CI/CT Operations

Chandra said:
Maybe look at this chart & figure out which of these Ministries should be stripped of their funds & diverted towards defence?
View attachment 7045
I am sure there are threads on topics spanning across all these Ministries. And people whining, on how more money should be spent on those areas as well.

Money is the solution to all our problems. Sadly it is available in finite amount.

When it comes to capital utilitarian.

The Military can't go on a spending spree if they have excess funds or even repurpose unused funds on it's own. It has to be authorised by the CGDA (controller general of defence accounts).

And for that to happen the entire process has to go through the open tender route ie issuing of RFI and so on. Which generally takes more than an year.

Generally most of the time, the only reason for funds not being utilised by the ministries is delay in supply of existing orders in which case the funds get locked & returned to MoF at the end of the financial year.
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Money is not the issue if spent efficiently
I get the fact that money is reserved for a particular acquisition and delay in supply or supply chain issue causes blockage of funds but those can be diverted
Just like we did in 2022-23 when money was diverted to other acquisitions as we couldn't pay Russians as they halted supply due to war
It was turning point in our acquisition history
Efficient spending can give wonderful results
 
jaijaganath said:
Money is not the issue if spent efficiently
I get the fact that money is reserved for a particular acquisition and delay in supply or supply chain issue causes blockage of funds but those can be diverted
Just like we did in 2022-23 when money was diverted to other acquisitions as we couldn't pay Russians as they halted supply due to war
It was turning point in our acquisition history
Efficient spending can give wonderful results
Click to expand...
Financial dealings face a lot of bureaucratic redtapism in Gov. Departments.

Once the sanction order is passed. The funds in the Departmental account gets locked until the order is supplied. It cannot be repurposed until the deadline for the order is passed or they get written response from supplier about a possible delay leading to cancellation.

In case of regular purchases. The system automatically selects the L1 bidder. If any purchase other than the L1 has to be done. It has to go through a hectic approval process from someone equivalent to a Commissioner. (The person can face show cause or criminal investigation in case of favouritism)

So People generally stick to L1 now. (Supposedly there was a time before 2014 when favouritism played a big role in these cases)

This is the general process for regular purchases amounting to maybe a couple of crores in total in each Unit.

But even with all these checks in place we could have still be able to make world class equipments available to our soldiers through standardization of supplies.

Maybe standardise the former instead of the latter.
1000036127.jpg
I really like the Bullet proof vests used by the Indonesian military.
1000036128.jpg

But are we ready for the exponential increase in expenditure?

Maybe we are ! Considering we dump millions on foreign equipments. But then again it depends on the spending power of the Officer in charge.

Generally PPE doesn't make it to the top priority list & so the purchase has to happen through the automatic route which leads to such disappointing outcome.

Standardisation is the only way forward.
 
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Chandra said:
Financial dealings face a lot of bureaucratic redtapism in Gov. Departments.

Once the sanction order is passed. The funds in the Departmental account gets locked until the order is supplied. It cannot be repurposed until the deadline for the order is passed or they get written response from supplier about a possible delay leading to cancellation.

In case of regular purchases. The system automatically selects the L1 bidder. If any purchase other than the L1 has to be done. It has to go through a hectic approval process from someone equivalent to a Commissioner. (The person can face show cause or criminal investigation in case of favouritism)

So People generally stick to L1 now. (Supposedly there was a time before 2014 when favouritism played a big role in these cases)

This is the general process for regular purchases amounting to maybe a couple of crores in total in each Unit.

But even with all these checks in place we could have still be able to make world class equipments available to our soldiers through standardization of supplies.

Maybe standardise the former instead of the latter.
View attachment 7065
I really like the Bullet proof vests used by the Indonesian military.
View attachment 7066

But are we ready for the exponential increase in expenditure?

Maybe we are ! Considering we dump millions on foreign equipments. But then again it depends on the spending power of the Officer in charge.

Generally PPE doesn't make it to the top priority list & so the purchase has to happen through the automatic route which leads to such disappointing outcome.

