Germany

ArjunMK1A said:
Both of our guys have decent products with Tata and simply better products with Mahindra.
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If they had a foothold here in the European/German markets, they would be my first choice compared to the options I would have to go for now.
Royal Enfield is slowly creating its own market space.
 
VictorDelta4 said:
If they had a foothold here in the European/German markets, they would be my first choice compared to the options I would have to go for now.
Royal Enfield is slowly creating its own market space.
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RE really improved the quality of their products man. Before 2018 UCE 350 had its charm but everything vibrates and parts get loose. But from 2018 with Interceptor and GT Twins launch slowly they improved their quality and current 350s were reliable with no nonsense loosening of parts. Hero is entering, TVS is entering EU markets soon.

Regarding Cars, Mahindra trying to get into LHD Markets like SA, Aus for now. But they confirmed that in future they will enter into Western European Markets with their Born EV Platform.

On TATA they are still an company with QC problems and poor service experience. Also being led by MBA people does not helping them. Eg. Their new car does not have an Cup holders and instead of them there was Wireless pad. When Journos asked senior head they simply told no car have both of them when Hyundai and other manufacturers are providing them.
 
VictorDelta4 said:
Just EV* And most likely the factory in two southern states and Belgium.
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With the rate at which Chinese are churning out cars, we might see total decimation of German cars in China. German car makers derive lot of their revenue from China. With that gone, I don't think it will be business as usual. Perhaps then EU will step in for a trade war with China, rising tariffs on Chinese cars like USA which has 100% tariffs on Chinese cars.
 
concard said:
With the rate at which Chinese are churning out cars, we might see total decimation of German cars in China. German car makers derive lot of their revenue from China. With that gone, I don't think it will be business as usual. Perhaps then EU will step in for a trade war with China, rising tariffs on Chinese cars like USA which has 100% tariffs on Chinese cars.
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Well Germans thought that Chinese would be perpetually buying their products and they would derive fat profits. Guess they gonna be double cuckolded. Not only would they be gonna losing their market in China, they would also lose in other countries also. Only in their own turf would they have some sort of protection.

Same with the case of France who seem to do Monkey Balancing or "French Interests" thingy because China is buying a lot of French Luxury goods until the same China gonna put a Monkey P*nis in their ass.
 
concard said:
With the rate at which Chinese are churning out cars, we might see total decimation of German cars in China. German car makers derive lot of their revenue from China. With that gone, I don't think it will be business as usual. Perhaps then EU will step in for a trade war with China, rising tariffs on Chinese cars like USA which has 100% tariffs on Chinese cars.
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notice where samir saran gets an applause from german business crowd.
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The India Alternative | Can Germany and Europe Embrace It​


View: https://youtu.be/IblZkYvzLOA
 
VictorDelta4 said:
If they had a foothold here in the European/German markets, they would be my first choice compared to the options I would have to go for now.
Royal Enfield is slowly creating its own market space.
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Can you elaborate more on RE creating space there? How?
 
Aaj Ka Hero said:
Can you elaborate more on RE creating space there? How?
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They are working well with their marketing and show casing their vast array of products while keeping the price significantly affordable compared to other Motorcycles here in that segment.
The dealership numbers have increased and so the motorcycles are readily accessible.
Since getting a drivers license here in Germany costs an arm and a leg, most beginner riders who look for a starter motorcycles with some retro style have RE amongst their top priority.
They are also being promoted for inner city commuting and is competing with brands like Brixton etc.
RE and Yamaha(as far as I know of) are the two brands here who also give a starter discounts to new riders which indirectly also attracts sales.
 
VictorDelta4 said:
Jeez this woman is so fuckin clueless! But this video is so good!
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Indian economy will be ~$10 trillion in next decade & will continue to grow if everything goes well. Germany will have another huge market to cater to & there's no shortage of people who will pay a premium for German engineering . If only Germany could mend it's relationship with Russia & build more nuclear power plants. Germany(EU) cannot fall , there will be no multi-polar world without it !
 
