GTRE GTX 35VS Kaveri

Candid talk from the man himself. Acknowledges the deficiencies esp with respect to the low R&D spend. Argues for testing facilities at all subsystem levels, high altitude testing, FTB, 50k ton forging press and much more.

Hope the GOI takes note on all this.

Though I wonder, is co-development with foreign engine OEM the only way? I don't see foreign OEM's giving away such tech.


View: https://x.com/cvkrishnan/status/1876700919796056405
 
sameer said:
Though I wonder, is co-development with foreign engine OEM the only way? I don't see foreign OEM's giving away such tech.
Click to expand...

Couple of possibilities
  • This is an arrangement between DRDO/DPSU lobby and import khor Genrol/Baboo lobby, Safran ofc won't help without another Rafale purchase, DRDO lobby meanwhile is assured funding for the stuff they need with no obsrtuction by Genrol/Babu.
  • Another way of thinking is DRDO knows they can't get the engine matching the specs in a specific time-frame, going full atmanirbhar may take another 20 years with reverse engineering, industrial espionage and hiring skilled, experienced guys from abroad.

Remember it took Chings a full 30-40 years to get their own jet engines with them having a very efficient political system to get shit done, large and sustained budget over decades and with the bolded above
 
shade2 said:
Couple of possibilities
  • This is an arrangement between DRDO/DPSU lobby and import khor Genrol/Baboo lobby, Safran ofc won't help without another Rafale purchase, DRDO lobby meanwhile is assured funding for the stuff they need with no obsrtuction by Genrol/Babu.
  • Another way of thinking is DRDO knows they can't get the engine matching the specs in a specific time-frame, going full atmanirbhar may take another 20 years with reverse engineering, industrial espionage and hiring skilled, experienced guys from abroad.

Remember it took Chings a full 30-40 years to get their own jet engines with them having a very efficient political system to get shit done, large and sustained budget over decades and with the bolded above
Click to expand...
I think govt should give aero engine development responsibility to pvt players:-

Godrez
Azad engineering
etc.

They will surely deliver .........now danda is required... RD engine jo Sukhoi main lagta hai reverse enginerr nahin kar payeee...kya umeed kar sakte hai...
 
TopWatcher said:
I think govt should give aero engine development responsibility to pvt players:-

Godrez
Azad engineering
etc.

They will surely deliver .........now danda is required... RD engine jo Sukhoi main lagta hai reverse enginerr nahin kar payeee...kya umeed kar sakte hai...
Click to expand...

No they won't, kharcha is too much and Govt won't give "ebul private sector" loads of funding across a span of minimum a decade.

pic related

1736324920280.webp

btw It's not that they couldn't, it's that they weren't told to/allowed to reverse engineer the RD-33 or AL31FP engines, for fear of offending the Russi.

It's another thing the Chinese did the same and got away by paying Russi a fine and have been continuing their work ever since.


Private Sector can pitch in with parts or collaboration though, minimum risk for them and they can play to their strengths.
 
shade2 said:
No they won't, kharcha is too much and Govt won't give "ebul private sector" loads of funding across a span of minimum a decade.

pic related

View attachment 21042

btw It's not that they couldn't, it's that they weren't told to/allowed to reverse engineer the RD-33 or AL31FP engines, for fear of offending the Russi.

It's another thing the Chinese did the same and got away by paying Russi a fine and have been continuing their work ever since.


Private Sector can pitch in with parts or collaboration though, minimum risk for them and they can play to their strengths.
Click to expand...
God Save India...humara kuch nahin hoon sakta...
 
Azaad said:
Kaveri is a leaky turbojet right now. The proposal for a VCE is still a proposal.

We are aiming to operationalize the Kaveri first & foremost.

Theoretically, a leaky turbojet can be converted to a VCE. But this would require a big upgrade to the hot section of the engine. VCE would allow the bypass ratio to be increased, with that the TET would also increase. If the hot section of the engine cannot survive a higher TET, VCE would be pointless.

Kaveri prototype 8 (K8)- 1430 kg (equiaxed blades & vanes)
Kaveri prototype 9 (K9)- 1235 kg (DS blades & vanes. This prototype was flight tested in Russia)
upgraded Kaveri prototype 9 (K9)- 1180 kg (new distortion tolerant fan, single crystal blades & vanes, YSZ-LZ TBC, modified gearbox)
Kaveri prototype 8 (K10)- 1100 kg (target weight)

Modification to the design, especially the afterburners. Inclusion of 3D printed parts in cold section of the engine.

Lab scale production. Used for ablative testing so far.

By itself BMGs may not be as effective. But, BMG when sandwiched with CMC can make excellent TBC material.

BMGs are metals except they don't have crystalline atomic matrix. They have an amorphous matrix like glasses. BMGs are incredibly tough, very lightweight & have better high temp creep resistance than CMCs.

CERMET is a subset of CMC.

=============================


The above is a conversation between myself & Gautam Sarkar of Strategic Frontier . He's been following the program for a long time & has done his Masters in metallurgical engineering which means he knows what he's talking about.
Click to expand...

View: https://twitter.com/Rethik_D/status/1876861681000661384?s=19

So rumours of us having developed a CMC core with a temperature exceeding 1700°C appears true.
 
Anants said:
I would be surprised. But I doubt, g8ven for Kaveri they have decided to go back to 2005 to 2012 period where Kaveri Achieved 45 kn /74 kn
Click to expand...
Decklander from Strat Front suggested we must have exceeded 1700°C . He got the info thru his sources. Didn't mention it here since it wasn't confirmed.
 
Azaad said:
Decklander from Strat Front suggested we must have exceeded 1700°C . He got the info thru his sources. Didn't mention it here since it wasn't confirmed.
Click to expand...
Mate no offense but that figure is quite optimistic given reality of Kaveri. What's status of HAL turbofan and turboshaft engines? That will give us some inkling where our current metallurgical capabilities lie.
 
Anants said:
Mate no offense but that figure is quite optimistic given reality of Kaveri. What's status of HAL turbofan and turboshaft engines? That will give us some inkling where our current metallurgical capabilities lie.
Click to expand...
Why should one be linked to the other? It's quite possible the Kaveri or the Kaveri Derivative Engine are separate from the program to validate CMC cores withstanding 1700°C + temperature.

This doesn't translate to mean the current ones being built or tested contain these CMC cores. The day GTRE successfully tests & certifies it, it'd feature in the Kaveri or KDE.
 
Aaj Ka Hero said:
Bhai, how did you get 1700°C figure with that? Can you guide me here? I want to know.
Click to expand...
It's a data point from a discussion in another forum
 
Azaad said:
Why should one be linked to the other? It's quite possible the Kaveri or the Kaveri Derivative Engine are separate from the program to validate CMC cores withstanding 1700°C + temperature.
Click to expand...
Possibly, but any tech breakthrough would have trickled to Kaveri Dry and we would have seen improvement - given that's the only engine which occasionally breathes rarified air of russia - my guess they would have loved to validate newly developed tech/materials as much as feasible in engine?
 
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