AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[redpanda]

One of other major reason for delay is our strategic partner has blocked our access to latest machining tools too …

Yep why would they? If we get those tools we will become self reliant and they lose a buyer. Can you tell me what we have? And what we don't have for now? Irrc we don't have 50k ton forging press.

 

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1928013604046905629


View attachment 37729

Any prototype takes 3.5-4 years to manufacture and fly.

If in 2025 the work orders by ADA are released and tenders closed by FY 2025 (early 2026), then manufacturing and delivery of fuselage, components, etc in 12-16 months by all companies (2027 to early 2028), integration (2027 to 2028) and rollout by end of 2028 so first flight latest by end of 2029 is pretty reasonable as a worst case scenario.

Bear in mind that private sector can easily shave 1-2 years from the timeline as seen with the K9 artillery project.

Factor in 3-4 years of developmental trials and testing so IOC variant will certify in 2032 with LSP initiated by 2032-2033 so AMCA MK1 would be delivered to IAF in 2034 with service entry by 2034-2035.

Option 1 : Import F 35

Lets say India negotiates (begs) US to allow purchase of 36 F 35 aircraft throughout 2025-26. Finally US agrees and in 2026-27 a deal is signed for ~$8 bn.

The deal will include US weapons like AIM 120 C7, JDAM, etc and WILL be subject to US rules and regulations regarding intended usage. Also, India will have ZERO access to IP and will need to reply on US contractors to service these aircraft.

The first aircraft will be delivered 4-6 years after the signing of the deal (2030-2031). Then the rest over the next two years (2032-2033).

Option 2 : Persist on AMCA

By comparison, AMCA rollout is scheduled for 2026, which is reasonable given titanium bulkhead cutting and other small scale part manufacturing started in 2022.

First flight, depending on how many subsystems are installed in the AMCA will be 2027-2028. Then add another 3 years of tests (weapon-radar integration, certification, flight envelope tests, manuals, troubleshooting, compatibility) and by 2030-31 you have a somewhat ready IOC capable fighter.

Another 2 years 2032-2033 you have a FOC capable AMCA. If we sign GE F414 engine deal in 2025 (hopefully) and it takes 2 years to build the facility while we import some GE F414 engines as part of the deal, then by 2027 facility is ready. By 2028 domestic assembly of GE F414 commences and by 2031-32 everything is in place for AMCA to be mass produced and inducted.

Conclusion :

In both cases, India won't receive a 5th generation fighter before 2031-32 at the earliest. Bear in mind that it will take another 2-3 years to have at least 2-3 operationally ready squadrons of the F 35/AMCA so ~2034.

India needs to produce more SU 30 MKI, mass produce Tejas MK2, finish the 180 Tejas MK1A and missile-radar max until the mid 2030s.

Timeline per my estimates :

• Early 2025 - Full scale mockup (EMD)
• Late 2026 -Early 27 - Rollout
• Late 2027 -Early 2028 - First Flight
• Late 2031-Early 2032 - IOC Achieved
• Late 2032-Early 2033 - Limited Series Production/ Induction
• 2033 - First Squadron
• 2034 - Second Squadron
• 2035 - FOC Achieved
• 2038 - AMCA Mk.1 production completed at 100+ aircraft (20/yr)
• 2038 - AMCA Mk.2 IOC (?)

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Should not be a surprise to anyway …
who killed our BARC scientists and even father of our nuke program

We're in new era where even the CEOs are expendable. Many passouts from IIT+IIM type institutions.
Work is documented, hard &/or soft copies. redundancies, deputies in place. Nobody or nothing can become SPOF (Single Point of failure).
We all should sincerely stop this concept of father, mother, uncle, aunty, chacha, mama, mausa, etc in civil services.

 

[MarDePopins]

To all F35 and Su57 stans , I need to understand what is your understanding about future wars (with Pakistan only ) will look like ?
Do you think that Pakistan will use J35 and to counter that we will use Su57/F35 and the one who will put a first lock will score the kill .