VictorDelta4 said:
Jeez this woman is so fuckin clueless! But this video is so good!
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I disagree. The Indian speaker is mostly whining and seeking validation from the EU the whole time. It doesn’t sound like a global leader, more like someone at a civil rights rally.

India needs to show leadership and vision, not complain incessantly
 
srev2004 said:
I disagree. The Indian speaker is mostly whining and seeking validation from the EU the whole time. It doesn’t sound like a global leader, more like someone at a civil rights rally.

India needs to show leadership and vision, not complain incessantly
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for our own understanding of your world view, post a video of a similar circumstance/setting where someone presenting a case on behalf of self-interest does not look like whining/seeking validation.

just so we don't around in circles after posting your video, ensure you understand who the indian speaker is, his role and his organisation before posting your video.
 
srev2004 said:
I disagree. The Indian speaker is mostly whining and seeking validation from the EU the whole time. It doesn’t sound like a global leader, more like someone at a civil rights rally.

India needs to show leadership and vision, not complain incessantly
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Really ? I thought he was mostly condescending of Europe & Germany in a polite manner apart from haranguing them castigating them & frankly insulting them in sarcastically.
 
ezsasa said:
for our own understanding of your world view, post a video of a similar circumstance/setting where someone presenting a case on behalf of self-interest does not look like whining/seeking validation.

just so we don't around in circles after posting your video, ensure you understand who the indian speaker is, his role and his organisation before posting your video.
Click to expand...
To enhance the Indian panelist’s argument without sacrificing the strength of his salient points, the focus should shift from purely identifying problems to positioning India as a visionary leader that drives comprehensive solutions. Here's how his narrative could have been reframed to highlight India's role as a proactive, solution-oriented partner, offering clear alternatives and pathways forward:

1. Frame the Criticism as a Call to Action
Instead of emphasizing Europe's failings, the panelist could present the criticism as a challenge that India is ready to help solve. By positioning India as a partner capable of filling the gaps in Europe’s global strategy, he can make the conversation constructive and forward-looking.

- Original Point (Problem): "Europe is not betting on India; they are stuck with China."

- Reframed Solution (Vision): "While Europe remains overly dependent on China, India presents a tremendous opportunity for diversification. As the fastest-growing major economy, India is committed to forming resilient, transparent partnerships that enhance Europe's long-term competitiveness. Together, we can reduce the risks associated with over-reliance on any single partner and drive sustainable growth for both regions."

2. Highlight India's Growth as a Global Opportunity
Rather than criticizing Europe’s working habits or failure to recognize India’s growth, the panelist should directly connect India’s economic ascent to mutual benefits. Articulating India's future vision and how Europe can be part of it would make the argument stronger and more persuasive.

- Original Point (Problem): "Europe sleeps for two months a year and is not focused on growth."

- Reframed Solution (Vision): "India is on track to grow from $4 trillion to $10 trillion in the next decade, and this rapid growth offers immense opportunities for European companies. By deepening partnerships with India, European businesses can tap into a burgeoning market while co-developing cutting-edge innovations across sectors like AI, climate tech, and space exploration. India’s commitment to growth, agility, and innovation complements Europe’s strengths, providing an ideal foundation for collaboration."

3. Present India's Strategic Vision for the Global South
Rather than simply pointing out the failings of the global order, the panelist could have elaborated on India’s vision for leading a restructuring of international institutions to better serve emerging economies. This positions India as a thought leader that not only identifies problems but also offers tangible paths forward.

- Original Point (Problem): "The current rules-based international order disadvantages the Global South."

- Reframed Solution (Vision): "India is championing a new era of global governance, where institutions like the G20 take precedence over outdated frameworks like the G7. With India's recent success in leading the G20, we’ve demonstrated the ability to foster consensus on critical issues—from climate action to global finance—across diverse stakeholders. By working with Europe, we can build an inclusive world order that truly reflects the aspirations of the next 7.5 billion people, while maintaining the stability of the global system."

