AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (6 Viewers)

[Spitfire IX]

Issue is if they keep remaining in this "low risk mindset" they will eventually miss the bus. Some foreign company will just open their own branch here eventually and the government will give them contract. Meanwhile our guys will remain glorified supply chain vendor for them. Government will bail them out if they fumble up most likely.

Sticking to a HAL monopoly is responsible for the lack of assembly expertise in India's industry. GOI policy was simply wrong in my view.

 

[obiwankenobi]

Under no means should HAL be given any participation in AMCA.

They need to deliver 83 TejasMk1A, another 97 TejasMk1A/B, 120+ Tejas MK2. Probably more orders coming for Hawks or future trainer. And the CATS warrior thing. I assure you none of this will be on time. Giving them AMCA will be an exercise in putting more fresh eggs in a basket of rotting eggs.

I would make the following changes to the EOI:

1. Allow recruitment of foreign talent at CEO, CTO other positions.
2. Allow minority participation in consortium by a foreign OEM from a vetted country.
3. Remove this stupid 2000cr a year clause, or allow for participants to count the revenue of other group companies.
4. Make a clause that any participant with a large undelivered order book with delays is disqualified - hence removing HAL.
5. HAL can participate as a Tier 1 vendor or supplier if they have capacity.

We want to have at least 2-3 aerospace majors in the next 10-20 years, this is the only way.

If no private company comes forward, government should create a new Greenfield semi-PSU as an alternative to HAL. Bharat Aerospace or whatever you want to call it.

 

[shade2]

Under no means should HAL be given any participation in AMCA.

They need to deliver 83 TejasMk1A, another 97 TejasMk1A/B, 120+ Tejas MK2. Probably more orders coming for Hawks or future trainer. And the CATS warrior thing. I assure you none of this will be on time. Giving them AMCA will be an exercise in putting more fresh eggs in a basket of rotting eggs.

I would make the following changes to the EOI:

1. Allow recruitment of foreign talent at CEO, CTO other positions.
2. Allow minority participation in consortium by a foreign OEM from a vetted country.
3. Remove this stupid 2000cr a year clause, or allow for participants to count the revenue of other group companies.
4. Make a clause that any participant with a large undelivered order book with delays is disqualified - hence removing HAL.
5. HAL can participate as a Tier 1 vendor or supplier if they have capacity.

We want to have at least 2-3 aerospace majors in the next 10-20 years, this is the only way.

If no private company comes forward, government should create a new Greenfield semi-PSU as an alternative to HAL. Bharat Aerospace or whatever you want to call it.

Whatever they do no deshi conglomerate is touching the AMCA, it's just too risky.

Onlee HAL remains.

The original scheme to make this work was to have some MRFA winner tie up with dhandho to fabricate and assemble the fighter jets here but has not happened.

What govt is asking for is dhandhos setup a whole ass factory and assembly line with all the spending of money it entails for what is and unsupported and unproved project.

If they are serious, better sign a 72 Rafale deal with the Frogs and get TASL to setup a FAL for it, initial production of AMCA can be done by HAL and later TASL or any other dhandho can do the bulk production.

 

[Spitfire IX]

For info:

https://aviationweek.com/defense/ai...combat-aircraft-development-contract-year-end


If 5G procurement schedule slips badly, GCAP could be an option for mid-late 2030's delivery.

 

[Spitfire IX]

More info:

Europe’s FCAS fighter stalls as consortium battles intensify

Disputes among Dassault, Airbus, and Indra delay FCAS Phase 2, threatening Europe's next-gen stealth fighter. Explore the stakes for NATO and global defense.

bulgarianmilitary.com

If 5G procurement schedule slips badly, FCAS could be an option for early-mid 2040's delivery.

 

[randombully]

For info:

https://aviationweek.com/defense/ai...combat-aircraft-development-contract-year-end


If 5G procurement schedule slips badly, GCAP could be an option for mid-late 2030's delivery.

Next-gen GCAP warplane faces time pressure amid American F-47 plans

Japan joined GCAP to be able to co-own the technology on board the plane, something it would be less able to do with an equivalent U.S. jet.

www.defensenews.com

Trump reportedly discussed the F-47 with Japanese Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba last month.

“(Trump) said the United States has such great fighter jets and asked Ishiba if he would like to take a look at them,” wrote Japanese newspaper Asahi Shimbun, quoting unnamed sources.

Japan joined GCAP to be able to co-own the technology on board the plane, something it would be less able to do with an equivalent U.S. jet.

But there are growing reports Japan is unhappy with the time needed to develop the GCAP as neighbor China threatens its airspace with advanced fighters such as the planned sixth generation J-50.

Last month Reuters reported Japan was dubious GCAP would achieve its planned 2035 in-service date and was considering ordering more F-35s as a gap filler.

 

[Kattar]

Under no means should HAL be given any participation in AMCA.

They need to deliver 83 TejasMk1A, another 97 TejasMk1A/B, 120+ Tejas MK2. Probably more orders coming for Hawks or future trainer. And the CATS warrior thing. I assure you none of this will be on time. Giving them AMCA will be an exercise in putting more fresh eggs in a basket of rotting eggs.

I would make the following changes to the EOI:

1. Allow recruitment of foreign talent at CEO, CTO other positions.
2. Allow minority participation in consortium by a foreign OEM from a vetted country.
3. Remove this stupid 2000cr a year clause, or allow for participants to count the revenue of other group companies.
4. Make a clause that any participant with a large undelivered order book with delays is disqualified - hence removing HAL.
5. HAL can participate as a Tier 1 vendor or supplier if they have capacity.

