China military and weapon development

[Kontakt5]

What makes the AMCA a genuine fifth-generation fighter jet is its end user — the Indian Air Force. IAF would never accept a fighter that doesn’t meet its operational standards, especially when it has the option to import jets from anywhere in the world. Unless an indigenous product matches the capabilities of the best global options, Indian Air Force simply won’t accept it.

In the case of Tejas, it is the only fighter jet in the world capable of directly replacing MiG-21. There is no other viable option globally. The hardened shelters built for MiG-21 can only accommodate Tejas — all other modern fighter jets are simply too large to fit into those shelters.

China wants to compete with the USAF directly, how much do we know about the PLAAF? How would the Chinese ever hope to compete with the USAF if they never improved there selves and only inducted garbage equipment? I'm tired of the sights of pakistan, india should be aiming at China, china is the true threat and not the failed state we already have beaten into the ground. In order to truly compete with China, india must be preparing itself to face the USAF aswell.

At this moment the MOD should be scared, it should be scared how pitiful the IAF current state is, it should be scared that it lacks strategic autonomy in terms of engine technology. It should be scared how many fifth-gens are enemies are operating. Only by being scared will the government truly pour the necessary resources in to beat our true enemies. Staying in the zone of comfort will never lead to timely developments. Mocking chinese weapons will only lead to delays in important projects. Why? Because if they are garbage, counters can wait.

It's great that AMCA will be genuine fifth-generation fighter, but by 2035, do you believe China will not have upgraded the J-20, and J-35 to also be genuine, or even be 5.5gen, 2035, 10 years from now, The J-20 or J-35 will not be standing still, they will also be receiving new technology too. To diminish the tech of china currently while proudly stating the capabilities of AMCA in the future, they do not take into account the developments China will also make in that timeframe.

This is why im scared, all of Indias research and manufacturing might should've been poured into AMCA 10 years ago. AMCA should've entered service today, however delays and delays, now we wait for 2035. It's absolutely pitiful, the MOD should be ashamed. WHERE is the URGENCY? I'm so defeated im not even sure AMCA will even be ready by 2035, why is everything so F**King SLOW.

Can we think about this for 1 damn second, Imagine it's 2034, AMCA is almost nearing service, it's all fantastic, what a marvelous achievement by the Indian state. But zoom out for one second. By 2034, the USAF will be operating 2,000+ F-35's, with F-47 likely already entering service, while China, behind the USA at maybe 1200+ J-20's and a couple hundred J-35's, with likely their sixth-gen counterpart to try and match the USA.

India by this point, will be lucky to have 1 singular AMCA in service. Why is no one in the government panicking at this thought?

Idc how garbage you think the Chinese fighters are, they will be upgrading them, and by 2034, China's fifth-gen fleet will completely outnumber the entirety of the IAF. This is only natural for them, afterall they are chasing the might of the USAF, they have big aims. While India only aims at deterring a failed backwater state that might not even exist by 2035.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

J-20's are not sold for export. China has never advertised the J-20. This is like what USA did with the F-22. The J-35 has just started serial production. There are rumors that the J-35 have another export partner other than Pakistan. What makes the AMCA a genuine fifth-gen aircraft in which the J-20 and J-35 do not possess? The constant chest thumping of AMCA does not make it better than other fighter jets, cmon. We need more logical thinkers here.

Fighter jet sales have often to do with international politics and relations, more than technological prowess. Buying from China is risky on the international stage as currently, the USA has more leverage and control of the global economy. Not only are fighter jets expensive, they hold political strings. There are not many "Rich" countries that are allied with China, mostly poor backwaters like pakistan. They cannot afford such expensive technology.

It's extremely bad logic to say that more exports = better fighter jet. By your logic Tejas mk1 is worse than JF-17, because JF-17 has more export orders. India has lacked export success in any of it's domestic aircraft, so how can you say that AMCA will be 100% genuine fifth-gen? Where are all the countries lining up to buy AMCA over the F-35?

I'm afraid the Indian defense sphere needs to play less on emotions, and more on practicalities. Downplaying Chinese advances while hyping up Indian advances literally serves no purpose than to please a domestic audience.