All this 5th Gen buying is putting a hole in our already deficit funds . We need to build our own 5th Gen and in meanwhile focus on BETTER RADARS WHICH CAN DETECT 5TH GEN .
The moment you will get breakthrough there all 5th Gen tech will go for a toss ..

Wow with just radars all 5th gen tech will go for a toss!! Really??

Then all countries like USA, France, Turkey, SoKo, Xina etc are fool of highest order for developing their own respective stealth 5th nd 6th gen vectors?? Heck why are we even developing AMCA if the much vouched stealth tech will be defeated by just mere Radars..

See detecting is one thing but one needs to balance between offensive nd defensice tech.. Stealth fighters are force multipliers..enabling joint operations with 4th gen by SEAD nd also providing situational awareness to legacy platforms..neglecting them will seriously risks ceding air dominance to adversaries already fielding such aircrafts (xina holding in huge nos)

Over focusing on just radars at the expense of fighters leaves a gaping hole in offensive nd defensive capabilities..
Radars nd associated ADS are static or semi mobile nd are vulnerable to long-range precision strikes by the very stealth platforms..which can degrade AD networks even before they become effective..

The whole idea of Stealth fighters became eminent to degrade the threat of long range multilayered ADS where 4th gen fighters are sitting ducks.. sure 5th gen will also be detected but the difference between the range of detection btwn a fully loaded 4th gen fighters with VLO stealth fighters will be huge nd will ultimately make the distinction between achieving mission objectives or failing with high attrition rate.. thus one can't scorn the value of stealth fighters in lieu of some Radars or ADS.

Here's a better representation of 4th gen nd 5th gen nd it's impact on tactics nd doctrines..


Now coming to the India vs Pak scenario PAF with J35..it will give them the opportunity to penetrate nd target S400 nd other ADS envelope from a safe distance.. once S400 air cover is gone PAF can act more manfully mounting offensive targeting IAF 4th gen fighters CAPs causing high attrition rate.. remember it was S400 which made PAF go into hiding this time for whole hours of fighting after 7th may as they couldn't venture anywhere near the border to respond to indian airstrikes..so IAF will need it's own deterrence in form of stealth fighters ( F35/Su57) to keep PAF J35 at bay..

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Wow with just radars all 5th gen tech will go for a toss!! Really??

Then all countries like USA, France, Turkey, SoKo, Xina etc are fool of highest order for developing their own respective stealth 5th nd 6th gen vectors?? Heck why are we even developing AMCA if the much vouched stealth tech will be defeated by just mere Radars..

See detecting is one thing but one needs to balance between offensive nd defensice tech.. Stealth fighters are force multipliers..enabling joint operations with 4th gen by SEAD nd also providing situational awareness to legacy platforms..neglecting them will seriously risks ceding air dominance to adversaries already fielding such aircrafts (xina holding in huge nos)

Over focusing on just radars at the expense of fighters leaves a gaping hole in offensive nd defensive capabilities..
Radars nd associated ADS are static or semi mobile nd are vulnerable to long-range precision strikes by the very stealth platforms..which can degrade AD networks even before they become effective..

The whole idea of Stealth fighters became eminent to degrade the threat of long range multilayered ADS where 4th gen fighters are sitting ducks.. sure 5th gen will also be detected but the difference between the range of detection btwn a fully loaded 4th gen fighters with VLO stealth fighters will be huge nd will ultimately make the distinction between achieving mission objectives or failing with high attrition rate.. thus one can't scorn the value of stealth fighters in lieu of some Radars or ADS.

Here's a better representation of 4th gen nd 5th gen nd it's impact on tactics nd doctrines..
View attachment 37746

Now coming to the India vs Pak scenario PAF with J35..it will give them the opportunity to penetrate nd target S400 nd other ADS envelope from a safe distance.. once S400 air cover is gone PAF can act more manfully mounting offensive targeting IAF 4th gen fighters CAPs causing high attrition rate.. remember it was S400 which made PAF go into hiding this time for whole hours of fighting after 7th may as they couldn't venture anywhere near the border to respond to indian airstrikes..so IAF will need it's own deterrence in form of stealth fighters ( F35/Su57) to keep PAF J35 at bay..