4. Propose Concrete Economic and Diplomatic Partnerships
Rather than just stating that Europe is stuck in a "China addiction," the panelist could articulate specific ways India and Europe can collaborate to build resilient and diversified economic links. He should lay out clear sectors and methods where the partnership could be mutually beneficial.

- Original Point (Problem): "Europe is stubbornly sticking with China and needs to diversify."

- Reframed Solution (Vision): "We understand that Europe has built strong economic ties with China, but there are new opportunities that India can offer in areas such as green energy, digital technology, and advanced manufacturing. By co-investing in these sectors, Europe can reduce its dependency on a single market while benefiting from India’s young, dynamic workforce and growing digital economy. India is ready to be a trusted partner in building a resilient supply chain for critical technologies, where both our economies can thrive."

5. Elevate India’s Role in Addressing Global Challenges
To address Europe’s lack of "critical thinking," the panelist could have offered examples of how India is already taking a leadership role in solving global problems and how a partnership with Europe can amplify this impact. This shifts the tone from critique to collaboration.

- Original Point (Problem): "Europe lacks critical thinking, and they are not leaders in global challenges."

- Reframed Solution (Vision): "India has already shown its commitment to solving global challenges, from spearheading the International Solar Alliance to taking bold actions on climate change and sustainable development. Europe and India, by working together, can lead the world in the development of green technologies, AI governance, and creating economic pathways for emerging economies. This is not just about trade—this is about shaping the future of global governance and solving some of the most pressing issues of our time."

6. Propose Institutional Reforms with a Vision
When calling for reforms to the UN Security Council and other global institutions, the panelist could have outlined how India’s rise offers an opportunity for meaningful institutional evolution. By providing a clear, forward-thinking proposal, he would come across as a reformer, not just a critic.

- Original Point (Problem): "The UN Security Council is outdated and continues a colonial project."

- Reframed Solution (Vision): "India is advocating for a reformed UN Security Council that reflects the realities of the 21st century, where regions like Africa, Latin America, and Asia have a greater say in global decision-making. This isn’t about dismantling institutions, but about evolving them to ensure they serve all of humanity, not just a select few. India’s own experience as a bridge between the Global South and developed economies makes it uniquely positioned to lead this reform effort, in collaboration with European allies."

7. Use Diplomatic Language for Greater Effect
Throughout the conversation, the panelist could have used more diplomatic phrasing to make the solutions more palatable, avoiding overtly confrontational language that might alienate European counterparts. This would preserve the strength of the argument while keeping the tone constructive.

- Original Point (Problem): "It’s your fault that financial flows are concentrated in the West."

- Reframed Solution (Vision): "The global financial architecture needs to evolve to reflect the shifting economic landscape. India and Europe can work together to create more inclusive financial mechanisms that channel investment into emerging markets. By rethinking how capital flows are structured, we can ensure that growth is more evenly distributed, fostering stability and prosperity across all regions."

By emphasizing India's leadership role and offering comprehensive solutions, the panelist would have made the case for collaboration while maintaining the strength of his criticisms. This approach positions India not just as a challenger to the status quo but as a visionary nation ready to lead in partnership with Europe and the world.
 
Host: Mr. Sarin, I'd like to start with you. Yesterday, Isabel posed an interesting question: "Who’s waiting for Europe?" And today I want to ask you the same, with a slight twist. Who’s waiting for Germany? Some believe Germany is poised to reclaim its global leadership role. What's your take?

Indian Panelist (Mr. Sarin): "Thank you. While Germany undoubtedly has a pivotal role to play, I'd argue that the world, and particularly India, is looking to partner with Germany, not just wait for it. India is growing rapidly—we’re on track to expand from $4 trillion to $10 trillion over the next decade. This presents a unique opportunity for both of our regions. Europe, including Germany, can diversify its partnerships, move beyond an overreliance on China, and embrace the immense potential India offers in technology, sustainable energy, and economic growth. We aren’t asking Europe to abandon its existing ties, but rather to complement them by joining forces with a rising India. Together, we can chart a course for sustainable, inclusive growth."

Host: So you're proposing deeper India-Europe cooperation to address some of the global challenges we face?