We want to have at least 2-3 aerospace majors in the next 10-20 years, this is the only way.

If no private company comes forward, government should create a new Greenfield semi-PSU as an alternative to HAL. Bharat Aerospace or whatever you want to call it.

Private sector investment in expensive sectors like fighter jet manufacturing calls for visibility and minimum stability in production volumes and payments which a finicky customer like MOD will not understand

Go in depth on the Arjun Tank saga to understand how Tatas and others were royally shafted after they were promised Arjun production.

GOI is just a little short of threatening our big private players to pump in money on building AMCA line. They've already tried feeding different types of Choorans without success

L&T was supposed to establish a line for MK2, which is not happening. Alpha and other private players who took on major aero structures for MK1A are badly behind schedule and haven't even commenced deliveries!

In a saner world, GOI would have given HAL a lot more autonomy and eliminated many typical heavy weight burdens such as quotas in recruitment by recognizing it as a strategic entity. How can any company perform if they are required to make a caste-wise breakup of Technicians and Fitters to fill up shop floors?

But giving HAL more autonomy will not even be considered as this will not bring in extra earnings for MOD baboons, while a player from private sector can arrange for effortless growth of hidden wealth of baboon families

 

[Spitfire IX]

But there are growing reports Japan is unhappy with the time needed to develop the GCAP as neighbor China threatens its airspace with advanced fighters such as the planned sixth generation J-50.

Last month Reuters reported Japan was dubious GCAP would achieve its planned 2035 in-service date and was considering ordering more F-35s as a gap filler.

Hence Japan wants no more partners joining the programme if that risks compromising meeting the schedule.

 

[vicky]

Under no means should HAL be given any participation in AMCA.

They need to deliver 83 TejasMk1A, another 97 TejasMk1A/B, 120+ Tejas MK2. Probably more orders coming for Hawks or future trainer. And the CATS warrior thing. I assure you none of this will be on time. Giving them AMCA will be an exercise in putting more fresh eggs in a basket of rotting eggs.

I would make the following changes to the EOI:

1. Allow recruitment of foreign talent at CEO, CTO other positions.
2. Allow minority participation in consortium by a foreign OEM from a vetted country.
3. Remove this stupid 2000cr a year clause, or allow for participants to count the revenue of other group companies.
4. Make a clause that any participant with a large undelivered order book with delays is disqualified - hence removing HAL.
5. HAL can participate as a Tier 1 vendor or supplier if they have capacity.

We want to have at least 2-3 aerospace majors in the next 10-20 years, this is the only way.

If no private company comes forward, government should create a new Greenfield semi-PSU as an alternative to HAL. Bharat Aerospace or whatever you want to call it.

Under no means should HAL be given any participation in AMCA.

They need to deliver 83 TejasMk1A, another 97 TejasMk1A/B, 120+ Tejas MK2. Probably more orders coming for Hawks or future trainer. And the CATS warrior thing. I assure you none of this will be on time. Giving them AMCA will be an exercise in putting more fresh eggs in a basket of rotting eggs.

I would make the following changes to the EOI:

1. Allow recruitment of foreign talent at CEO, CTO other positions.
2. Allow minority participation in consortium by a foreign OEM from a vetted country.
3. Remove this stupid 2000cr a year clause, or allow for participants to count the revenue of other group companies.
4. Make a clause that any participant with a large undelivered order book with delays is disqualified - hence removing HAL.
5. HAL can participate as a Tier 1 vendor or supplier if they have capacity.

We want to have at least 2-3 aerospace majors in the next 10-20 years, this is the only way.

If no private company comes forward, government should create a new Greenfield semi-PSU as an alternative to HAL. Bharat Aerospace or whatever you want to call it.

Look, I get the frustration with HAL—delays on Tejas Mk1A, Mk2, and other projects are real, and it’s tempting to just sideline them for AMCA. But completely cutting HAL out? That’s a bad call, and here’s why:

1. They’ve built Tejas, worked on Su-30s, and handled Hawks. That’s serious experience with aircraft design and production, especially for something as tricky as a fifth-gen stealth fighter like AMCA. Kicking them out means tossing away decades of know-how.

2. HAL’s got a lot on its plate—83 Mk1As, 97 more, 120+ Mk2s, maybe Hawks and CATS Warrior. But they’re scaling up with new plants and outsourcing parts. AMCA’s a long-term project; it won’t clog their lines right away.

3. National Security Risk-HAL’s a PSU, so it’s tied to India’s goals, not profit margins. A private company or some new “Bharat Aerospace” might chase bucks or, worse, leak sensitive tech if foreign players get involved. HAL keeps things in-house.

4. Your EOI Ideas Don’t Quite Work:
- Foreign CEOs or CTOs? Sounds cool, but it’s a security nightmare for a project like AMCA.
- Letting foreign OEMs take a stake? That’s asking for India’s IP to end up overseas. They can consult, like GE does for Tejas engines, without owning a piece.
- Dropping the ₹2000 Cr revenue rule? That’s there to make sure whoever takes this on can bankroll it. HAL can; smaller players might not.
- Banning companies with delayed orders? Delays happen everywhere—look at Boeing’s 737 MAX mess. HAL’s issues aren’t all their fault (IAF changes, supply chain hiccups).
- Making HAL just a supplier? That’s like benching your star player. They’ve got design skills, not just assembly lines.

5. Starting a “Bharat Aerospace” from scratch? That’s years of setup, hiring, and cash burn. HAL’s already got factories, test ranges, and people ready to go.

Instead of ditching HAL, bring them in as a partner with private firms. They’ve got the experience, and splitting the load could actually speed things up. Excluding them entirely? That’s just shooting ourselves in the foot.