When this kind of thinking makes it's way up to the minds of the babus, they start to believe their own propaganda and slows AMCA down even more. I remember when top IAF genrols and chiefs stated that Rafale can easily shoot down chinese junk fifth gen aircraft. With this kind of thinking, why does IAF even need AMCA? Rafales can do the job already.. Due to neglience, strategic programs in Indian defense have been delayed and delayed, due to lack of priority.

If IAF truly wanted strategic autonomy and feared advances of adversaries, Kaveri would've gotten far more funding, I believed more resources could've been allocated to Tejas, and MK2 would already be in service. YET there is no sense of urgency in the government or the military establishment? Do they feel content with their current predicament? Why is progress so slow, it's because they feel safe and do not worry about external threats.

This is exactly the problem that slows down IAF procurement again and again, you people spreading the same narrative over and over, SCREWING OVER THE IAF.

Except no one knows what the Chinese “advances” are? The J35 is a plane built with stolen blueprints from the USA. Many Chinese spies were arrested and jailed for it. CCP’s spy den - aka the Houston consulate was forcibly shut down. I do not believe in stealing blueprints and reverse engineering to come out with a quality product. The CCP can put on whatever PR show but underneath the tofu building is a weak foundation, cutting corners. I do not believe in any “advanced” capabilities of the CCP. Most of it is either some earlier generation projects from the west or heavily edited PR. We all saw what happened to the much hyped wingloooooong drones. It was a spectacular failure. And all operating countries returned or trashed them.

 

[Kontakt5]

Except no one knows what the Chinese “advances” are? The J35 is a plane built with stolen blueprints from the USA. Many Chinese spies were arrested and jailed for it. CCP’s spy den - aka the Houston consulate was forcibly shut down. I do not believe in stealing blueprints and reverse engineering to come out with a quality product. The CCP can put on whatever PR show but underneath the tofu building is a weak foundation, cutting corners. I do not believe in any “advanced” capabilities of the CCP. Most of it is either some earlier generation projects from the west or heavily edited PR. We all saw what happened to the much hyped wingloooooong drones. It was a spectacular failure. And all operating countries returned or trashed them.

How are we still living in the same world where China makes zero advances, and only makes cheap inferior copies. If this is the case, why is the US so urgently trying to move from the European to the Asian pacific theatre. I'm sorry if I trust American threat evaluation judgement more than Indian ones on the state of the Chinese armed forces.

Intellectual theft was a foundation to the Soviet Union's advances in the Cold War, and it slowly allowed the USSR to build a technological foundation, and create products that could rival those from the USA. It's completely foolish to think the Chinese, who are the exact same species as everyone else, cannot ever learn or compete with other humans on earth. Sure, many Soviet projects were complete garbage, but some were absolutely capable, this can be said for the Chinese armed forces as well, corruption and corner cuttings are just a part of the dictator package. But to simply believe that NOTHING in China has any advanced capabilities, is quite the big assumption.


For some reason, the base assumption that China may prove to be a massive threat to India, Might paint me as a chinky shill on this forum. Is my logic so unfounded that China, a country with aims to displace the USA as the global hegemon, a country that spends hundreds of billions of dollars in modernizing it's military, could possibly develop technologies at a rate India in it's current state cannot keep up?

I honestly don't give a shit how powerful or weak Chinese fighter jets are. I just want to MOD to take any fighter from any adversary as a real threat so funding can be allocated to Indian projects faster. if you believe the Chinese will only forever build crappy jets, fine. You are allowed to have your own opinions. but please do not make those as such mainstream ideas the babus start to listen to you and believe 5th gen or 6th gen technologies can wait, and funding can be pushed elsewhere because adversaries don't possess genuine 5th gen aircraft.

Like I said when IAF genrol said "rafale beat's J-20s" I almost flipped my shit, he's another foreign maal enjoyer who is pushing for more rafale imports, which takes money away from domestic projects like Tejas Mk2 and AMCA. I have so much emotion against all these bullshit takes by genrols and babus. Everything to delay funding for domestic projects right? You guys might as well be psyops funded by the pakistanis.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

How are we still living in the same world where China makes zero advances, and only makes cheap inferior copies. If this is the case, why is the US so urgently trying to move from the European to the Asian pacific theatre. I'm sorry if I trust American threat evaluation judgement more than Indian ones on the state of the Chinese armed forces.