Mr. Sarin: "Absolutely. Europe has always been a leader in fields like sustainability and human rights. But today, it’s about agility and adaptation. Europe, especially Germany, has the industrial strength and the technological prowess, but it can be more expeditionary in its outlook. For example, with India's advancements in AI, digital infrastructure, and renewable energy, we can create synergies that not only secure growth but also contribute to global stability. By working together, Europe and India can reduce risks, whether in supply chains or geopolitical dependencies. India is offering Europe a chance to diversify its markets and investments in a way that strengthens both our regions."

European Panelist (Mr. Franka): "That’s an interesting perspective, Samir. I think you’re right that diversification is key, and I appreciate that you're framing this as an opportunity for partnership rather than a criticism of Europe’s current strategy. From the Munich Security Conference’s perspective, we’ve been seeing a shift in how the Global South views international systems, and I agree that India's leadership, particularly during its G20 presidency, has been exemplary in bringing these issues to the fore."

Mr. Sarin: "Exactly. If we look at global governance today, the G20 is now more critical than ever, especially with the inclusion of the African Union. India’s role as a bridge between the Global South and developed economies positions it to lead this dialogue. This is not just about India seeking a seat at the table—it’s about creating a more inclusive world order where emerging economies, particularly from Africa and Latin America, are equal stakeholders. For instance, while global finance is still concentrated in the West, emerging economies like India are contributing over 60% of global growth. There’s an opportunity here to rethink how financial flows and investments are structured."

Host: It sounds like you're advocating for a more inclusive financial system. What would that look like in practice?

Mr. Sarin: "In practice, it means expanding partnerships to ensure capital flows into emerging markets that are driving global growth. For example, India is taking bold steps on climate action, yet climate finance is still largely controlled by European and North American institutions. If we reframe the global financial architecture to allow for greater participation from countries in Asia, Africa, and Latin America, we can create a more balanced and resilient system. India is ready to work with Europe to shape these new frameworks."

Mr. Franka: "I agree with you in principle. The financial architecture does need to evolve, but I would also argue that the West has been taking steps, for instance, in reforming global financial institutions. But I think what you're getting at is that more needs to be done to include countries like India, which are now pivotal in global growth. And this is where India’s voice is becoming more critical."

Mr. Sarin: "Absolutely. What we are advocating for is not the dismantling of the current system, but its expansion. India is already leading the way in several sectors—AI, renewable energy, space exploration—and we want to bring these innovations into a global partnership with Europe. For instance, our work in green hydrogen can complement Europe's ambitions in renewable energy, creating a stronger, mutually beneficial economic relationship."

Host: That’s a good point. Europe has been pushing for a green transition. How can Europe and India collaborate more on climate action?

Mr. Sarin: "India is a founding member of the International Solar Alliance, which seeks to mobilize $1 trillion in solar energy investments by 2030. We are pioneering large-scale renewable energy projects, and Europe has the expertise in clean tech. By combining our strengths, we can accelerate the global shift to sustainable energy. Furthermore, climate finance needs to be democratized. Right now, too much of the funding is locked in Western institutions, and the countries most affected by climate change are often the least funded. By establishing more collaborative climate finance mechanisms, we can ensure that the countries contributing to and suffering from climate challenges are equally supported."

Mr. Franka: "That’s a very constructive suggestion, and it’s an area where Europe can definitely do more. What I also like about your approach is that it's not just about being against the current order—it’s about building a future vision. I think that’s a refreshing take, and it's something we need to focus on."

Host: Samir, earlier you mentioned the need for reform in global institutions like the UN Security Council. Can you elaborate on that?

Mr. Sarin: "The UN Security Council reflects a post-World War II reality that no longer serves the broader interests of today’s world. India, Brazil, and other emerging powers are key players in global stability, yet we remain underrepresented. What I propose is a reform of the Security Council that includes these new voices. For example, the African Union’s entry into the G20 shows that multilateralism is evolving, and the UN should follow suit. This isn’t about dismantling existing structures but about evolving them to meet the needs of an interconnected, multipolar world. India is ready to help lead that conversation, in partnership with Europe."