This is missing the KEY point - stealth detecting radars will turn 5th gen stealth fighters into 4th gen fighters in operational viability and in THAT case, the 4th generation comes out on top, because its helluva lot more manueverable..
Radar is not a ' eye of sauron' that you just make MOAR powerful to see stealth, thats not what 'stealth detecting radar' is, in theory. Stealth is not ' all spectrum stealth', they are infact very very visible in ELF band radar, even more so than 4th gen, because their radar reflector shaping/absorbing does jack squat to ELF frequencies and their overall bigger volume makes them a bigger ' dot' to these radars than a 4th gen. However, problem is, ELF band radars are low resolution and low specificity radars, thus they are mostly used for weather channel radars, where you have an acceptable error range of freaking kilometers to show whatever you are showing. in theory,' stealth detecting radars' would be these ELF radars turned into high specificity and high resolution radars, so they can direct somehting the size of a bus and not just something the size of city blocks.


As for all the OP-SEC ' value' of stealth - its ALL still on paper. Stealth jets haven't claimed ANY significant SEAD missions in their service life, anywhere. So their ' awesome ability' to be ' force multipliers' and provide direct engagement over enemy airspace, where enemy has even a decent modicum of ADS, is unproven in reality.
That is the bottomline so far.

Dont get me wrong, stealth is ' awesome' on paper, but as of now, it still mostly remains on paper.

 

[MarDePopins]

With AMCA more than a decade away … I suppose we are going into direction of foreign buy F35 or Su57

Yes that's the only foreseeable option IAF have .. if one can read btwn the line then with AMCA program going to private industry it's pretty safe to assume that MRFA hoopla is now shelved for the love of God..
why?? Because the whole point of MRFA program was to establish a private industry player with foreign OEM to end the monopoly of HAL.. So this whole process will be shifted to AMCA.

Now if anyone is crying over lack of fund for IAF then he need to realise we have total capex of 21 billion dollars for this year in which IAF has major share of around 6 billion dollars.. nd again defense budget on capex part will get a boost of around 9 billion dollars in winter session of parliament in wake of operation sindoor.. by 2030 IAF capex alone will be close to 10 billion dollars per year nd is increasing at 9-13% per year.. so funds are not the problem but it's the tepid decision making paralysis which is plaguing IAF dwindling squadron strengths..

nd to add to the fact that Govt nd IAF had earmarked around 15-20 billion dollars for whole MRFA program..

Now with MRFA losing it's relevance IAF will certainly go for -

1.40 additional Rafale: ~8 billions Dollars
2. 36 F35/Su57: ~ 7 billion dollars

Nd rest it will focus on mk1A, mk2 nd AMCA afterwards 2035..
These are the most appropriate steps to build capacity nd deterrence while also surmounting dwindling squadron strengths.

 

[MarDePopins]

This is missing the KEY point - stealth detecting radars will turn 5th gen stealth fighters into 4th gen fighters in operational viability and in THAT case, the 4th generation comes out on top, because its helluva lot more manueverable..
Radar is not a ' eye of sauron' that you just make MOAR powerful to see stealth, thats not what 'stealth detecting radar' is, in theory. Stealth is not ' all spectrum stealth', they are infact very very visible in ELF band radar, even more so than 4th gen, because their radar reflector shaping/absorbing does jack squat to ELF frequencies and their overall bigger volume makes them a bigger ' dot' to these radars than a 4th gen. However, problem is, ELF band radars are low resolution and low specificity radars, thus they are mostly used for weather channel radars, where you have an acceptable error range of freaking kilometers to show whatever you are showing. in theory,' stealth detecting radars' would be these ELF radars turned into high specificity and high resolution radars, so they can direct somehting the size of a bus and not just something the size of city blocks.


