Chinese Economy Watch

[E-195]

Racist attack to person, i m reporting.

@E-195

Next time, watch your langaue. and Thx to Mod.

View attachment 11983

Hypocrite but since you want to play victim next time you ever insult me or try ti imply Mexicans are Drug dealers hypocrite I will report you Hypocrite

 

[Vinash]

@E-195 and @rockdog calm down guys.

Racist attacks from either side are unacceptable.

Also, I'll move any further off-topic posts to chit chat thread. Stick to economy discussions on this thread.

 

[Azaad]

QS said 3 Chinese colleges among world top20

QS World University Rankings 2025

Explore QS World University Rankings® 2025 of 1503 institutions based on 8 key ranking indicators- academics, faculty/student ratio, international student & more.

www.topuniversities.com

Please also list how many foreign students especially from the west are studying at these top 10, 20 , 50 or 100 "world ranked universities" in China. While you're at it you can probably also inform us of the number of Chinese students in the west . I'm sure MSS has all the data compiled. All you've to do is share it here.

 

[helin]

Tesla Shanghai factory hits milestone output of 3 mln cars​

The 3 millionth vehicle produced by Tesla Gigafactory Shanghai rolls off the assembly line in Shanghai, east China, Oct. 11, 2024. The 3 millionth vehicle produced by Tesla Gigafactory Shanghai rolled off the assembly line on Friday, reaching a new milestone amid the U.S. company's commitment to developing along with China's new energy sector. (Xinhua)

SHANGHAI, Oct. 11 (Xinhua) -- The 3 millionth vehicle produced by Tesla Gigafactory Shanghai rolled off the assembly line on Friday, reaching a new milestone amid the U.S. company's commitment to developing along with China's new energy sector.

The vehicle, a fully electric Model Y, drove off the assembly line at 6 p.m., the company said.

Tesla's Shanghai plant, the carmaker's first gigafactory outside the United States, began construction in January 2019, and turned out the first vehicle in December of that year.

The Shanghai factory produced its first 1 million cars in over 30 months, while it took about 13 months for the output to climb from 2 million to 3 million, according to the company.

The first three quarters of this year saw the Shanghai factory deliver 675,000 vehicles, accounting for over half of the company's global deliveries during the period, Tesla said.

One third of the 3 million vehicles produced by the factory have been sold to markets outside the Chinese mainland, including Europe and Asia-Pacific countries, it said.

In May, the U.S. company broke ground on a mega factory in Shanghai to manufacture its energy-storage batteries Megapacks. The new factory is expected to start operation in the first quarter of next year.

 

[rockdog]

Tesla Shanghai factory hits milestone output of 3 mln cars​

The 3 millionth vehicle produced by Tesla Gigafactory Shanghai rolls off the assembly line in Shanghai, east China, Oct. 11, 2024. The 3 millionth vehicle produced by Tesla Gigafactory Shanghai rolled off the assembly line on Friday, reaching a new milestone amid the U.S. company's commitment to developing along with China's new energy sector. (Xinhua)

SHANGHAI, Oct. 11 (Xinhua) -- The 3 millionth vehicle produced by Tesla Gigafactory Shanghai rolled off the assembly line on Friday, reaching a new milestone amid the U.S. company's commitment to developing along with China's new energy sector.

The vehicle, a fully electric Model Y, drove off the assembly line at 6 p.m., the company said.

Tesla's Shanghai plant, the carmaker's first gigafactory outside the United States, began construction in January 2019, and turned out the first vehicle in December of that year.

The Shanghai factory produced its first 1 million cars in over 30 months, while it took about 13 months for the output to climb from 2 million to 3 million, according to the company.

The first three quarters of this year saw the Shanghai factory deliver 675,000 vehicles, accounting for over half of the company's global deliveries during the period, Tesla said.

One third of the 3 million vehicles produced by the factory have been sold to markets outside the Chinese mainland, including Europe and Asia-Pacific countries, it said.

In May, the U.S. company broke ground on a mega factory in Shanghai to manufacture its energy-storage batteries Megapacks. The new factory is expected to start operation in the first quarter of next year.

BYD's 8 millions EV to 9 millions EV:

Jul 5, 2024

BYD produces its 8 millionth EV, takes three months for last million · TechNode

BYD said on Thursday it has produced its eight millionth electric vehicle, just three months after producing its seven millionth unit globally at its

technode.com

Sep 25 2024

BYD rolls 9 millionth NEV off its assembly lines with 1 million built in last 3 months alone

BYD rolls 9 millionth NEV off its assembly lines with 1 million built in last 3 months alone

Yes, you read that correctly. Nine million new energy vehicles (NEVs) built. Chinese automaker Build Your Dreams (BYD) continues to...

electrek.co

 

[E-195]

Please also list how many foreign students especially from the west are studying at these top 10, 20 , 50 or 100 "world ranked universities" in China. While you're at it you can probably also inform us of the number of Chinese students in the west . I'm sure MSS has all the data compiled. All you've to do is share it here.