Host: What would be the immediate next steps in advancing this vision of cooperation between India and Europe?

Mr. Sarin: "The first step is deepening our economic ties. India and Europe should focus on creating joint initiatives in areas like technology, defense, and sustainability. For instance, India’s advancements in AI and digital technology are ripe for collaboration with Europe’s regulatory expertise. Additionally, we can work together on developing resilient supply chains, especially in critical sectors like semiconductors and energy. Beyond that, we must create diplomatic initiatives that bring together not just governments, but businesses and civil society, to work on these long-term projects. It’s about creating frameworks that outlast political cycles and focus on the shared prosperity of our regions."

Mr. Franka: "I think that’s exactly the kind of approach we need. More than just identifying problems, this is about actionable steps we can take together. India’s rise is a reality, and Europe must engage fully in this new global dynamic."

Host: Well, it seems like both of you agree on the potential for an India-Europe partnership that addresses global challenges. Samir, your focus on solutions certainly provides a forward-looking perspective that we can all take away. Thank you both for this engaging discussion. It’s clear that India and Europe have a lot to offer each other moving forward.

Mr. Sarin: "Thank you. I firmly believe the future is brighter when India and Europe work together, and I look forward to building this new chapter in our global relationship."
 
The two versions of the dialogue—the original transcript and the revised version—differ significantly in tone, structure, and their ability to engage the audience. Here's a breakdown of how each approach affects the audience and why one would likely lead to a more receptive and constructive conversation.

1. Tone and Emotional Impact

Original Conversation:
- Tone: The original conversation often feels confrontational, with the Indian panelist expressing frustration, using phrases like "Europe is stubbornly refusing," "it's your fault," and "you’re sleeping for two months." These remarks create an antagonistic tone that may evoke defensive reactions from the European audience.
- Emotional Impact: The aggressive language might make the audience feel criticized or attacked, especially as it implies that they are failing or unwilling to adapt. Such language can cause listeners to tune out or focus on defending their position, rather than engaging with the panelist’s points.

Revised Conversation:
- Tone: In the revised conversation, the panelist uses more diplomatic and constructive language, such as "India presents a tremendous opportunity" and "We can work together to solve this." This tone shifts the focus from blaming to collaboration, making the dialogue feel more inviting and solution-oriented.
- Emotional Impact: The audience is more likely to feel respected and involved in the conversation, fostering a sense of partnership. By framing criticism as an opportunity for improvement rather than failure, the audience feels less attacked and more empowered to engage in finding solutions.

2. Problem Identification vs. Solution Orientation

Original Conversation:
- Problem Identification: The original dialogue is heavily focused on identifying problems, often with a sharp tone. The panelist points out Europe’s attachment to China, lack of critical thinking, and over-reliance on outdated systems. While these are valid points, they are not paired with actionable solutions.
- Effect on Audience: Without clear solutions, the audience may feel cornered or hopeless, unsure of how to address the criticisms. This can result in disengagement, as people are more likely to become defensive or dismissive when problems are presented without a roadmap for change.

Revised Conversation:
- Solution Orientation: The revised dialogue still identifies the same problems but quickly transitions into offering concrete solutions. For example, the suggestion of India and Europe collaborating on green energy or reforming global institutions gives the audience a clear path forward.
- Effect on Audience: A solution-oriented conversation tends to energize and inspire the audience. By showing that the problems are solvable and offering specific actions, the revised conversation gives the audience a sense of agency. They are more likely to feel motivated to participate in creating change rather than simply defending their current position.

3. Collaborative vs. Confrontational Approach

Original Conversation:
- Confrontational: The original dialogue often frames India’s rise in contrast to Europe’s stagnation, with statements that imply Europe is falling behind or failing to recognize India’s potential. Phrases like "you need to stop your China addiction" and "it's your fault" draw sharp lines between the two regions.
- Effect on Audience: This approach can make the audience feel that they are being unfairly judged, which triggers defensiveness. When people feel blamed or accused, they are less likely to engage productively, as their primary focus becomes protecting their image rather than solving the issue at hand.