As for all the OP-SEC ' value' of stealth - its ALL still on paper. Stealth jets haven't claimed ANY significant SEAD missions in their service life, anywhere. So their ' awesome ability' to be ' force multipliers' and provide direct engagement over enemy airspace, where enemy has even a decent modicum of ADS, is unproven in reality.
That is the bottomline so far.

Dont get me wrong, stealth is ' awesome' on paper, but as of now, it still mostly remains on paper.

Lol really stealth hasn't claimed any significant SEAD mission ??

seems like u didn't follow ISREALI operation Day or repentance?

The F-35 stealth fighter's victory against Iran's air defenses highlights its ability to wage a higher level of war

The F-35 has often been used to strike terror or militant targets. The strikes against Iran give a better picture of what it can do.

www.businessinsider.com

Israeli F-35i Adir Obliterated Iranian Air Defenses from 100 Miles Away - Warrior Maven

Israel’s F-35i Adir was able to destroy Iranian air defenses from distances as far as 100 miles away

warriormaven.com

Israeli F-35s entered Iran's airspace for first time, hit targets near Tehran

Israeli F-35 fighters entered Iran's airspace for the first time in raids earlier on Saturday, an informed Israeli source told Iran International, adding that they flew over Tehran and bombed targets in the area.

www.iranintl.com

Israel used US-made F-35 stealth fighters in its largest-ever strike on Iran: report

Israel deployed US-made F-35 stealth fighters among its 100 jets, spy planes and refueling aircraft to conduct its largest-ever strike on Iran, which left Tehran vulnerable should war break out, a …

nypost.com

Israel's F-35 Adir Has Put Iran and Its Proxies on the Back Foot

Israel’s fleet of F-35I fighters continues to prove that the mighty fifth-generation platform is nearly unstoppable. Since Hamas launched its October 7, 2023, massacre against the Jewish state, the Israeli Air Force has been able to decimate the Gaza-based terror group in addition to crippling...

nationalinterest.org

Here update urself.

Mind u iran has pretty DECENT ADS with multiple homegrown solutions like their own S300 equivalent known as Bavar 373

4. IRAN’S AIR DEFENCE SYSTEM - Issuu

Over the past two decades Iran has managed to create a fairly sophisticated Integrated Air Defence System (IADS) consisting of a network of mobile and fixed radar stations, command and control and communications (C3) nodes, and overlapping layers of anti-aircraft guns and surfaceto-air missile...

issuu.com

Nd yeah sure stealth is only awesome on paper .. we believe u.. as i said multiple countries are just nitwiting themself by developing their own 5th gen fighters while some lad mentions that stealth is only good in paper.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Lol really stealth hasn't claimed any significant SEAD mission ??

seems like u didn't follow ISREALI operation Day or repentance?

Israeli F-35i Adir Obliterated Iranian Air Defenses from 100 Miles Away - Warrior Maven

Israel’s F-35i Adir was able to destroy Iranian air defenses from distances as far as 100 miles away

warriormaven.com

Israeli F-35s entered Iran's airspace for first time, hit targets near Tehran

Israeli F-35 fighters entered Iran's airspace for the first time in raids earlier on Saturday, an informed Israeli source told Iran International, adding that they flew over Tehran and bombed targets in the area.

www.iranintl.com

Israel used US-made F-35 stealth fighters in its largest-ever strike on Iran: report

Israel deployed US-made F-35 stealth fighters among its 100 jets, spy planes and refueling aircraft to conduct its largest-ever strike on Iran, which left Tehran vulnerable should war break out, a …

nypost.com

Israel's F-35 Adir Has Put Iran and Its Proxies on the Back Foot

Israel’s fleet of F-35I fighters continues to prove that the mighty fifth-generation platform is nearly unstoppable. Since Hamas launched its October 7, 2023, massacre against the Jewish state, the Israeli Air Force has been able to decimate the Gaza-based terror group in addition to crippling...

nationalinterest.org

Here update urself.

