CI/CT Operations

[lexCommando]

Someone was claiming Gulmarg encounter had an RPG attack?

Anyone remembers who?

Coz i think i just found a video of it on Twitter.

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[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

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Dmed

 

[mist_consecutive]

View: https://x.com/greaterkashmir/status/1855815672196104531?s=46

Possibly the reason of yesterday’s Zabarwan Srinagar encounter terrorists escaping. 2 civilian trekkers got caught in the crossfire and Army/Police had to disengage to rescue them.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Someone was claiming Gulmarg encounter had an RPG attack?

Anyone remembers who?

Coz i think i just found a video of it on Twitter.

View: https://x.com/osintjk/status/1854036792191680721?s=46

The RPG is possibly M72 LAW which is probably procured from US inventory from Afghanistan or perhaps supplied directly by US/Pakistan.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

View: https://x.com/osintjk/status/1854036792191680721?s=46

The RPG is possibly M72 LAW which is probably procured from US inventory from Afghanistan or perhaps supplied directly by US/Pakistan.

View attachment 14936

Knew it when it was posted but didnt post it.

Indeed, RPG was used.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

So terrorists escaped from both encounters?

 

[Ayan Barat]

AquaBois are there..........

LandBois and AeroBois are there..........

BuildingBois are there too..........

Heck even HorseBois are there too..........


So my simple question is why so much hate for our CoastalBois!?
What have they done to face this kind of humiliating discrimination!?
Adopted the Amogh Carbine!? That's it? That's there only crime!?
I want to ask the adminstration why are they not including ICG-VBSS in Kashmir CI/CT Ops?
#JusticeForCoastalBois

 

[Yuyutsu]

So terrorists escaped from both encounters?

and 3 KIA on our side??

 

[mist_consecutive]

So terrorists escaped from both encounters?

Terrorists escaped from the Srinagar encounter.

The other one in Kishtwar was an ambush as far as I know so we escaped from the terrorists.

 

[mist_consecutive]

View: https://x.com/buntymahajan6/status/1855865863548617167

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Terrorists escaped from the Srinagar encounter.

The other one in Kishtwar was an ambush as far as I know so we escaped from the terrorists.

We escaped??

4 SF commandos got hit!

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

View: https://x.com/buntymahajan6/status/1855865863548617167

Suns up bums out

Suns down bums down.

Indian Army Moto.

 

[Ayan Barat]

It's going to be a hear-me-out post, so read at your own risk
---------------------------------------​

*Udhampur Air Base has No. 153 Helicopter Unit with Mi-17s
*Keep two Mi-17s ready with atleast one always being on Quick Reaction Alert
*Mi-17s are perfect for this as they can carry good amount of people together with heavy loads
*Have 3x six-man teams of your favourite Tier-1 operators.
*Together with 2x snipers (SAKO) and 2x gunners (MAG)
*Add one rocket pod; in case of cover or empty building it'll come handy.
*Another advantage of Mi-17; drop tanks. It'll greatly increase your on station time
*As soon as there's confirmation of hostile activities, you take-off. If weather is not that bad then you'd be anywhere in less than half an hour. Way faster than ground forces and a proper CASO setup
*You have powerful IRs and thermals on the heli so jungle, foliage or rough terrain shouldn't be any advantage for the terrorists. But more importantly you've altitude on your side, you'll get unmatched surveillance capabilities.
*Given the usual loadout of 5.56/7.62 with terrorist the helicopter would be way out of any engagement range.
*But the door gunners and snipers could easily engage them with 338LM or even 7.62x51mm. You also have rockets which can be used if there's no chance of collateral damage.
*If there's absolutely no other option then up to 18 soldiers can fast rope down to engage them or track them on foot.

A reference for what I'm trying to say

-----------------------​

Now tell me what all will be the problems in this idea.
One that I'm already aware of is that this whole scheme would lose all its advantages in an urban built-up area with possibilities of hostage.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

It's going to be a hear-me-out post, so read at your own risk
---------------------------------------​

*Udhampur Air Base has No. 153 Helicopter Unit with Mi-17s
*Keep two Mi-17s ready with atleast one always being on Quick Reaction Alert
*Mi-17s are perfect for this as they can carry good amount of people together with heavy loads
*Have 3x six-man teams of your favourite Tier-1 operators.
*Together with 2x snipers (SAKO) and 2x gunners (MAG)
*Add one rocket pod; in case of cover or empty building it'll come handy.
*Another advantage of Mi-17; drop tanks. It'll greatly increase your on station time
*As soon as there's confirmation of hostile activities, you take-off. If weather is not that bad then you'd be anywhere in less than half an hour. Way faster than ground forces and a proper CASO setup
*You have powerful IRs and thermals on the heli so jungle, foliage or rough terrain shouldn't be any advantage for the terrorists. But more importantly you've altitude on your side, you'll get unmatched surveillance capabilities.
*Given the usual loadout of 5.56/7.62 with terrorist the helicopter would be way out of any engagement range.
*But the door gunners and snipers could easily engage them with 338LM or even 7.62x51mm. You also have rockets which can be used if there's no chance of collateral damage.
*If there's absolutely no other option then up to 18 soldiers can fast rope down to engage them or track them on foot.

A reference for what I'm trying to say
View attachment 14961

-----------------------​

Now tell me what all will be the problems in this idea.
One that I'm already aware of is that this whole scheme would lose all its advantages in an urban built-up area with possibilities of hostage.

