some CADs show IRST+DAS

1733824944114.webp



- not all that info is present to public.
Public doesn't have to wait for things which are obvious or indispensable.

- unknown. Kuntal might know.
When you have woredon it then why don't you take some guess?
Whether he does or not, he's lagging behind other artists whose CADs seem to be more complete & hence have been showcased more by domestic & foreign websites & Youtubers.
For example this one showing DAS, side radar, IRST, EOTS:
1733825982215.webp


1733825678129.webp


Lighter stuff usual move forward, or fueltanks which will be emptited 1st to reach combat zone. Understand these are just base shapes. Final location of subsystems are not available this early
I think the new approach is to spread the tanks across the fuselage, wrapping around the other components, rather than blocks.
1733826580564.webp

Other models are extremely inaccurate & takes a lot of guesses & artistic liberties, we stick to whatever info was available on public forums released by ADA. Stuff like RWR positioning isn't available until final prototypes roll out.
Tejas Mark 2 incorporates a lot of drastic design chances, comparable to F-18 & SH-18. AMCA will be more like F-16 blocks. That's what radical change means. Anyways take it up to ADA, if you have some issues with their method & think you can do better

Lastly, see that violet-coloured forward fuel tank in your own shared diagram. That's the cruise-fuel tank.
 
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Other models are extremely inaccurate & takes a lot of guesses & artistic liberties, we stick to whatever info was available on public forums released by ADA. Stuff like RWR positioning isn't available until final prototypes roll out.
Well, that's your choice obviously but you have opportunity to be more accurate & popular.:cool::coool:🤩
Whatever you guys have done so far is for fun & time pass only, right? Unless you guys are part of DoD or in contract with them.
I just asked for a labeled diagram. I'm sure while making the CAD you guys went through cutaway diagrams on Google, then what's the problem in abelling your own work?🤔:confusedd:
Enthusiasts may refer to a more complete CAD.

Tejas Mark 2 incorporates a lot of drastic design chances, comparable to F-18 & SH-18. AMCA will be more like F-16 blocks. That's what radical change means.
> Changes like? Could you please be more informative?
> You think that F-18 E/F is radical to A/B/C/D models but F-16 block-70/72 is not much advanced compared to previous blocks?
> On basis of F-16 block differences, you're comparing AMCA with what? LCA?

Anyways take it up to ADA, if you have some issues with their method & think you can do better
No, no, please don't reply like this, it looks disrespectful. Everybody knows that a regular citizen can't take it up to ADA, DRDO, HAL, etc. Public can challenge a govt. decision online & offline in various ways, but there are rarely any talk show where qualified techies are challenging DoD products precisely. At most people criticie the delays, scams, cost, etc, that too politically rather than technically.

think you can do better
I'm low IQ average guy :eric:but defiinitely qualified Sr. IT engineer, capable of contributing something useful superficially, not deeply. Honestly, I luckily 🤞got chance to do B.E. in Comp.Tech. bcoz i was good in computer programming since school days, but i never did well with PCM & subjects based on them.🤢
Our college senior was topper🏆🎓, scored high in GATE exam & worked on LCA.:lca: He wasn't good in programming💻 while i have certificates & photos of winning inter-college competitions.:party: He wasn't creative with weapons, aircrafts but just good with crunching PCM numericals. But as per our education system the only way of entry into DRDO, HAL, NAL, etc is high grades. Just creativity is not enough.:smiley-crying:🤷‍♂️
I hope this much honest introduction is enough.
BTW, according to the following job skillset categories, an IT guy loving CAD, like me, would be "Highly skilled". But it is too late for me to apply. :LOL:
1733900880424.webp

Lastly, see that violet-coloured forward fuel tank in your own shared diagram. That's the cruise-fuel tank.
Ok but it is not a boxy block but wrapped around other components. AFAIK that's bcoz big volume of liquid also has inertia to affect motion of the carrying vehicle, hence the solution is to compartmentalize & spread the tanks.
 
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Well, that's your choice obviously but you have opportunity to be more accurate & popular.
Whatever you guys have done so far is for fun & time pass only, right? Unless you guys are part of DoD or in contract with them.
I just asked for a labeled diagram. I'm sure while making the CAD you guys went through cutaway diagrams on Google, then what's the problem in abelling your own work?🤔:confusedd:
Enthusiasts may refer to a more complete CAD.

Replying to your questions feel like solving a test paper...

It's not accurate if you make shit up! Let "popular" guys label inaccurate bullshit as per their own wish, or add stuff like serrated engine-nozzle on that AMCA.
We've done fanarts like Tejas with Surya Kiran livery, but for serious models we did not deviate. That's why Kuntal is now getting official contracts from HAL why you more popular guys are not.