Mind u iran has pretty DECENT ADS with multiple homegrown solutions like their own S300 equivalent known as Bavar 373

4. IRAN’S AIR DEFENCE SYSTEM - Issuu

Over the past two decades Iran has managed to create a fairly sophisticated Integrated Air Defence System (IADS) consisting of a network of mobile and fixed radar stations, command and control and communications (C3) nodes, and overlapping layers of anti-aircraft guns and surfaceto-air missile...

issuu.com

Nd yeah sure stealth is only awesome on paper .. we believe u.. as i said multiple countries are just nitwiting themselves by developing their own 5th gen fighters..

As i said, an air defence with any modicum of decency. Iran doesnt have decent ADS, their ADS capability is far inferior to that of Pakistan on paper.
S300 is not decent, its substandard as its worse than the patriot system and patriot system is the minimum baseline for proven ADS these days - S400 and akaash are faar better as shown.

Furthermore, your examples prove MY point, not yours - IAF(israeli) did NOT perform the previously shown mission profile of stealth and directly engage enemy air target OVER enemy ADS. it performed the role of SEAD from a distance to enemy ADS that is ' allegedly' one of the ' mass deployed squadron disadvantage of 4th gen against multi-layered ADS'.

Ie, if your entire sum total combat performance to show for, is to sit 100s of kms away from enemy ADS and lob missiles at it, then that is not much to speak of for showing the world of your 'alleged paradigm changing' 5th gen combat role.

Developing a sci-fi project you think will work and then putting them into combat and showing they work are two entirely different things and weapons history is NOT free from development of a white elephant that goes nowhere in actual combat by SEVERAL nations, costing a fortune : the best example of this, is battleships of post dreadnaught era : caused a massive arms race, did actual little to no combat in its own ' age of glory' and then became sitting ducks to the primitive 1st gen aircraft carriers of ww2.

Not saying stealth is a lemon, but it MAY VERY WELL TURN OUT TO BE- because in reality, stealth 5th gen have never done anything remotely close to their stated mission profile against a serious enemy and 4th gen remains far more PROVEN tech than 5th gen. That, is an incontrovertible fact.
Yes, we are allowed to covet stealth, see its benefits and persue it, but we are also allowed to retain our skepticism of a weapon that is not proven in combat in history of mankind- so far.

 

[Zoid Raptor]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX5eHty_NW8

 

[MarDePopins]

As i said, an air defence with any modicum of decency. Iran doesnt have decent ADS, their ADS capability is far inferior to that of Pakistan on paper.
S300 is not decent, its substandard as its worse than the patriot system and patriot system is the minimum baseline for proven ADS these days - S400 and akaash are faar better as shown.

Furthermore, your examples prove MY point, not yours - IAF(israeli) did NOT perform the previously shown mission profile of stealth and directly engage enemy air target OVER enemy ADS. it performed the role of SEAD from a distance to enemy ADS that is ' allegedly' one of the ' mass deployed squadron disadvantage of 4th gen against multi-layered ADS'.

Ie, if your entire sum total combat performance to show for, is to sit 100s of kms away from enemy ADS and lob missiles at it, then that is not much to speak of for showing the world of your 'alleged paradigm changing' 5th gen combat role.

Developing a sci-fi project you think will work and then putting them into combat and showing they work are two entirely different things and weapons history is NOT free from development of a white elephant that goes nowhere in actual combat by SEVERAL nations, costing a fortune : the best example of this, is battleships of post dreadnaught era : caused a massive arms race, did actual little to no combat in its own ' age of glory' and then became sitting ducks to the primitive 1st gen aircraft carriers of ww2.

