AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Absolutely.
We can definitely integrated multiple features based on the observation we've from Israel-Arab and Russia-Ukraine conflict like controlling UAVs, having stealth ARMs, sub-100lbs munitions that increase magazine depth while reducing collateral damage, stealth Cruise Missile that can be carried on external store without increasing the RCS significantly, variant of SAAW with PRH seeker and what not.

So let's discuss those instead of getting personal again & again, trying to dictate & micro-manage others. Ignore whom/what you dislike & move on bcoz we all are dispensable, from fresher to CEO.

But remember this message, that had irked you so much...
...so yeah, none of that is going to happen

Many members express their views, opinions, sometimes dissatisfaction or disagreement on various projects/products. When people can't find like-minded people F2F (face to Face) then they go online.

T-64/72/80/90 from 1965, Leopard 2 from 1980, Abrams from 1985 and Ariete from 1994 are using smoothbore main guns. Tell me what did we learn from all these while designing Arjun that entered service in 2004?

Ask this question to GoI/MoD/DoD, not general public here. I want the top defence journalists to ask questions like this so that all citizens would become aware what country needs.

Yes, can't agree more. But if that CAD is not from some official source like an University, defence company, laboratory or military then those 1000 words are just gibberish
Try to find out how many of those talented designer at artstation have ever filed a patent for their ideas. Even they themselves know how much merit their ideas hold in the real-world.

Now you have problem with CAD artists also??
What did i tell you earlier:

you don't understand how a casual chat forum works - filling each other's blanks. You can't tolerate others' speculations.

Time pass is not about patents & patents is not about time pass.
However, sometimes based on their 2D/3D work they get job opportunities also in animation industry or some other contracts. There are some online work portals where small works are posted for websites, apps, even school/college projects, artists can bid their cost, it is like online market.
People who file patents need to keep their research confidential to public till they present only to validation institution. But both, Patents & Art can be registered to be Copyrighted. Some material can be used/shared/propagated as long as Owner is credited &/or false IP (Intellectual Property) is not claimed.
BTW Research person filing patent may take help of 2D/3D artists.
So nobody can't shut down those websites or forums like this. Nobody can control anybody's leisure actitivity, time pass, time waste. So why waste time in trying to control other's time waste?
You always question others so I had asked you before also & again asking now:

You have problem with CAD
You have problem with labeled diagrams
You have problem with photos.
You have problem with TV documentaries.
You don't care if someone is technically qualified also.
You don't care if someone requests you politely also.
You wan't to dictate & micro-manage people like puppet.
What do you expect other members to do? Join a degree program for military study at CAPS (Center for Air Power Studies), IDSA (Institute for Defence Studies & Analysis), CENJOWS (CENter for JOint Warfare Studies), Manohar Parrikar Institute for Defence Studies and Analysis, etc.

But ultimately what your replies reflect..

Doesn't matter whether you've done B. Tech or M. Tech or done that today or two decades earlier

you simply don't care about others in your own words.

So please ignore whom you dislike & move on.

Please don't ditch Geeta Press Ramayan for Adipurush just because it has more graphics.

CAUTION: Please don't mix religion here. I read Gita, Ved, Puran, watch dharmic serials. Since a decade, I've analysed some manipulated materials & media also. But most Bollywood guys are "Charvaks" or materialists, they only want name, fame, money. They don't care about culture, values, morals, ethics.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Passive radar homing missiles, comprehensive electronic warfare suite, reduced engine exhaust signature and exhaust angles, AESA FCR covering a wider cone with more peak power on tap, battlefield networking with ISR drones for a comprehensive scenario, ram coating for pylon carried stealthy cruise missiles to sneakily reach standoff firing range, heavy emphasis on hunter-killer capabilities, incredibly robust data/comm/sat link that resists electronic heavy environments. No telling what will end up in the final product 10 years from now. Depends on how much China can threaten us over the next few years. Quite crucial.

Very good points. Thanks for nice reply.
Some points were mentioned in past pages, some we'll take up.

 

[Ayan Barat]

CAUTION: Please don't mix religion here

Thank you for this big ahh red warning but any sane person (not be btw) would have easily understood how's my point was you prefer an official document like a schematic from patent (the orginal Geeta Press Ramayan) over any unofficial document like some CAD drawings from ArtStation (Adipurush)...as simple as it is

But as always, you drew a tangent of don't bring the religion.

