ASTRA BVRAAM

[Wolfie]

We need a new version to fit 6 staggered Astr in IWB of IOC-AMCA, AMCA-MK2 or whatever people want to call it.
We have enough time & i think DRDO will easily come up with somethng after few years when few prototypes will be flying.

Cropped fins or folded fins can work, vlsrsam has folded fins.
Middle image

 

[Fatalis]

Astra Mk-1 is most probably seen as a stop gap solution till the Astra Mk-2 comes into service. That is why we are not seeing big number of orders coming in.

 

[125mm_Smoothbore]

Cropped fins or folded fins can work, vlsrsam has folded fins.View attachment 2269
Middle image

Why not go for a stealth cannister which can be mounted of the wing it could increase the air to air payload to 4(internal)+6(external) missile per amca

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

We need a new version to fit 6 staggered Astr in IWB of IOC-AMCA, AMCA-MK2 or whatever people want to call it.
We have enough time & i think DRDO will easily come up with somethng after few years when few prototypes will be flying.

My post from dfi

Tejas can carry only 2-3 bvrs in a full combat configuration. Shown in below picture. They have said astra mk3 will be carried on central pylon.. I think the wing need to be shortened of astra mk1 to accomodate it on central pylon..

We have already tested short wing vertical launched vlsrsam astra's. I think it has foldable wings too. this can be put there be it single or 2 with dual pylon.
The vlsrsam is longer As they put TVC. I would say use same missile (astra mk1A) just put more propellant instead of TVC, tvc is no used in Bvrs.

 

[Wolfie]

Why not go for a stealth cannister which can be mounted of the wing it could increase the air to air payload to 4(internal)+6(external) missile per amca

Maneuverability will be affected, your dog fights happens in clean configuration without drop tanks. Those pods are proposed for f15ex , let's see

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Why not go for a stealth cannister which can be mounted of the wing it could increase the air to air payload to 4(internal)+6(external) missile per amca

Maneuverability will be affected, your dog fights happens in clean configuration without drop tanks. Those pods are proposed for f15ex , let's see
View attachment 2271

Very bad idea actually. Americans try to confuse entire world on Stealth, RCS. On 1 side they design VLO F-22 with minimum bumps, vents, with export ban. They made many documentries to explain stealth. Then they come up with stealth pod for 4th gen jets like F-18 & others.
Once empty after firing all weapons those will become liability with big aerodynamic penalty.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Very bad idea actually. Americans try to confuse entire world on Stealth, RCS. On 1 side they design VLO F-22 with minimum bumps, vents, with export ban. They made many documentries to explain stealth. Then they come up with stealth pod for 4th gen jets like F-18 & others.
Once empty after firing all weapons those will become liability with big aerodynamic penalty.

The f18 block 3 is very low observable.
So its actually a advantage to carry weapons while being vlo.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

The f18 block 3 is very low observable.
So its actually a advantage to carry weapons while being vlo.

How exactly Boeing wants us to believe that after F-22? F-18 engine blades still visible. Its entire airframe from every angle is a blunder from 5th gen PoV.
F-22 RCS is 0.00015 sqm & F-18 E/F was 1sqm, now they say 0.1 sqm.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

How exactly Boeing wants us to believe that after F-22? F-18 engine blades still visible. Its entire airframe from every angle is a blunder from 5th gen PoV.
F-22 RCS is 0.00015 sqm & F-18 E/F was 1sqm, now they say 0.1 sqm.

Well stealth is not about staying undetected, it's all abt delaying the detection.
Lower the RCS lower the detection.
F18 with loaded weapons pod will be the most vlo 4/4.5 gen aircraft.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Well stealth is not about staying undetected, it's all abt delaying the detection.
Lower the RCS lower the detection.

Yeah we all know that

F18 with loaded weapons pod will be the most vlo 4/4.5 gen aircraft.

We will never know that

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

We will never know that

So then what's the point of putting it on f18.
F18 has ram coatings. Us Navy fielded fa18 to its max potential.