Not saying stealth is a lemon, but it MAY VERY WELL TURN OUT TO BE- because in reality, stealth 5th gen have never done anything remotely close to their stated mission profile against a serious enemy and 4th gen remains far more PROVEN tech than 5th gen. That, is an incontrovertible fact.
Yes, we are allowed to covet stealth, see its benefits and persue it, but we are also allowed to retain our skepticism of a weapon that is not proven in combat in history of mankind- so far.

Delusions hv no cure mate.. u can keep running around the circle but it won't help ur cause.. all u can do is resort to rhetorics while I had provided u with multiple sources to substantiate my claim..

while ur response is plain rhetorics nd JUST "believe me Bro".. " i know iran doesn't has any decent ADS because i had myself done numerous SEAD on them." .. "yeah believe me Bro stealth is all farce because it's hasn't proven itself"..yeah so any niche disruptive tech is just futile because it's hasn't yet PROVEN itself.. SO all F22s nd J20s are useless nd also the incoming 6th gen will also be useless.. multiple countries are just fooling themselves by pouring billions of dollars to earn stealth capabilities while it's just all farce.. why because i says so.. so believe me.

Lol this is the coping mechanisms of highest order.. u know what u are only trying to convince urself that ur POV is the truth of yale..but reality doens't work on someone's whims nd wishes

IAF KNOWS THE VALUE OF STEALTH FIGHTERS.. WORLD KNOWS THE VALUE OF STEALTH FIGHTERS.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Delusions hv no cure mate.. u can keep running around the circle but it won't help ur cause.. all u can do is resort to rhetorics while I had provided u with multiple sources to substantiate my claim..

while ur response is plain rhetorics nd JUST "believe me Bro".. " i know iran doesn't has any decent ADS because i had myself done numerous SEAD on them." .. "yeah believe me Bro stealth is all farce because it's hasn't proven itself"..yeah so any niche disruptive tech is just futile because it's hasn't yet PROVEN itself.. SO all F22s nd J20s are useless nd also the incoming 6th gen will also be useless.. multiple countries are just fooling themselves by pouring billions of dollars to earn stealth capabilities while it's just all farce.. why because i says so.. so believe me.

Lol this is the coping mechanisms of highest order.. u know what u are only trying to convince urself that ur POV is the truth of yale..but reality doens't work on someone's whims nd wishes

IAF KNOWS THE VALUE OF STEALTH FIGHTERS.. WORLD KNOWS THE VALUE OF STEALTH FIGHTERS.

explain what is deluded then and kindly show me a stealth mission that has lived up to the ' new doctrine' of stealth attack as shown in your diagram.
I await citation and if not, an apology.
Iran doesnt have good ADS is not believe me bro, its based off of what their known ADS capabilities are.
World knew the value of Battleships apparently too for decades- we saw how that panned out didnt we ??

 

[MarDePopins]

As i said, an air defence with any modicum of decency. Iran doesnt have decent ADS, their ADS capability is far inferior to that of Pakistan on paper.
S300 is not decent, its substandard as its worse than the patriot system and patriot system is the minimum baseline for proven ADS these days - S400 and akaash are faar better as shown.

Furthermore, your examples prove MY point, not yours - IAF(israeli) did NOT perform the previously shown mission profile of stealth and directly engage enemy air target OVER enemy ADS. it performed the role of SEAD from a distance to enemy ADS that is ' allegedly' one of the ' mass deployed squadron disadvantage of 4th gen against multi-layered ADS'.

Ie, if your entire sum total combat performance to show for, is to sit 100s of kms away from enemy ADS and lob missiles at it, then that is not much to speak of for showing the world of your 'alleged paradigm changing' 5th gen combat role.

Developing a sci-fi project you think will work and then putting them into combat and showing they work are two entirely different things and weapons history is NOT free from development of a white elephant that goes nowhere in actual combat by SEVERAL nations, costing a fortune : the best example of this, is battleships of post dreadnaught era : caused a massive arms race, did actual little to no combat in its own ' age of glory' and then became sitting ducks to the primitive 1st gen aircraft carriers of ww2.