People who file patents need to keep their research confidential to public till they present only to validation institution.

There is a reason why it's called "patent published"...it's never confidential.
This simply shows the level of general awareness you hide behind your "it's must be from M.Tech, I'm into CS-IT" argument everytime you're challenged on technical grounds.

The case of Arjun that I presented is the classic example of designing something based on old requirement...which in this case was getting better accuracy with HESH rounds, hench were still stuck with a rifled gun on Arjun. Interestingly to this you answered

Ask this question to GoI/MoD/DoD

So if ultimately it's them who are going to decide everything then why should we waste our energy going through multiple DRDO RFI documents to find one for the assembly jigs of SFDR and then dig some old Tweets of Kenny or GodOfParadoxes with a faint image of a slide to estimate how we can cram six missiles in the IWB?

Or you clear it right away that you've nothing to do with technical accuracy or practicality as such and you're just interested in fanfiction.

 

[Spitfire IX]

AMCA doubtless faces technical challenges, some of which will result in schedules being missed.

Is the Su-57 possibly the solution to two problems: the pressing IAF need for more fighter squadrons; the need for IAF to induct a 5G fighter sooner rather than later.

20th December indiandefenceupdates claimed that Russia will offer 70 Su-57 to India when Modi and Putin meet in January. Such a deal could provide IAF with a 5G fighter relatively quickly compared to AMCA. If deliveries could start being made in 3-5 years, MRFA could be scrapped - IAF could use Tejas Mk2 when it comes off the production line early to mid-2030's (my guess). After all, MRFA only exists IMO because of the cancellation of MMRCA 10 years ago and because of the failure to produce Tejas Mk2 in good time.

The fantasy of a future SAFRAN 110kN+ engine for AMCA could be laid to rest. AMCA could plod on, providing a focus for national pride and prestige, perhaps with the first F414-powered aircraft coming off the assembly line late 2030's.

21st December (today) indiandefenceupdates reports an F-35 counter offer to the reported upcoming Su-57 offer. I don't think that India would want F-35, would it? It is too dependent on input from the US to function, risking it becoming useless to India if India fell out with the US.

Of course, a lot hinges on whether Sukhoi can actually mass produce Su-57. So far there is not much evidence that it can. Made-in-India would delay production for so long that the main advantages Su-57 offers - early availability of a 5G fighter and more fighters to boost IAF strength - would be lost.

So I am in favour of India ordering Su-57 - made in Russia - providing Sukhoi can first come up with a credible explanation as to how it can mass produce it.

 

[Blademaster]

Or you clear it right away that you've nothing to do with technical accuracy or practicality as such and you're just interested in fanfiction.

No you pretty much made it clear that you are interested in only engaging in verbal sparring instead of real discussions. He did not make any denigrating comments in the beginning. You did and you can't stop doing it.

 

[Ayan Barat]

No you pretty much made it clear that you are interested in only engaging in verbal sparring instead of real discussions. He did not make any denigrating comments in the beginning. You did and you can't stop doing it.

Heyyy...you're a Mod now
Congratulations Buddy

[MOD's NOTE- Thanks for accepting and confirming that I am a moderator and making my decision much easier. You have been warned.]

 

[AbRaj]

@Ayan Barat @Bhartiya Sainik knock it off.
Dont get entangled in a ego war.
You both guys are really good and have your unique personalities. Avoid verbal duals and discuss with open mind

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Thank you for this big ahh red warning but any sane person (not be btw) would have easily understood how's my point was you prefer an official document like a schematic from patent (the orginal Geeta Press Ramayan) over any unofficial document like some CAD drawings from ArtStation (Adipurush)...as simple as it is
But as always, you drew a tangent of don't bring the religion.

Religion is very personal & sensitive thing, totally inappropriate, immatured comparison. Spark can become inferno There are numerous other things for analogy. But in your analogy also i told you that Bollywood doesn't care about culture, values, similarly CAD artists & time passers like me also don't care too strictly about PCM, that's brutal reality of unofficial chat forums which you don't wan't to accept. But you are fighting & dictating others over using CAD & unofficial things as if it is directly harming you or we're your servants.
This entire website is unofficial. What are you doing here?

There is a reason why it's called "patent published"...it's never confidential.