I have studied overseas in Japan and New Zealand, I never saw in both places anything I would not have studied in Mexico.

Ranking an University is politically and economically motivated.

Economically because an income to the host country since school fees are paid, second is capture of smart people.

My nephew in Germany did not see anything they would not have taught him in Mexico, what the so call it good universities have is mostly very expensive school fees,

True some universities have good equipment and some have very good courses, specially in masters and Doctorates, but the best way are research centers and many are run by private companies, so i could easily say that Embraer for example or Tata have better research than universities since the top knowledge is privately owned. Same is Intel or Nvidia

 

[E-195]

BYD's 8 millions EV to 9 millions EV:

Jul 5, 2024

BYD produces its 8 millionth EV, takes three months for last million · TechNode

BYD said on Thursday it has produced its eight millionth electric vehicle, just three months after producing its seven millionth unit globally at its

technode.com

Sep 25 2024

BYD rolls 9 millionth NEV off its assembly lines with 1 million built in last 3 months alone

BYD rolls 9 millionth NEV off its assembly lines with 1 million built in last 3 months alone

Yes, you read that correctly. Nine million new energy vehicles (NEVs) built. Chinese automaker Build Your Dreams (BYD) continues to...

electrek.co

EU to Impose Tariffs Up to 45% on Chinese Electric Vehicles​

• The new tariffs will be in effect for a period of five years
• China has threatened tariffs on Europe’s car and dairy sectors

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

US Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump has vowed to impose a 100-percent tariff on every car manufactured in and imported from Mexico if he is reelected.

The former US president made the remark on Tuesday while speaking about his plans to boost manufacturing in the southern state of Georgia, a battleground state in November's presidential election.

Trump has previously proposed applying a 100-percent tariff to cars made in Mexico by Chinese firms.

Trump vows to impose 100% tariffs on cars coming from Mexico | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News

US Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump has vowed to impose a 100-percent tariff on every car manufactured in and imported from Mexico if he is reelected.

www3.nhk.or.jp

 

[E-195]

Chinese merchants claim to be monopolizing premises in the Historic Center of Mexico City
Mexican shopkeepers claim to have been displaced by Chinese in the Historic Center of Mexico City

Denuncian que comerciantes chinos acaparan locales en el Centro Histórico de la CDMX

Locatarios mexicanos aseguran que han sido son desplazados por chinos en el Centro Histórico de la Ciudad de México

lopezdoriga.com

REFORMA published in its editions yesterday and today that, in less than a year and a half, tenants of the Historic Center have suffered displacement because the area that was once a commercial area, even for decades, has had to close because Chinese businessmen rent or buy the spaces for double or triple the price to install hundreds of warehouses.

At least 17 commercial and residential buildings on at least 13 streets are now warehouses.

In addition to the closure of stores, loss of formal jobs and damage to the infrastructure of the Center, recently remodeled with money from the public treasury, as well as civil protection risks in the most important stores, risks and informality for the employees of said warehouses, Canaco estimated that the massive arrival of Asian products -Chinese and Korean- and the growth of macroplazas to sell and distribute them causes losses to established merchants of 65 billion pesos and the lack of taxation to the SAT generates losses of 38 billion pesos more, only in the clothing industry. In this regard, Batres said that, after what was said, he plans to hold meetings with authorities to determine the extent of the displacement.

"Yes, we are paying attention to the problem that has several impacts of various types, but in the next few days (he will inform us)."

The local leader said that in a few days, without specifying deadlines, he would provide information on what they collect and operations or actions would be announced in this regard.

"Based on the diagnosis we have, we would have to see.

"We will have to deal with this at another time so that we can have information because it is multidisciplinary information: it covers several topics, one part that is commercial, another part that is criminal, another part that is social.

"So we will meet with the areas to have information on this and then we will be able to provide better information," he indicated.

Hará CDMX diagnóstico de afectación por comercio chino

Martí Batres afirmó que realizarán un diagnóstico sobre el desplazamiento y afectaciones del comercio chino en el Centro Histórico.

www.reforma.com

The National Association of Automobile Manufacturers (Anfavea) has asked the federal government to further increase taxes on cars imported from China. Brazilian automakers believe that the increase in tariffs that will be applied in July is still too low, which, according to them, harms the national industry.

Currently, electric and hybrid vehicles (of all types) have rates of 10% and 12%, respectively. Starting July 1, the values will increase to 25% for mild and full hybrids, 20% for plug-ins and 18% for electric vehicles.