Anyways irrespective thread for this discussion

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

So then what's the point of putting it on f18.
F18 has ram coatings. Us Navy fielded fa18 to its max potential.

Anyways irrespective thread for this discussion

Like i said F-22 RCS is 0.0001 sqm
F-18's new RCS is 0.1 sqm
meaning ratio of 1:1000 ........ "F-18 RCS is 1000 times more that F-22" How does this sound? Where would we like AMCA to fit in between 1 & 1000?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Well stealth is not about staying undetected, it's all abt delaying the detection.
Lower the RCS lower the detection.
F18 with loaded weapons pod will be the most vlo 4/4.5 gen aircraft.

Nah, that is by faar rafale

FA18 has exposed engines lol, thoseare the biggest source fo radar reflections. There's been some Radar reducing efforts, but its not stealthy by a long shot, random claims notwithstanding.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Nah, that is by faar rafale

FA18 has exposed engines lol, thoseare the biggest source fo radar reflections. There's been some Radar reducing efforts, but its not stealthy by a long shot, random claims notwithstanding.

And when did I say it's stealthy.
I said low observable now compared to earlier one.
Any reduction in RCS is good.
It delays detection. And so it will help f18.
We too are trying to reduce su30 RCS.
My claim is not random it's indeed a low observable aircraft

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

And when did I say it's stealthy.
I said low observable now compared to earlier one.
Any reduction in RCS is good.
It delays detection. And so it will help f18.
We too are trying to reduce su30 RCS.
My claim is not random it's indeed a low observable aircraft

Sooo it's not stealthy, but it's the most vlo (very low observable, e.i. stealthy) 4/4.5 gen aircraft?

Come on man.

It has some rcs reduction, but not near enough to match vlo 4.5 gen planes

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

It has some rcs reduction, but not near enough to match vlo 4.5 gen planes (trust me bro)

If it wouldn't have had impactful RCS reduction they would have never went with stealth pod for f18.
I would like to end here.

 

[BON PLAN]

Astra Mk1: Govt places order for first indigenous BVR missile

A Defence Ministry statement said Astra Mk1 has been designed and developed “based on the staff requirements issued by the Indian Air Force catering for beyond visual range as well as close combat engagement, reducing the dependency on foreign sources”.

indianexpress.com

initial order is of 250 missiles (with 500-600 missile follow up order anticipated by bdl)

With the size of indian air and marine air force, the local market for ASTRA will be far bigger. I would say at least 2500 missiles.

 

[MirageBlue]

So is it been accepted for fleet widespread use or is it only for marginal purposes and uses?

Astra Mk1 was brought into service even before the full set of user trials were completed by the IAF. This happened right after the Galwan incident with China. the IAF didn't wait for it to clear all the user trials. They knew it was far superior to the R-77 and Su-30MKIs armed with Astra Mk1 were in theater soon after.

Source- ACM RKS Bhadauria, in his podcast with Smita Prakash.

 

[Wolfie]

With the size of indian air and marine air force, the local market for ASTRA will be far bigger. I would say at least 2500 missiles.

Total order size is in range of 400-600 for mk1, mk 2 is yet to be inducted.

 

[MirageBlue]

So a piecemeal order instead of a solid block buy with a firm commitment. IAF needs at least 2k of these to implement on a fleet wise basis.

That is not how it works.

The production was being set up by BDL for full scale production. Prior to that, a small batch was built for the IAF to further conduct trials and use in any emergency.

It is not like 2000 Astra Mk1s will be needed to arm the entire fleet as such. It is not on every mission that fighters carry active armed BVRAAMs. Mostly, they are stored on bases and only used when needed.

The IAF is also looking at the Astra Mk2 which is dual pulse and longer ranged. There will be a mix of the two to replace the R-77 and R-27 completely. Those R-77 and R-27s can then be moved to the SAMAR batteries to be used as re-purposed SAMs.