Intellectual theft was a foundation to the Soviet Union's advances in the Cold War, and it slowly allowed the USSR to build a technological foundation, and create products that could rival those from the USA. It's completely foolish to think the Chinese, who are the exact same species as everyone else, cannot ever learn or compete with other humans on earth. Sure, many Soviet projects were complete garbage, but some were absolutely capable, this can be said for the Chinese armed forces as well, corruption and corner cuttings are just a part of the dictator package. But to simply believe that NOTHING in China has any advanced capabilities, is quite the big assumption.


For some reason, the base assumption that China may prove to be a massive threat to India, Might paint me as a chinky shill on this forum. Is my logic so unfounded that China, a country with aims to displace the USA as the global hegemon, a country that spends hundreds of billions of dollars in modernizing it's military, could possibly develop technologies at a rate India in it's current state cannot keep up?

I honestly don't give a shit how powerful or weak Chinese fighter jets are. I just want to MOD to take any fighter from any adversary as a real threat so funding can be allocated to Indian projects faster. if you believe the Chinese will only forever build crappy jets, fine. You are allowed to have your own opinions. but please do not make those as such mainstream ideas the babus start to listen to you and believe 5th gen or 6th gen technologies can wait, and funding can be pushed elsewhere because adversaries don't possess genuine 5th gen aircraft.

Like I said when IAF genrol said "rafale beat's J-20s" I almost flipped my shit, he's another foreign maal enjoyer who is pushing for more rafale imports, which takes money away from domestic projects like Tejas Mk2 and AMCA. I have so much emotion against all these bullshit takes by genrols and babus. Everything to delay funding for domestic projects right? You guys might as well be psyops funded by the pakistanis.

Do not agree with any of your claims. Nothing is known. Nothing is proven. Indian and American weapons are battle tested and proven. Your understanding of how India funds its projects is flawed. Remember India deployed SSBNs stealthily without anyone knowing. The program was under wraps for years. Rafale is a potent platform especially its weapons systems like the Meteor, SCALP and HAMMER. Tejas is delayed due to supply chain issues with the USA and no longer because of domestic production capacity.
By the way who messes with India other than the stupid porki idiots with their hyper inflated ego and unjustified bravado just to mislead their masses? Ultimately, no one messes with a power that has a nuclear triad in place. Period. India needs to develop new age tech for advancement of humanity. There are no existential threats for India to turn into a Soviet Union or China. Porkis will over spend, lose more wars, Balkanize and disappear. They not only lack monetary resources, but common sense as well.

 

[chnvipgz]

Chinese caught with biological weapons.


View: https://x.com/BillGertz/status/1930039975900524739?t=0SPCU-VWvTwQWfEoxI6mJA&s=19

 

[rockdog]

View: https://x.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1930211821111140598?t=Fo-Q22jdiSXRojIwrosBoQ&s=19

 

[Kontakt5]

Do not agree with any of your claims. Nothing is known. Nothing is proven. Indian and American weapons are battle tested and proven. Your understanding of how India funds its projects is flawed. Remember India deployed SSBNs stealthily without anyone knowing. The program was under wraps for years. Rafale is a potent platform especially its weapons systems like the Meteor, SCALP and HAMMER. Tejas is delayed due to supply chain issues with the USA and no longer because of domestic production capacity.
By the way who messes with India other than the stupid porki idiots with their hyper inflated ego and unjustified bravado just to mislead their masses? Ultimately, no one messes with a power that has a nuclear triad in place. Period. India needs to develop new age tech for advancement of humanity. There are no existential threats for India to turn into a Soviet Union or China. Porkis will over spend, lose more wars, Balkanize and disappear. They not only lack monetary resources, but common sense as well.

Yeah I don't understand how India funds work when only 300mil dollars are spent on kaveri for 40 years. No domestic testing facilities or domestic high altitude test beds funded at all. Engine has been biggest roadblock for domestic indian aircraft, yet no one put's any money or resources for it, while tens of billions of dollars goes to importing foreign jets. Okay.