Read more: Searches for new Chinese cars grew 220% between 2021 and 2023 in Brazil
For the president of Anfavea, Márcio de Lima Leite, the tax increase that comes into effect in July is not enough to ensure fair competition

Montadoras brasileiras querem barrar carros elétricos chineses com taxas mais altas

As montadoras consideram que as taxas atuais são muito baixas, e prejudicam a indústria nacional.

www.tecmundo.com.br

 

[rockdog]

Heard this drone company made big momey days ago in Saudi.


View: https://x.com/waitbutwhy/status/1472296597551820807?t=VaKuMFfsoltFhCfegG4MfQ&s=19


View: https://x.com/xianDouhua2023/status/1844675604060512511?t=_pxrur4FEU_SD5szWXdQXQ&s=19


View: https://x.com/KzAjar91983/status/1845051862409773105?t=U8L2ypk2a91LsDSzDV-88A&s=19

 

[rockdog]

 

[srev2004]

View attachment 12092

Tesla FSD works in all cities in North America and Europe

 

[Azaad]

EU to Impose Tariffs Up to 45% on Chinese Electric Vehicles​

• The new tariffs will be in effect for a period of five years
• China has threatened tariffs on Europe’s car and dairy sectors

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

US Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump has vowed to impose a 100-percent tariff on every car manufactured in and imported from Mexico if he is reelected.

The former US president made the remark on Tuesday while speaking about his plans to boost manufacturing in the southern state of Georgia, a battleground state in November's presidential election.

Trump has previously proposed applying a 100-percent tariff to cars made in Mexico by Chinese firms.

Trump vows to impose 100% tariffs on cars coming from Mexico | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News

US Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump has vowed to impose a 100-percent tariff on every car manufactured in and imported from Mexico if he is reelected.

www3.nhk.or.jp

I don't think this part is difficult to address at all by the CCP isn't it @rockdog ? All it means is more subsidies .

Since CCP has a lot of money in any case & it's now pursuing a strategy of no more sinking money in yesterday's growth drivers like real estate etc but next gen tech like SMCs , EV , AI , ML etc plus Zhongghuo has little to no inflation why can't it spend a few 100 billion USD on more subsidies to the EV sector especially since the avowed aim of the CCP is complete closure of the gwailou industry beginning with the automotive sector before extentions into other industries & total dependence of the gwailou on Zhongghuo.

 

[rockdog]

Tesla FSD woin all cities in North Amerinot.the and Europe

So FSD and robotaxi are two different business models, not the same thing.


Tesla CyberCab is equivalent to Baidu Apollo go.



View: https://x.com/CarlZha/status/1844752323832316380?t=qE_uDoKlXQnD2LYxNlueAA&s=19



Xpeng and Huawei have same FSD stuff.


View: https://youtu.be/U_iLJHav_w0?si=PGDvPFE2AaC4yECo


View: https://youtu.be/htPHO4rY4oA?si=26ONGvY3tDd231WW

 

[srev2004]

So FSD and robotaxi are two different business models, not the same thing.


Tesla CyberCab is equivalent to Baidu Apollo go.



View: https://x.com/CarlZha/status/1844752323832316380?t=qE_uDoKlXQnD2LYxNlueAA&s=19



Xpeng and Huawei have same FSD stuff.


View: https://youtu.be/U_iLJHav_w0?si=PGDvPFE2AaC4yECo


View: https://youtu.be/htPHO4rY4oA?si=26ONGvY3tDd231WW

hate to break your bubble, but robotaxi is not a fully autonomous solution. FSD requires driver supervision; robotaxi requires Remote Assistance from an army of human in the loop interveners.

On the Go: The Humans Steering the Future of China’s Robotaxis

Safety operators and the data they collect are playing a crucial role as Baidu’s Apollo Go program looks to further expand in Wuhan and beyond.

www.sixthtone.com

The safety operators intervene very 4-5 km. You can sell the snake oil, elsewhere. Tesla is the only at scale FSD deployment currently without human in the loop intervention. Only reason this is taking off in China and not US is that the cost of labor in China is cheap. It has nothing to do with Chinese technology being superior.

In simple terms, China had figured out how to scale autonomy by scaling remote assistance operators for self driving vehicles. This model doesn’t work in the US because the cost of labor is much higher, hence the delay in launching at scale.

 

[rockdog]

hate to breaarour buouside,but robotaxi is not a fully autonomous solution. FSD requires driver supervision; robotaxi requires Remote Assistance from an army of human in the loop interveners.

