Chit Chat

[Azaad]

1:- plz explain...how can a genral/OBC poor, when their creamy layer income is below 800000 yearly or 66000 monthly income. which poor is earning that money. so its basically include all lower middle class also in it. which is wrong for poor genral.
2:- i didnt said OBC is genral...but i said OBC is created out of genral, due to economy reason. they r same like EWS. minus brahman u can say.
3:- yes u r not a women...but all ur family female get benefitted due to 33% women reservation in uttarakhand. even ur children also.
4:- bro...state reservation applied in all. if u preparing for state jobs or any government/private college. every state reserve seats nd jobs for its state people. including that state all genral.
now...if we look at endresult of reservation, i mean government jobs. less than 1% in all 4 caste (genral, obc, sc ,st) get those government jobs. that mean 99% population didnt get any government jobs. so it doest mean its not aviable for u. u obviously didnt get that due to huge population of genral. same case with others.

I think you need to frame your arguments better. Are you making a case for reservations for SC/ST in all walks of life & then justifying it in the name of reservations for general classes or am I missing something here ?

OBC reservations for education & government services thru the Mandal Commission was from the general class but the reasons they were carved out was precisely because it was felt the upper castes were benefiting the most from the open seats which is to say unreserved seats which as you rightly pointed out didn't extend beyond 20% or thereabouts .

These reservations were weaponised politically which is how it is for any reservations nowadays & which is to say that parties like the Congress & the BJP or even the communists who didn't exactly favour this move couldn't be seen opposing it. Another reason it was introduced was coz the person who introduced it - VP Singh wanted to carve out his own constituency & support base , besides blunting the effect of the SRJB movement for the temple thus denting BJP's support base by dividing it .

The rest of your arguments don't cut it because women's reservation isn't a pan India phenomenon except for panchayat elections & with the passage of the women's reservation bill should in theory be extended to legislatures. I'm unaware if women's reservation has been extended to education & jobs in states . In any case even if it is the case it's restricted to certain states & not a pan Indian phenomenon . Having said that gender related reservations in government jobs & education are not recognised by the constitution so I'm not really sure what is it you're referring to .

EWS is open to all categories not just the general class or upper castes. Technically you can be a Muslim or Christian & can still avail of the EWS quota what to speak of being an OBC or SC or ST to avail of the same quota provided you meet their criteria.

Sports & Handicapped category reservations are extremely limited & are open to all religions & castes. In any case these reservations are extremely limited as far as the intake goes as not every educational institution or even government body offers such quotas. Quotas under the handicapped category while all pervasive in educational ( I'm assuming it's the case ) as well as governments once again are open to all & the intake is extremely limited.

Hence with all these issues being cleared , please now state your case or if you require clarifications. Btw my ex boss & dear friend is from Pithoragarh whose ancestral village I've been to a decade ago for his brother's marriage and is in Chamoli district . It's some 10-20 kms distance from Tibet border & he's a Sahi - GC. So I really don't know what you're talking about when you're claiming only STs inhabit those parts.

 

[crazywithmath]

I didn't say it in anger. Anger typically disappears in a few minutes. I still hold the same view.

An anti-merit country deserves balkanization. It'll happen even if I don't want it. Social justice will always lose to Merit. Participation trophy culture will always lose to merit.

USA is spying on Indian embassy in Washington and is leaking intel to it's newspapers

'USA' does not need to spy anywhere - they can simply lie. This is not a public trial, they do not have jurisdiction over maldives. They get to plant whatever the heck they want to - against countries that pisses them off, in their own media.

These are the warning shots cautioning the GoI against attempting a regime change in kangluland. They tried a patch-up with Jaishankar last week - which, evidently, did not work out.

Isn't this something you have always wanted? Didn't you want the GoI to 'grow a pair'? And topple kanglu yunus? So why are you upset?

WaPo has planted yet another hithob today, btw. This time targetting R&AW operations in pakiland.

Quoted xitter user is a chong plant - his words carry negative weight.

 

[sameer]

I didn't say it in anger. Anger typically disappears in a few minutes. I still hold the same view.

An anti-merit country deserves balkanization. It'll happen even if I don't want it. Social justice will always lose to Merit. Participation trophy culture will always lose to merit.

USA is spying on Indian embassy in Washington and is leaking intel to it's newspapers like WashingtonPost. Do you understand how little respect USA has for India to do it openly?

They are literally telling India to go and fuck off. Had India had a spine, Indian media would be covering this 24x7 but Indian media is fully subverted by America.