I've shown many times how you comprehend wrongly & now again see how reflexive you are. I said:

confidential to public till they present only to validation institution

Some material can be used/shared/propagated as long as Owner is credited &/or false IP (Intellectual Property) is not claimed.

If researcher won't keep their work confidential till published then others can steal their hard work & present as their own. My uncle/mausa got a small patent approved recently & threw a party. Many members here might be having friends, cousin, neighbor, etc into persuing higher education, R&D.
But the point is not R&D & Patents but you expecting Patents from 3D CAD artists

This simply shows the level of general awareness you hide behind your "it's must be from M.Tech, I'm into CS-IT" argument everytime you're challenged on technical grounds.

OHh!! So you still expect CS/IT guy to precisely know the term "Torx screw" Whatever i said about BTech/Mtech & its streams is true & verifiable bcoz i'm qualified & experienced professional. But whatever be the truth about you, your reply compels to think that you're not part Engineering academics/proffession. You might have got good grades in school, that's it. So leave general awareness & technically challenging others, you don't have common/civic sense:
- to read properly with patience
- for a polite communication
- to tolerate others opinions, speculations
- to talk with industrially experienced people
- to not mix sensitive/personal topics.
- to not expect people to know everything
- to not expect patents from artists This shows your general IQ, leave technical. You don't know many students with high grades flunk in HR round of interviews? You didn't attend GD/PI (Group Discussion / Personal Interview) classes?

I challenge you to join other forums, especially Western ones like F-16.net, secretprojects.co.uk, etc & stop them from using CAD, even their own ideas & speculations which happens 5-10x than here. You'll find even more funny things than here which look wrong from PCM PoV.

The case of Arjun that I presented is the classic example of designing something based on old requirement...which in this case was getting better accuracy with HESH rounds, hench were still stuck with a rifled gun on Arjun. Interestingly to this you answered

I personally know basic that rifled gun has better accuracy but shorter life than smoothbore gun, but how do you expect any member here to follow & know everything?
May be you are historian, journalist, drop-out like person having all the time.
You are basically showing that our govt./DoD/forces are not learning hence lagging so we should also stop speculating & discussing. Then shut down this website. We'll check official news channels only.

So if ultimately it's them who are going to decide everything then why should we waste our energy going through multiple DRDO RFI documents to find one for the assembly jigs of SFDR and then dig some old Tweets of Kenny or GodOfParadoxes with a faint image of a slide to estimate how we can cram six missiles in the IWB?

Who told YOU to do it? How many times you'll be told to ignore & move on what you dislike?
You spend your energy in what you are interested.
A simple google search or a friendly member shares some basic info like dimensions of weapon & IWB, rest is basic maths. You don't have to dig DRDO RFI docs to estimate weapons in AMCA's IWB.

Or you clear it right away that you've nothing to do with technical accuracy or practicality as such and you're just interested in fanfiction.

You still don't understand how casual chat forum works & meaning of enthusiast?????? This kind of forums are not for STRICT "factual" people like you Don't waste your time & energy.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Religion is very personal & sensitive thing, totally inappropriate, immatured comparison. Spark can become inferno There are numerous other things for analogy. But in your analogy also i told you that Bollywood doesn't care about culture, values, similarly CAD artists & time passers like me also don't care too strictly about PCM, that's brutal reality of unofficial chat forums which you don't wan't to accept. But you are fighting & dictating others over using CAD & unofficial things as if it is directly harming you or we're your servants.
This entire website is unofficial. What are you doing here?


I've shown many times how you comprehend wrongly & now again see how reflexive you are. I said:


If researcher won't keep their work confidential till published then others can steal their hard work & present as their own. My uncle/mausa got a small patent approved recently & threw a party. Many members here might be having friends, cousin, neighbor, etc into persuing higher education, R&D.
But the point is not R&D & Patents but you expecting Patents from 3D CAD artists



OHh!! So you still expect CS/IT guy to precisely know the term "Torx screw" Whatever i said about BTech/Mtech & its streams is true & verifiable bcoz i'm qualified & experienced professional. But whatever be the truth about you, your reply compels to think that you're not part Engineering academics/proffession. You might have got good grades in school, that's it. So leave general awareness & technically challenging others, you don't have common/civic sense:
- to read properly with patience
- for a polite communication
- to tolerate others opinions, speculations
- to talk with industrially experienced people
- to not mix sensitive/personal topics.
- to not expect people to know everything
- to not expect patents from artists This shows your general IQ, leave technical. You don't know many students with high grades flunk in HR round of interviews? You didn't attend GD/PI (Group Discussion / Personal Interview) classes?