On the Go: The Humans Steering the Future of China’s Robotaxis

Safety operators and the data they collect are playing a crucial role as Baidu’s Apollo Go program looks to further expand in Wuhan and beyond.

www.sixthtone.com

The safety operators intervene very 4-5 km. You can sell the snake oil, elsewhere. Tesla is the only at scale FSD deployment currently without human in the loop intervention. Only reason this is taking off in China and not US is that the cost of labor in China is cheap. It has nothing to do with Chinese technology being superior.

In simple terms, China had figured out how to scale autonomy by scaling remote assistance operators for self driving vehicles. This model doesn’t work in the US because the cost of labor is much higher, hence the delay in launching at scale.

Again, u compared robotaxi with FSD, u were wrong. FSD current is mainly desgiened for personal drvier, but robotaxi operated by firm. From business model to insurance and legal, they are different, u made wrong comparison.



Different nations have different solutions on robotaxi.

China has more complicated traffic conditions than USA, which means it has more "corner cases" on initial stage.

eg.
Apollo Go jamed when the school off the class and parents waiting out ouside.

According to Chinese traffic law, vechile must wait if there was kids out from school.So it waited.10mins, made passenger went crazy.

At this corner case, the remote driver had to do something.

So the more corner cases being tested, there will be less remote driver to robotaxi ratio in the future.



If compare to india, India would face more complicated situation, like worse road condition, more animals penetration on lanes, which means there must be more interfere from human if India will lauch similar service.

Plus China has 70% of worlds 5G base station, which only 1ms delay, but 4G has 10ms delay. So 5:1 remote driver to robotaxi raito is still reaonable, no matter from business logic to employment as a social stability issue.

 

[Anants]

Actually I agree with you. In India too Hybrid mode shall be needed if FSD is ever to be implemented. All the corner cases shall be needed to be handled by a driver. However intervention can taper off with time if manual intervention can be fed back to FSD algo as some sort of reinforcement learning

 

[rockdog]

Actually I agrgood conditionith you. In India too Hybrid mode shall be needed if FSD is ever to be implemented. All the corner cases shall be needed to be handled by a driver. However intervention can taper off with time if manual intervention can be fed back to FSD algo as some sort of reinforcement learning

As far as i had discussion with my former Indian team, maybe Noida and Guragang have good road.condition to make first robotaxi application in Inida.

 

[srev2004]

Again, u compared robotaxi with FSD, u were wrong. FSD current is mainly desgiened for personal drvier, but robotaxi operated by firm. From business model to insurance and legal, they are different, u made wrong comparison.

View attachment 12132

Different nations have different solutions on robotaxi.

China has more complicated traffic conditions than USA, which means it has more "corner cases" on initial stage.

eg.
Apollo Go jamed when the school off the class and parents waiting out ouside.

According to Chinese traffic law, vechile must wait if there was kids out from school.So it waited.10mins, made passenger went crazy.

At this corner case, the remote driver had to do something.

So the more corner cases being tested, there will be less remote driver to robotaxi ratio in the future.

View attachment 12134

If compare to india, India would face more complicated situation, like worse road condition, more animals penetration on lanes, which means there must be more interfere from human if India will lauch similar service.

Plus China has 70% of worlds 5G base station, which only 1ms delay, but 4G has 10ms delay. So 5:1 remote driver to robotaxi raito is still reaonable, no matter from business logic to employment as a social stability issue.

Yeah so the technology is nothing special, China has more humans than US, therefore more cities deployed

FSD is the only true autonomy. Robotaxi is a non scalable smoke and mirror technology which won’t scale to every person. Without remote operators intervening, every 4-5km; no one would trust or ride robotaxi. The main difference is not business mode since the Tesla Cybercab also uses FSD. The main difference is the technology. fSD does real time scene perception and uses Generative AI to problem solve corner cases. Robotaxi uses rote learning and prior HD maps to memorize the route and uses human intervention for edge cases. Think virtual train tracks for cars. Like I said FSD is true autonomy on the classical sense as it is reproducing the capability of a human driver without a HD map. Robotaxi is not true autonomy.

The HD map does most of the critical planning and the edge cases are solved by remote operators. The only autonomy in a robotaxi is the collision avoidance and the motion planning. This utilizes the prior map to do the route planning and then does the motion plan using a rule based algorithm.

 

[Anants]

As far as i had discussion with my former Indian team, maybe Noida and Guragang have good road.condition to make first robotaxi application in Inida.

Ahh dont worry. There are already companies working on autonomous driving even on rural road conditions. One of them is in initial stages of testing its own FSD models. And no it does not have any Chinese connection afaik.

View: https://youtu.be/cdJ1ETCC6fY?si=6-Z6dFa-t3TpbpzG

View: https://youtu.be/tizgwWRpKwM?si=8l_xWUuuqxEJwL_w

 

[srev2004]

Here is a great talk that explains it further:


View: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-reality-check-for-the-self-driving-enthusiast/id1633313478?i=1000569052425