View: https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1873934609765065173

You do realize that balkanization will be 10x worse that where we are right now. Look at Syria or any of the poorer(non GCC) middle eastern or African nations, all of them are getting torn apart by various foreign powers. UC's will also bear the brunt in any hypothetical balkanization.

At a civilizational level it would be like going back to 1500's for us. Forget about temple reclamation or anything for the next 1000 + years.

As for Yankee interference, Leave alone India, Georgia and Hungary, much richer European countries are getting thoroughly manhandled by the EU and the Yanks. Also We don't know if the above story is real or some deep state plant.

India is much much poorer nation, I mean the majority of our population literally got toilets and piped water in this decade. Expecting that we will somehow stand up to the Yanks who have like 200+ year head start in nation building + a land blessed with near unlimited resources is foolhardy. As the economy grows and the country becomes richer, we will become better in this regard and have more legs to stand up.

Note that my reply is only for your point about balkanization. I'm not disputing your point about reservation. As a UC(brahmin) myself I have deep dislike for all types of reservation(including the EWS reservaton).

But just because we are a non merit based society doesn't mean we have to or will balkanize or split up.

 

[Vinash]

You do realize that balkanization will be 10x worse that where we are right now. Look at Syria or any of the poorer(non GCC) middle eastern or African nations, all of them are getting torn apart by various foreign powers. UC's will also bear the brunt in any hypothetical balkanization.

At a civilizational level it would be like going back to 1500's for us. Forget about temple reclamation or anything for the next 1000 + years.

As for Yankee interference, Leave alone India, Georgia and Hungary, much richer European countries are getting thoroughly manhandled by the EU and the Yanks. Also We don't know if the above story is real or some deep state plant.

India is much much poorer nation, I mean the majority of our population literally got toilets and piped water in this decade. Expecting that we will somehow stand up to the Yanks who have like 200+ year head start in nation building + a land blessed with near unlimited resources is foolhardy. As the economy grows and the country becomes richer, we will become better in this regard and have more legs to stand up.

Note that my reply is only for your point about balkanization. I'm not disputing your point about reservation. As a UC(brahmin) myself I have deep dislike for all types of reservation(including the EWS reservaton).

But just because we are a non merit based society doesn't mean we have to or will balkanize or split up.

Yeah, I'd prefer India to be a superpower that can go toe to toe with USA and China. I'd also like to sprout wings and fly.

What I want doesn't matter.

I stand by my opinion that if India continues down the current path, it'll be balkanized.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Relax it may seem that on the surface level we had too many fractures, we survived worse times. Heck we survived Great Satan bringing it's Carrier Battle Group. Our foundation is firm but the building blocks are shallow. Hence, we notice such noise. Despite Leftists or Regional Kangers nonsense there is something greater unifying aspect.

Note that Our Country's Diversity/Divisiveness has both Positive and Negative advantage regarding the fractures. The fractures are diverse enough that they themselves can't unify. There is too much difference between a UP Dalit and Andhra Dalit or a TN Dalit.

Despite Central Government lackadaisical attitude and "apparent" unorganized suppression of fringe elements, the foundation is very strong and infact it is increasing. Digital Age makes infusion of "Chaos" stronger, but government grip even 10x stronger.

 

[Vinash]

'USA' does not need to spy anywhere - they can simply lie. This is not a public trial, they do not have jurisdiction over maldives. They get to plant whatever the heck they want to - against countries that pisses them off, in their own media.

These are the warning shots cautioning the GoI against attempting a regime change in kangluland. They tried a patch-up with Jaishankar last week - which, evidently, did not work out.

Isn't this something you have always wanted? Didn't you want the GoI to 'grow a pair'? And topple kanglu yunus? So why are you upset?

WaPo has planted yet another hithob today, btw. This time targetting R&AW operations in pakiland.

Quoted xitter user is a chong plant - his words carry negative weight.

You are underestimating the spying capabilities of USA.

F@ckers have backdoors even for electronic hardware. Indian Intel community should be shit scared and start developing own hardware and software at least for Military and Gov. Then again, our own military couldn't even develop a distro based on linux and lied about it to a General for years.

Sitting ducks.

 

[Vinash]

Americans have put backdoors on hardware and are listening to Indian embassies while our military babus can't even get a linux operating system done and lie about it to their superiors.

Sitting ducks. I'm not blackpilling. If anything, I'm playing down just how much our country's security apparatus and communication is under the mercy of USA.

Indians should be horrified by this.


View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1843913652682010784

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

I think you need to frame your arguments better. Are you making a case for reservations for SC/ST in all walks of life & then justifying it in the name of reservations for general classes or am I missing something here ?