Revised Conversation:
- Collaborative: In the revised conversation, the panelist invites Europe into a partnership, emphasizing mutual benefits rather than pointing fingers. By using phrases like "we can work together" and "India is ready to help Europe diversify its partnerships," the conversation shifts to one of shared goals and mutual growth.
- Effect on Audience: A collaborative tone fosters receptivity and openness. Instead of feeling that their past decisions are being condemned, the audience feels that they are being offered a chance to be part of a positive future. This makes them more likely to engage with the panelist’s ideas and explore the proposed solutions.

4. Empowerment vs. Defensiveness

Original Conversation:
- Defensiveness: The language used in the original conversation tends to push the audience into a defensive mindset. The panelist frequently highlights what Europe is doing wrong without offering much acknowledgment of Europe’s strengths or potential. This "us vs. them" dynamic can make the European audience feel alienated or attacked.
- Effect on Audience: When people feel criticized without seeing a clear way forward, they tend to shut down or become defensive. This prevents productive engagement and reduces the likelihood of constructive dialogue or collaboration.

Revised Conversation:
- Empowerment: The revised conversation is more empowering for the audience. By acknowledging Europe’s strengths (e.g., its leadership in sustainability) and suggesting that India can complement these strengths, the panelist invites Europe to be part of a shared vision. The conversation positions Europe as a necessary partner in driving global change.
- Effect on Audience: This empowerment makes the audience feel valued and capable of contributing to the solution. It transforms the conversation from one of criticism to one of opportunity, making the audience more open and willing to engage with the ideas being presented.

5. Focus on Mutual Benefits

Original Conversation:
- Focus on Problems: The original dialogue primarily focuses on what Europe is doing wrong, with little attention given to how both Europe and India could benefit from collaboration. The panelist emphasizes India’s strengths but often in a way that contrasts with Europe’s weaknesses.
- Effect on Audience: This imbalance can cause the audience to feel that they are being diminished or overshadowed by India’s rise. Instead of focusing on what they could gain, they might perceive the conversation as a competition where they are on the losing side.

Revised Conversation:
- Focus on Mutual Benefits: The revised dialogue emphasizes how both Europe and India can benefit from working together. The panelist speaks of opportunities for shared growth, innovation, and leadership, highlighting how collaboration can strengthen both regions.
- Effect on Audience: When the focus is on mutual benefits, the audience feels that they stand to gain from the proposed solutions. This fosters a more positive and constructive mindset, where both sides feel that they are working toward a common goal rather than being in opposition to each other.

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Conclusion

The revised method of dialogue will likely have a more receptive audience because it:
- Balances critique with solutions, showing that the issues can be addressed rather than just criticized.
- Fosters collaboration, inviting the audience into a shared vision instead of alienating them.
- Encourages a positive emotional response, making the audience feel respected, involved, and empowered to contribute to the conversation.
- Focuses on mutual benefits, ensuring that the audience sees how they, too, can gain from the proposed changes.

By reframing the conversation to emphasize partnership, shared solutions, and forward-looking opportunities, the revised version is much more likely to engage and persuade the audience than the original, more confrontational approach.
 
Azaad said:
Really ? I thought he was mostly condescending of Europe & Germany in a polite manner apart from haranguing them castigating them & frankly insulting them in sarcastically.
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He was condescending from a defensive context. It comes off as whining to the entity being asked to yield power.

Europe is not investing enough in India.
You mainly do business with China.
You aren't allowing India into P5.

More powerful messaging:

We have limited allocations for participating in the India growth story. Mostly US, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan are investing into India, but EU is not on the radar.
China's workforce is reducing and their manufacturing prowess is no longer competitive when India is bridging the gap in infrastructure and skilled labor force, EU can be ahead of the curve by partnering with India at this nascent stage of growth and show more initiative.
If India is not admitted to P5 by 2028, we will divest from the UN in exchange for a forum that is more representative.
 
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