Too high terrain for manoeuvring …yesterday onky terrorists shot a the helicopter evacuating casualties..they could easily take of this heli.

 

[mist_consecutive]

It's going to be a hear-me-out post, so read at your own risk
---------------------------------------​

*Udhampur Air Base has No. 153 Helicopter Unit with Mi-17s
*Keep two Mi-17s ready with atleast one always being on Quick Reaction Alert
*Mi-17s are perfect for this as they can carry good amount of people together with heavy loads
*Have 3x six-man teams of your favourite Tier-1 operators.
*Together with 2x snipers (SAKO) and 2x gunners (MAG)
*Add one rocket pod; in case of cover or empty building it'll come handy.
*Another advantage of Mi-17; drop tanks. It'll greatly increase your on station time
*As soon as there's confirmation of hostile activities, you take-off. If weather is not that bad then you'd be anywhere in less than half an hour. Way faster than ground forces and a proper CASO setup
*You have powerful IRs and thermals on the heli so jungle, foliage or rough terrain shouldn't be any advantage for the terrorists. But more importantly you've altitude on your side, you'll get unmatched surveillance capabilities.
*Given the usual loadout of 5.56/7.62 with terrorist the helicopter would be way out of any engagement range.
*But the door gunners and snipers could easily engage them with 338LM or even 7.62x51mm. You also have rockets which can be used if there's no chance of collateral damage.
*If there's absolutely no other option then up to 18 soldiers can fast rope down to engage them or track them on foot.

A reference for what I'm trying to say
View attachment 14961

-----------------------​

Now tell me what all will be the problems in this idea.
One that I'm already aware of is that this whole scheme would lose all its advantages in an urban built-up area with possibilities of hostage.

Problems -

• Helicopters are big & loud, you can hear them coming from many kilometers. Tangoes will immediately hide.
  
  
• Hitting anything from air is notoriously difficult. Reason high-rate of fire guns like machine-guns or miniguns are used where you dump a huge amount of rounds in the general area.
  Sniping from air is difficult enough for open areas, but hitting something in dense jungle is almost impossible.
  
  
• Mi-17s have minimal armour, are easily targetted and suffers damage. We have many incidents where CASEVAC sortie in Naxalite belt came under heavy fire and lets just say, it wasn't ideal case.
  
  
• No amount of IR / Thermal can penetrate into rocks & caves of Himalayas.

Best is actually to use UCAVs with SARs which can penetrate into foilage. Give real-time update & feedback to troops and use weapons to take out tangoes if necessary.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Too high terrain for manoeuvring …yesterday onky terrorists shot a the helicopter evacuating casualties..they could easily take of this heli.

Sauce ?

 

[Ayan Barat]

shot a the helicopter evacuating casualties..

Well that's exactly the point...the helicopter was evacuating casualties and was completely unprepared to get shot by at.

And in this case the helicopter is going after them anticipating all the possible ways in which they can be engaged.
And for Mi-17s you already have the option to put an impressive amount of applique armour

As for terrain and maneuvering, this is what humans look like on any decent FLIR from even kilometres away

You can engage them from quite a distance

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Well that's exactly the point...the helicopter was evacuating casualties and was completely unprepared to get shot by at.

And in this case the helicopter is going after them anticipating all the possible ways in which they can be engaged.
And for Mi-17s you already have the option to put an impressive amount of applique armour
View attachment 14965
As for terrain and maneuvering, this is what humans look like on any decent FLIR from even kilometres away
View attachment 14966
You can engage them from quite a distance

There are caves and thick jungles.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Well that's exactly the point...the helicopter was evacuating casualties and was completely unprepared to get shot by at.

And in this case the helicopter is going after them anticipating all the possible ways in which they can be engaged.
And for Mi-17s you already have the option to put an impressive amount of applique armour
View attachment 14965
As for terrain and maneuvering, this is what humans look like on any decent FLIR from even kilometres away
View attachment 14966
You can engage them from quite a distance

Mi-17s have add-on armour around cockpit and other important areas (e.g., fuel tank). It doesn't protect it as good as an attack helicopter, and the performance degrades due to additional weight.

Also you are comparing thermal imagery of open field. Mountains + jungles are a different matter.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Thanks for the replies...this is the kind of to and fro I was expecting

Helicopters are big & loud, you can hear them coming from many kilometers. Tangoes will immediately hide.

Yup, they'll
But then again the whole purpose of having FLIR and everything is to negate the advantages of using cover

Hitting anything from air is notoriously difficult. Reason high-rate of fire guns like machine-guns or miniguns are used where you dump a huge amount of rounds in the general area.
Sniping from air is difficult enough for open areas, but hitting something in dense jungle is almost impossible.

Well the use of high firing guns on helicopters is more to do with the very little engagement window you get flying at 250km/h as compared to accuracy. Definitely accuracy is a issue with Helicopters but then again way more helicopters are currently flying with M2/MAG/M60/PKM than M134 and GShG-7.62.

The RPM of MAG should be enough to compensate for vibrations. Also you can train your snipers, even police SWAT in US prectice engaging moving cars from helicopters.

Mi-17s have minimal armour, are easily targetted and suffers damage. We have many incidents where CASEVAC sortie in Naxalite belt came under heavy fire and lets just say, it wasn't ideal case.

I've covered this point

No amount of IR / Thermal can penetrate into rocks & caves of Himalayas.

Then add a SAR pod on that Mi-17