OBC reservations for education & government services thru the Mandal Commission was from the general class but the reasons they were carved out was precisely because it was felt the upper castes were benefiting the most from the open seats which is to say unreserved seats which as you rightly pointed out didn't extend beyond 20% or thereabouts .

These reservations were weaponised politically which is how it is for any reservations nowadays & which is to say that parties like the Congress & the BJP or even the communists who didn't exactly favour this move couldn't be seen opposing it. Another reason it was introduced was coz the person who introduced it - VP Singh wanted to carve out his own constituency & support base , besides blunting the effect of the SRJB movement for the temple thus denting BJP's support base by dividing it .

The rest of your arguments don't cut it because women's reservation isn't a pan India phenomenon except for panchayat elections & with the passage of the women's reservation bill should in theory be extended to legislatures. I'm unaware if women's reservation has been extended to education & jobs in states . In any case even if it is the case it's restricted to certain states & not a pan Indian phenomenon . Having said that gender related reservations in government jobs & education are not recognised by the constitution so I'm not really sure what is it you're referring to .

EWS is open to all categories not just the general class or upper castes. Technically you can be a Muslim or Christian & can still avail of the EWS quota what to speak of being an OBC or SC or ST to avail of the same quota provided you meet their criteria.

Sports & Handicapped category reservations are extremely limited & are open to all religions & castes. In any case these reservations are extremely limited as far as the intake goes as not every educational institution or even government body offers such quotas. Quotas under the handicapped category while all pervasive in educational ( I'm assuming it's the case ) as well as governments once again are open to all & the intake is extremely limited.

Hence with all these issues being cleared , please now state your case or if you require clarifications. Btw my ex boss & dear friend is from Pithoragarh whose ancestral village I've been to a decade ago for his brother's marriage and is in Chamoli district . It's some 10-20 kms distance from Tibet border & he's a Sahi - GC. So I really don't know what you're talking about when you're claiming only STs inhabit those parts.

i cant repeat myself again nd again...main point is any type of reservation means, reserving college seats nd government jobs to a group. my simple saying is if u hv problem with SC/ST reservation...than others hv also different kind of reservation. u can give many excuses for that. if u r reservation critic, than u should be against all type of reservation. but mostly i seen reservation critics only fingering toward SC/ST.
chamoli district hv many villages...which village u r talking about. coz it hv also some ST villages.

now all tribes defined in arricle 342...nd its state responsibility to declare a area ST area, mostly they happened deep forest or high himalayan border areas (in uttarakhand case).

https://socialwelfare.vikaspedia.in/viewcontent/social-welfare/scheduled-tribes-welfare/scheduled-tribes-in-india?lgn=en

if ur friend full fill nd satisfied uttarakhand government, declare their place also a ST area. i mean many genrals r including themself in ST now.
this is small video of UKSSSC exams...just skip in last part of video, where ST selected people name mentions....they hv negi, chauhan, rana etc genral sirname.

View: https://youtu.be/ouIUljC9wk4?si=guQC0Suv91ip9UOx
u can show any uttarakhand state government job selected names...u will find genral sirname people in ST also. so i think ur frnd should also apply for ST, like others. i mean through legal methods. by d way, no tribes use negi, chauhan, rana etc sirname. so dont think them tribes, adopting others sirname.

 

[Azaad]

i cant repeat myself again nd again...main point is any type of reservation means, reserving college seats nd government jobs to a group. my simple saying is if u hv problem with SC/ST reservation...than others hv also different kind of reservation. u can give many excuses for that. if u r reservation critic, than u should be against all type of reservation. but mostly i seen reservation critics only fingering toward SC/ST.

I've just pointed out to you there's no SPECIFIC reservation for the upper castes. All such reservations you're referring to is for the general classes including all religions & the OBC , SC & ST can also avail of it if they meet the criteria.

In principle I'm of the opinion reservations should be for the deserving & there should be a cast iron sunset clause which is to say it must be time bound with a creamy layer exclusion.

In any case I'm not for reservations beyond 1/3rd of the total seats.

chamoli district hv many villages...which village u r talking about. coz it hv also some ST villages.
View attachment 20297

I don't remember the name of the village per se but it's around 20 kms from the Tibetan border. The reason I say so is we went on horse back for 10 kms to the border where the only reason we were permitted there was because this colleague's cousins & other relatives were in the ITBP & IA.

now all tribes defined in arricle 342...nd its state responsibility to declare a area ST area, mostly they happened deep forest or high himalayan border areas (in uttarakhand case).

https://socialwelfare.vikaspedia.in/viewcontent/social-welfare/scheduled-tribes-welfare/scheduled-tribes-in-india?lgn=en

if ur friend full fill nd satisfied uttarakhand government, declare their place also a ST area. i mean many genrals r including themself in ST now.
this is small video of UKSSSC exams...just skip in last part of video, where ST selected people name mentions....they hv negi, chauhan, rana etc genral sirname.