Anyways, difference in Tejas versions are similar to F-18, bigger jet, new intakes & engine, larger wings etc.main-qimg-83877a8f7b235c0aa994ce2e7e17598e-pjlq.webp

f16compare-colin_throm_awst-promo.webpComparing for AMCA, this is how much F-16 has changed in 40years by blockwise development.

It's not about how much adavanced they are vis-a-vis each other, but how radical the design changes are. What's so difficult to understand here?
 
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> F/A-18E/F is not a variant of F/A-18A/B/C/D rather it's a complete different plane that was designed based on the clues form Hornet

> The reason it's was named F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and not something like "F-19 Wasp" was because DoD knew it would be tough to get money from civilian policymakers for a completely new fighter program so they presented it as "just a simple upgrade"

>
F-16 block upgrades are more like plug-n-play systems that can be used on any variants with minimal deep modifications. The only serious airframe modification in the whole F-16 family is perhaps those Israeli ones with their "spine"

> He called Tejas Mk-2 radical because it's a complete different plane in comparison to its Mk-1 or Mk-1A variant. It's not an incremental upgrade...it's more like the Super Hornet we discussed earlier.

> AMCA variants (Mk-1, Mk-2) won't be as radical of a change as we're seeing in Tejas (Mk-1, Mk-2). It'll be incremental like may be new radars, engines, CATOBAR capability, auxiliary IWB....

I hope it makes some sense
 
> F/A-18E/F is not a variant of F/A-18A/B/C/D rather it's a complete different plane that was designed based on the clues form Hornet

> The reason it's was named F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and not something like "F-19 Wasp" was because DoD knew it would be tough to get money from civilian policymakers for a completely new fighter program so they presented it as "just a simple upgrade"

>
F-16 block upgrades are more like plug-n-play systems that can be used on any variants with minimal deep modifications. The only serious airframe modification in the whole F-16 family is perhaps those Israeli ones with their "spine"

> He called Tejas Mk-2 radical because it's a complete different plane in comparison to its Mk-1 or Mk-1A variant. It's not an incremental upgrade...it's more like the Super Hornet we discussed earlier.

> AMCA variants (Mk-1, Mk-2) won't be as radical of a change as we're seeing in Tejas (Mk-1, Mk-2). It'll be incremental like may be new radars, engines, CATOBAR capability, auxiliary IWB....

I hope it makes some sense
You are right.
SH18 was studied on the FA18 drawings and frame configuration. But the result was a little bit surprising, and not as efficient as the original frame. There was difficult (and never really solved) problem with wings for exemple.
Same resultas with Gripen E versus legacy Gripen : an increased frame by 20 or 25% is in fact a complete new design aerodynamically speaking.

We heard that Rafale F5 will be very different than F3 or F4 one.... We don't know the real difference, but if it is a bigger frame, the result may not be as potent as the original one...

F16 frame, from A to V model, remains globally the same. It helps a lot !

So Tejas Mk2 is to be seen as a totaly new bird.
 
I know increasing production is not as simple as Dassault building another assembly line. But all the sub-components like that Thales EO systems and all that have to be increased production. Not only that there is also sub-components of sub-components themselves as I assume all those optics are not made by Thales themselves but some optics company.
 
I know increasing production is not as simple as Dassault building another assembly line. But all the sub-components like that Thales EO systems and all that have to be increased production. Not only that there is also sub-components of sub-components themselves as I assume all those optics are not made by Thales themselves but some optics company.
They have a strike every Tuesday in France. We need licensed production here. Dassault is swamped with orders already because we wasted 3 years dilly dallying.
 
I know increasing production is not as simple as Dassault building another assembly line. But all the sub-components like that Thales EO systems and all that have to be increased production. Not only that there is also sub-components of sub-components themselves as I assume all those optics are not made by Thales themselves but some optics company.
It was a joke my Guy, we've already discussed this Rafale saga in great details
Definitely the production rate is low but isn't that a cause-n-effect loop type thing
I'd assume Safran is also suffering from same problem
...including the exact subcomponent part you're highlighting
We need licensed production here.
We place an order worth $40bn in 2016 for 200 Rafale including naval variants. Most of the airframe is made in India (not a big deal as Tata has already proven this with AH-64s) and components like guns and radars would come directly from various French OEMs, bypassing the production issue at Dassault. We'd get ToT for engines and those would be manufactured in-house. The know-how would help us in Kaveri and subsequently speed up the process of Tejas Mk-2 and AMCA.

Isn't it simple? Isn't it making sense?
Well that's why we'd not do that. Because that's something Betas do.

We'd rather go from step a to n for 36 of them.
Screenshot_2024-12-11-16-06-40-29_99c04817c0de5652397fc8b56c3b3817.webp
Then again after some years from a to n for 26 of these. Followed again by a to n for 114 more. All these aside from the continuous "talks" for engine.
Because we're Sigma [insert laser eyes] and this is what Sigmas do
 

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