Not saying stealth is a lemon, but it MAY VERY WELL TURN OUT TO BE- because in reality, stealth 5th gen have never done anything remotely close to their stated mission profile against a serious enemy and 4th gen remains far more PROVEN tech than 5th gen. That, is an incontrovertible fact.
Yes, we are allowed to covet stealth, see its benefits and persue it, but we are also allowed to retain our skepticism of a weapon that is not proven in combat in history of mankind- so far.

ND I MISSED ur claims on comparing IRAN nd PAKISTAN ADS capabilities is just plain laughable..

Mate IRAN HAS INDIGENOUS SAM not only S300
Let me break it down for u-
Bavar-373 (300+ km), Mehran (320 km), Sayyad-3F (100–150 km), 15th Khordad (120 km), Ra’ad (50–105 km), Sayyad-2 (75–100 km), 358 Loitering SAM (100 km), 359 Loitering SAM (150 km), S300

NOW tell me the Paxtani equivalent of Iran's long range ADS as u had claimed that iran has far inferior ADS capabilities than paxtan in paper..

U are not taking facts just rhetorics

 

[GaudaNaresh]

ND I MISSED ur claims on comparing IRAN nd PAKISTAN ADS capabilities is just laughable..

Mate IRAN HAS INDIGENOUS SAM not only S300
Let me break it down for u-
Bavar-373 (300+ km), Mehran (320 km), Sayyad-3F (100–150 km), 15th Khordad (120 km), Ra’ad (50–105 km), Sayyad-2 (75–100 km), 358 Loitering SAM (100 km), 359 Loitering SAM (150 km), S300

NOW tell me the Paxtani equivalent of Iran's long range ADS as u had claimed that iran has far inferior ADS capabilities than paxtan in paper..

U are not taking facts just rhetorics

Indegenous SAM doesnt mean they are good SAM. North Korea has indegenous missiles, doesnt mean they are good.
Pakis have HQ-9. That is a million times better than anything that Iran has on paper.

As i said, even if your claims are true and Iran has toweing God-level ADS, so what ? show me a mission where 5th gen has dealt with this towering enemy ADS in the stated mission profile of 5th gen in the diagram YOU provided.
Show me where your stealth is a proven tech by parameters YOU provided., which is the diagram below. So show me your facts instead of your rhetoric.

 

[MarDePopins]

explain what is deluded then and kindly show me a stealth mission that has lived up to the ' new doctrine' of stealth attack as shown in your diagram.
I await citation and if not, an apology.
Iran doesnt have good ADS is not believe me bro, its based off of what their known ADS capabilities are.
World knew the value of Battleships apparently too for decades- we saw how that panned out didnt we ??

Ur claim of iran having far inferior ADS capabilities as compared to paxtan has reflected the delusions of grandeur level.

U can provide the source of ur claims.. that paxtan has superior ADS capabilities when compared to paxtan.

 

[MarDePopins]

Indegenous SAM doesnt mean they are good SAM. North Korea has indegenous missiles, doesnt mean they are good.
Pakis have HQ-9. That is a million times better than anything that Iran has on paper.

As i said, even if your claims are true and Iran has toweing God-level ADS, so what ? show me a mission where 5th gen has dealt with this towering enemy ADS in the stated mission profile of 5th gen in the diagram YOU provided.
Show me where your stealth is a proven tech by parameters YOU provided.
So show me your facts instead of your rhetoric.

Wow as i said delusions hv no cure.. keep on believing that.. lol at HQ9 being million times better..

We hv xina stoks strong here!!

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Ur claim of iran having far inferior ADS capabilities as compared to paxtan has reflected the delusions of grandeur level.

U can provide the source of ur claims.. that paxtan has superior ADS capabilities when compared to paxtan.