View: https://youtu.be/ouIUljC9wk4?si=guQC0Suv91ip9UOx
u can show any state government job selected names...u will find genral sirname people in ST also. so i think ur frnd should also apply for ST, like others.

If upper castes are actually claiming ST status then it's a mockery of the entire process. What more can one say of this phenomenon ?

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

I've just pointed out to you there's no SPECIFIC reservation for the upper castes. All such reservations you're referring to is for the general classes including all religions & the OBC , SC & ST can also avail of it if they meet the criteria.

In principle I'm of the opinion reservations should be for the deserving & there should be a cast iron sunset clause which is to say it must be time bound with a creamy layer exclusion.

In any case I'm not for reservations beyond 1/3rd of the total seats.

I don't remember the name of the village per se but it's around 20 kms from the Tibetan border. The reason I say so is we went on horse back for 10 kms to the border where the only reason we were permitted there was because this colleague's cousins & other relatives were in the ITBP & IA.


If upper castes are actually claiming ST status then it's a mockery of the entire process. What more can one say of this phenomenon ?

thats why i also used " aviable also for genral" in my all previous comments earlier. when i m mentioning different kind of reservation.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

I've just pointed out to you there's no SPECIFIC reservation for the upper castes. All such reservations you're referring to is for the general classes including all religions & the OBC , SC & ST can also avail of it if they meet the criteria.

In principle I'm of the opinion reservations should be for the deserving & there should be a cast iron sunset clause which is to say it must be time bound with a creamy layer exclusion.

In any case I'm not for reservations beyond 1/3rd of the total seats.

I don't remember the name of the village per se but it's around 20 kms from the Tibetan border. The reason I say so is we went on horse back for 10 kms to the border where the only reason we were permitted there was because this colleague's cousins & other relatives were in the ITBP & IA.


If upper castes are actually claiming ST status then it's a mockery of the entire process. What more can one say of this phenomenon ?

look ST didnt come in any caste....if they r hindu like us:-
1:- many of us dont consider ourself in any caste. coz we live solely nd did all 4 caste works.
2:- we hv historical business with tibbetan from thousand years. so some consider us in vaishya.
3:- some call us striyas. coz according to mahabhart himalayan areas people known as kirati people. which hv their own kingdom. some also take ancestory from paksiraaj garur nd his 1000 of snake brothers story. out of which 2 snakes brother dont involve in fighting with garur. so they went to himalayas. so some joins themself from there. nd its believed, we were first people who started naag pooja. than this spread in whole india.
4:- there is also a story...about a kashi brahman visited in our areas nd married a girl. from there some people thinks our one ancestors was brahman also.
5:- many consider us shudras also...coz we r tribe.
so basically we hv no problem if any higher or lower caste getting government seats in ST. far better than christians in north east nd middle india. nd their number (39%) tells us they also living near ST areas. thats why tgeir number is like other ST. mostly that areas people hv less aviability of quality education..neither they motivated by their parents for serious education etc. nd they also face like problems we face in remote areas.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Here's my vision

1.1 Remove every single caste/religion/minority based reservations from all the educational institutions.
1.2 Have a small reservation for specially abled people because even God has betrayed them.
1.3 And as for "reservation" just have one comprehensive, income based "reservation system" like if your income is X, the fee of this course in this college is Y then government would provide you (Y-X)=Z. Have strict measures to prevent anyone from gaming the system by things like forging fake BPL documents.
1.4 Drastically increase the number of education institutions and their quality. Definitely we need good UG and PG colleges but we need exponentially better education system for 1-12th, especially in the hinterlands.
1.5 I don't think most of the kids in Class 1 indulges in Brahmin - Rajput - Chamar bs, so start "indoctrinating" them from that stage only with good quality education and worldview by having good quality free, sarkaari skool. Stop the discrimination at this stage only
1.6 If this works well then when he or she would come out of this system in 12th then they'd have had so much of good education that they can compete easily with everyone based on just their merit without needing any caste based reservation. "Mohan Paswan" who enrolled in class 1 is now just a student who got 87% in CBSE 12th; there's no sign of caste left.
1.7 And in case someone is meritorious but not financially capable then we already have our income based reservation system in place. So doesn't matter if you're a bhutiya or a santhal or a sandilya brahmin...if you're meritorious and can't pay the fee then government would help.
1.8 And if you're not meritorious then why the hell are you not meritorious? When there was free, indiscriminate education from 1-12th with sufficient capacity for every child then still how did you lag!?
1.9 Absolutely no reservations in companies. Maybe a small percentage for veterans or agniveer to encourage people to join military but that's it. Everything on merit.
1.10 Deal with all the caste issues of say a tribe in Chattisgarh by improving infrastructure there, not by reserving seats for them in a college in Bangalore.
1.# Now this one's a bonus, when you'd implement this then multitudes of people would riot, arson, damage public properties for no concrete reasons...simply arrest them, withdraw every single government support (even Aadhar card) and keep them in for few years.