I challenge you to join other forums, especially Western ones like F-16.net, secretprojects.co.uk, etc & stop them from using CAD, even their own ideas & speculations which happens 5-10x than here. You'll find even more funny things than here which look wrong from PCM PoV.


I personally know basic that rifled gun has better accuracy but shorter life than smoothbore gun, but how do you expect any member here to follow & know everything?
May be you are historian, journalist, drop-out like person having all the time.
You are basically showing that our govt./DoD/forces are not learning hence lagging so we should also stop speculating & discussing. Then shut down this website. We'll check official news channels only.


Who told YOU to do it? How many times you'll be told to ignore & move on what you dislike?
You spend your energy in what you are interested.
A simple google search or a friendly member shares some basic info like dimensions of weapon & IWB, rest is basic maths. You don't have to dig DRDO RFI docs to estimate weapons in AMCA's IWB.


You still don't understand how casual chat forum works & meaning of enthusiast?????? This kind of forums are not for STRICT "factual" people like you Don't waste your time & energy.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

View attachment 19166

Don't worry, good night!

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

@Ayan Barat @Bhartiya Sainik knock it off.
Dont get entangled in a ego war.
You both guys are really good and have your unique personalities. Avoid verbal duals and discuss with open mind

What ego? If factual youngsters don't accept certain facts like how casual forums work & just with some good PCM grades but w/o sufficient life experience start coaching experienced people "Don't do this/that, it is for your own good, you'll loose credibility", then they're in wrong place with wrong expectations.

 

[Anantanaga]

AMCA doubtless faces technical challenges, some of which will result in schedules being missed.

Is the Su-57 possibly the solution to two problems: the pressing IAF need for more fighter squadrons; the need for IAF to induct a 5G fighter sooner rather than later.

20th December indiandefenceupdates claimed that Russia will offer 70 Su-57 to India when Modi and Putin meet in January. Such a deal could provide IAF with a 5G fighter relatively quickly compared to AMCA. If deliveries could start being made in 3-5 years, MRFA could be scrapped - IAF could use Tejas Mk2 when it comes off the production line early to mid-2030's (my guess). After all, MRFA only exists IMO because of the cancellation of MMRCA 10 years ago and because of the failure to produce Tejas Mk2 in good time.

The fantasy of a future SAFRAN 110kN+ engine for AMCA could be laid to rest. AMCA could plod on, providing a focus for national pride and prestige, perhaps with the first F414-powered aircraft coming off the assembly line late 2030's.

21st December (today) indiandefenceupdates reports an F-35 counter offer to the reported upcoming Su-57 offer. I don't think that India would want F-35, would it? It is too dependent on input from the US to function, risking it becoming useless to India if India fell out with the US.

Of course, a lot hinges on whether Sukhoi can actually mass produce Su-57. So far there is not much evidence that it can. Made-in-India would delay production for so long that the main advantages Su-57 offers - early availability of a 5G fighter and more fighters to boost IAF strength - would be lost.

So I am in favour of India ordering Su-57 - made in Russia - providing Sukhoi can first come up with a credible explanation as to how it can mass produce it.

Yes, buy the Su-57 and kill of our indigenous fighter program. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Bleh]

Yes, buy the Su-57 and kill of our indigenous fighter program. What could possibly go wrong?

A semi-stealth Flanker++ is hardly any threat to AMCA's requirement

 

[AbRaj]

A semi-stealth Flanker++ is hardly any threat to AMCA's requirement

It maybe semi stealth but it definitely will not be cheap. Lack of proper stealth seems to be partly due to some design choices and partly due to poor manufacturing standards unlike US and China.
But IMO Su 57 is not the answer we are looking for.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

A semi-stealth Flanker++ is hardly any threat to AMCA's requirement

F++? I only know C++

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Su-57 Vs AMCA. It is up to DoD of they implement the possible elements, & timely.

 

[Blademaster]

Su-57 Vs AMCA. It is up to DoD of they implement the possible elements, & timely.

View attachment 19292

You left out the most important part - stealth.