Your attempt to evade accountability wont work here.
This is my last comment to you on this matter - you think i am wrong and Iran has great ADS ? Ok. I am wrong, Iran has great ADS.
Now, show me evidence that your 5th gen fighter jet has ever fulfilled YOUR IDEA of a 5th generation mission profile, as demonstrated by YOUR own diagram, which is this :




As i said, enough rhetoric, show us evidence. You deemed to counter my post with evidence of Stealth missions living up to its combat role.
That is a LIE.
Your stealth jets have done the SEAD role of the 4th gen it allegedly came to replace by your own IAF accounts. Show us evidence stealth has EVER done a successful mission that is the 2nd diagram.

Else, i expect an apology.

 

[MarDePopins]

Indegenous SAM doesnt mean they are good SAM. North Korea has indegenous missiles, doesnt mean they are good.
Pakis have HQ-9. That is a million times better than anything that Iran has on paper.

As i said, even if your claims are true and Iran has toweing God-level ADS, so what ? show me a mission where 5th gen has dealt with this towering enemy ADS in the stated mission profile of 5th gen in the diagram YOU provided.
Show me where your stealth is a proven tech by parameters YOU provided., which is the diagram below. So show me your facts instead of your rhetoric.
View attachment 37782

I hv already provided the multiple links.. plz go through it.. u are seriously worked up because ur claims nd rhetorics hv been refuted multiple times.

Stealth is just good on paper- refuted

Paxtan has better ADS than Iran - refuted again.

While ur claims are just belive me bro.. oki sure we believe u.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

I hv already provided the multiple links.. plz go through it.. u are seriously worked up because ur claims nd rhetorics hv been refuted multiple times.

Stealth is just good on paper- refuted

Paxtan has better ADS than Iran - refuted again.

While ur claims are just belive me bro.. oki sure we believe u.

Nope. None of those links show 5th generation mission profile. They show SEAD/DEAD of 4++ generation profile. Lobbing missiles at ADS from 100s of kms away is 4th gen mission profile.
So where is your 5th generation mission profile in evidence ?? in WHICH mission has stealth evaded airborne and ground ADS to strike high value target INSIDE ADS envelope ?? Date and citation please.

You have not refuted that stealth is anything more than on paper for its STATED MISSION PROFILE.
else, show me evidence. citation or apology. Your choice, kid.

 

[MarDePopins]

Your attempt to evade accountability wont work here.
This is my last comment to you on this matter - you think i am wrong and Iran has great ADS ? Ok. I am wrong, Iran has great ADS.
Now, show me evidence that your 5th gen fighter jet has ever fulfilled YOUR IDEA of a 5th generation mission profile, as demonstrated by YOUR own diagram, which is this :

View attachment 37784


As i said, enough rhetoric, show us evidence. You deemed to counter my post with evidence of Stealth missions living up to its combat role.
That is a LIE.
Your stealth jets have done the SEAD role of the 4th gen it allegedly came to replace by your own IAF accounts. Show us evidence stealth has EVER done a successful mission that is the 2nd diagram.

Else, i expect an apology.

Lol u are hurt nd in pain .. i apologise for hurting u nd dragging u out of ur made up world.. u were happy believing stealth is just good in paper while multiple countries around the world are pouring billions of dollars to earn the same stealth tech..

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Lol u are hurt nd in pain .. i apologise for hurting u nd dragging u out of ur made up world.. u were happy believing stealth is just good in paper while multiple countries around the world are pouring billions of dollars to earn the same stealth tech..

The one in pain is you, since you are trying to desperately make it personal inistead of showing evidence or being man enough to admit you dont have any. Stealth is on paper only till you can show me ciation of stealth missions that have fulfilled the mission profile of stealth IN YOUR DIAGRAM.
What IAF did, is SEAD of 4++ gen. Thats not sufficient according to your own diagram to show stealth has done its job. So evidence dikhao, kiddo.

I am happy to consider the possibilty that the world is pouring billions over a lemon because world has already done that before with battleships- somethign you also dont have the balls to address.

Evidence or no dice.