Or

2 We can do this. If the next say CM is OBC then OBC quota increased to 40%. If the one after is SC then now SC quota becomes 40%. And then the CM is ST so now ST is 40%.

So tell me, which one @vin pahadi (kumauni)

 

[Gurmeet]

I've just pointed out to you there's no SPECIFIC reservation for the upper castes. All such reservations you're referring to is for the general classes including all religions & the OBC , SC & ST can also avail of it if they meet the criteria.

In principle I'm of the opinion reservations should be for the deserving & there should be a cast iron sunset clause which is to say it must be time bound with a creamy layer exclusion.

In any case I'm not for reservations beyond 1/3rd of the total seats.

I don't remember the name of the village per se but it's around 20 kms from the Tibetan border. The reason I say so is we went on horse back for 10 kms to the border where the only reason we were permitted there was because this colleague's cousins & other relatives were in the ITBP & IA.


If upper castes are actually claiming ST status then it's a mockery of the entire process. What more can one say of this phenomenon ?

Sometime the caste which in general in one state gets reduced to st in another.The example of negi caste is well documented it becomes st in himanchal and gen in uttrakhand

 

[Vinod Patter]

There should be no reservation for any one in India except for "Divyang". Reservation should be scrapped if this country want "Vishwaguru" status. Atleast half of Doctors, IAS,IPS etc don't deserve to be in that position.

 

[Anants]

There should be no reservation for any one in India except for "Divyang". Reservation should be scrapped if this country want "Vishwaguru" status. Atleast half of Doctors, IAS,IPS etc don't deserve to be in that position.

Reservation is there in US too called as Afirmative action. But its not as much as of a political weapon in India. ST and SC(excluding families who are in creamy layer for past two generations) should have reservation. All OBC reservation should be simply converted into big reservation for financially backward. I am not saying this should happen immediately but down the line we make slow progress towards this.

But make no religion based reservation is ever permitted.

 

[Vinash]

How is this even logistically possible?

Muslims were 24% in 1947. Tell me again, what is the % of UC H's in India?

Where there is a will, there is a way. If another partition happens due to mullas, in the new country, Bhimtas and LC's will again claim victimhood and leech off UC H's.

I know the possibilities are slim but UC H's should organise as a group irrespective of whether partition happens or not.

 

[Nutcracker]

Muslims were 24% in 1947. Tell me again, what is the % of UC H's in India?

Where there is a will, there is a way. If another partition happens due to mullas, in the new country, Bhimtas and LC's will again claim victimhood and leech off UC H's.

I know the possibilities are slim but UC H's should organise as a group irrespective of whether partition happens or not.

The World must know the pain.

 

[haldilal]

Happy new year chaps.

happy new year

Happy new Year bhailog

Ya'll Nibbiars there's still 2 months for new year if you are following solar calender and 3 months for lunar calender.

 

[Vinod Patter]

Muslims were 24% in 1947. Tell me again, what is the % of UC H's in India?

Where there is a will, there is a way. If another partition happens due to mullas, in the new country, Bhimtas and LC's will again claim victimhood and leech off UC H's.

I know the possibilities are slim but UC H's should organise as a group irrespective of whether partition happens or not.

The most disgusting fact about Bhimtas is that they objectify other caste women.

 

[SKC]

Khatarnak qutiya hai bhai ye. No wonder such people need certificate in evey step of life to be able to outcompete others living in the same area and possibly in worse economic conditions but are not certificate-dharis

What can we do here!!

He was justifying lowering of selection criteria in Police force induction for SC/ST!! He was ok with lowering height requirement to crazy low ~152-155 cm for SC/ST!

I decided not to engage with him any further after that.