Standardisation is the only way forward.
Click to expand...
Yes for such financial diversion need direction from top most babus
Big ticket purchases are mess and govt's repeated policy changes hav not brought drastic results though be it import or screwdriver or indigenous
Tbh L1 system is very much discouraging for industry
Coming to ppe and standardization
The pic u posted belongs to kopassus if I remember correctly it's old ig by 8 years now kopassus have adopted pc in mass and way more advanced than para sf
Their infantry usually prefer molle based vests but few specialized units such as their airborne ones use these armour gaurd vests
My point is they are very realistic with their requirements
In our case u definitely remember smpp bpj that was showcased as finsas is crap no sane person will wear it during war forget about RR or ghataks
When such things will be inducted and will not be accepted then personnel will switch to different sources this leading to de-standardization
It's not like smpp doesn't have a modular product but this is what our high level officers choose after deliberate discussions and trails
Nothing can be done in such situation
Effective procurement is necessary and it doesn't related with money
U can buy effectively with the same amount
I am not saying give pc to every infantry person but modular vests exists
Bcoz after few years when they will get complains and they will have to go for another round of procurement
 
FalconSlayers said:
1 CRPF Inspector martyred
2 injured

It was an ambush
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Mlechhas escaped

Another mother lost her son, another sister lost her brother on Rakshabandhan.

Pray for his family, may Prabhu ease their pain:pray:.
 
lexCommando said:
Terrorist firing openly in udhampur, killing soldiers and escaping without any injury. This is a slap on the face of 4 and 9.. they are doing all this in their home
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Aren't 4 and 9 or any SF unit in IA more like a reactionary/point force! More like a QRF or SWAT team used to tackle and dispose a situation...I wonder how will they be able to prevent an ambush when pakis keep churning out terrorists which is the responsibility of intel agencies in the first place
 
Zoid Raptor said:
Aren't 4 and 9 or any SF unit in IA more like a reactionary/point force! More like a QRF or SWAT team used to tackle and dispose a situation
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No 4 and 9 are probably the most SF unit among Indian Indian SF. They are made for special operations including conventional, unconventional warfare and counter terrorism. They are not to be used as an QRF..
Zoid Raptor said:
I wonder how will they be able to prevent an ambush when pakis keep churning out terrorists which is the responsibility of intel agencies in the first place
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Military intelligence should have a whole network over that place and using SF to kill terrorist before they even plans something. Hunting is in their unit's blood... they used to be in forests for days during 2000s that's how they used to kill the most Herdcore terrorist. By seeking and hunting them. Regardless of anything, having soldiers killed in the AOC of Northern command and your most elite unit is very shameful
 
Zoid Raptor said:
This is no different to what PA is facing on their western border. Maybe we should conduct another well planned cross border strike on these launchpads and training camps which are in the immediate vicinity of LoC
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Jo ghuse hue hai pehle unhe to nipta lo bhai, election na ho gaye bawal ho gaya. Ghar ke ander ki to intel milti nai pojk mein kya ukhaad logey?
 
Zoid Raptor said:
This is no different to what PA is facing on their western border. Maybe we should conduct another well planned cross border strike on these launchpads and training camps which are in the immediate vicinity of LoC
Click to expand...

their security forces casualty is 10 times ours .

people here enjoy when baloch rebel kills pakistanis by dozens . if we are responsible they r gonna try to fuck us back .

:cmegusta: not complaining , we should fund them more , dont care about casualties here .
 
lexCommando said:
Terrorist firing openly in udhampur, killing soldiers and escaping without any injury. This is a slap on the face of 4 and 9.. they are doing all this in their home
Click to expand...
Zoid Raptor said:
Aren't 4 and 9 or any SF unit in IA more like a reactionary/point force! More like a QRF or SWAT team used to tackle and dispose a situation...I wonder how will they be able to prevent an ambush when pakis keep churning out terrorists which is the responsibility of intel agencies in the first place
Click to expand...
Yes they are mostly used as a reactionary QRF and overburndened with work in and beyond the domain of CI operations. 4 isn't even normally deployed here, they mostly handle situations in Kashmir Valley.
 
Zoid Raptor said:
This is no different to what PA is facing on their western border. Maybe we should conduct another well planned cross border strike on these launchpads and training camps which are in the immediate vicinity of LoC
Click to expand...
Most probably after Balakot They are training Pighadis in the hinterland of porkjab or NWFP and then sending them towards the Jammu border. Gobhiji also might've seen the unpreparedness of SOPs within IAF, otherwise by now we might've tested some precision munitions 50KM deep inside porky territory.
GOI can also be avoiding to create situation where Porky estb comes out as saviour and messiah of disgruntled Porky awam against aggressive India.
 
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