IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

Corvus Splendens

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Discuss the aerial exchange between the Indian Air Force and the Pakistani airforce, in the aftermath of the February 26, 2019 Balakot airstrikes conducted by the IAF on a Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) terrorist camp in Pakistan.
 
Adding my points as far as narratives and objectives are concerned. Please continue with the debate of your liking on technical or non-technical issues of that incident.

You can not kill an F-16 without crossing the LOC. And crossing the LOC comes with all the risks of becoming prey and getting shot at.

It is strange to see Indians talking about fighting very clinical warfare like Americans do which operates on the doctrine of establishing air dominance but ignores that IAF does not have such luxuries. IAF Pilots are not trained not to wait till air dominance is established. To wait, because any attrition will be bad for information war is totally against the IAF doctrine of Ingress, raid and quickly retreat facing a stone's throw away hostile neighbour who is at par in every account.

Also, it is silly to first secure a technological edge like waiting till Rafale or more potent jets are inducted and not respond to our tactile or strategic tasks imposed on us or demanded by the political leadership.

The fundamental rule of 'requiring judgment' is practised by all the authority-run hierarchal establishments like the military.

Soldiers are trained to disobey the orders. General JFR Jacob never had the approval to capture the whole of East Pakistan. He disagreed and implemented his plan of ‘War of Movement’ to capture Dhaka. Things could have gone easily wrong but he took his chances.

General Jacob never became COAS or Field Marshal, no ace Pilot has always or all time superseded his seniors to secure more important posts.

There is no need to diss your soldiers who do their duty with given resources and challenge the enemies.

Saying WC Abhinandan jeopardised the further escalation after that tactical skirmish is again a misreading of the events.

India made it very clear after Balakot that those were non-military strikes and we have no further desire to escalate further. We have always operated under international pressure to 'not escalate'. Even after the Pakistani raid on border CP, we stated categorically that it would be avenged at the time and place of our choosing. The air traffic was restored within hours.

Do not impose your winning the information war on forces because it will make you look happy on social media.

Last but not least India met its military objectives that day.

This nation will always be proud of its Abhimanyus who knew they would never return but still went into Chakravyuh to teach the enemy a lesson.

Winning an Information war after losing militarily is an insult only enjoyed by the cowards.
 
Some important points to read in this article. Long Reading.
By Mr Sameer Joshi.


Initial paragraphs from the article copy pasted below.

8 pieces of clinching evidence that show how IAF’s Abhinandan shot down a Pakistani F-16​


Using Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) & other evidence, an IAF veteran reconstructs IAF-PAF battle day after Balakot & concludes PAF indeed lost an F-16.​

SAMEER JOSHI
20 August, 2019 09:30 am IST

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New Delhi: After the Indian Air Force strike on a Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist camp in Pakistan on 26 February, followed by the high voltage aerial skirmish the next day between the rival air forces, the widespread din — created from manufactured lies, deceit and a misinformation campaign by the Pakistan Army’s infamous Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) — to deny and cover up tactical shortcomings of the Pakistan Air Force and the shooting down of the PAF aircraft — has pro-actively blurred the truth.
The first casualty of war is always the truth! Somewhere in between this subterfuge is a PAF pilot and an aircraft tail number — shot down in heady combat by an IAF MiG-21, before the MiG itself fell victim to an air-to-air missile fired by the PAF.
The Pakistani military establishment denies the F-16 shoot down vehemently — insisting that the only aircraft which crashed in PoK that fateful day was an IAF MiG-21, the fall of which is well documented in multiple amateur video feeds — while craftily masking all evidence of the PAF aircraft crash to serve the wider agenda of upholding the morale and invincibility of the Pakistan Air Force — the Pāk Fizāʾiyah.
While the OSINT (Open-source Intelligence) evidence is available to sift through its worth — the first indication of a massive cover-up by the Pakistani state was provided by none other than Major General Asif Ghafoor, the DG ISPR — who overwhelmed by the need to be ahead in the information war with India — inadvertently gave away the presence of the #DoosraBanda within the hour after the aerial clash.

However, in today’s digital age — it is literally impossible to control and wipe away information traces in toto — especially on a day when hundreds of trigger-happy residents in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) had their mobile phone cameras trained towards the skies, recording the massive presence of fighter jets and their ensuing melee.
A highly detailed study of more than 128 OSINT videos reveals — though the Pakistani military was successfully able to impose a media and communication blackout over the crash site of the PAF jet, thus eliminating any proof of the debris on ground, as well as keeping the focus on the crash and capture of the Indian pilot, three videos — two filmed near the PAF jet crash site and one taken across the LoC from J&K — clearly record the last fall of a ‘second aircraft’ in the skies south of Kotli in PoK — proof that the Indian Air Force had indeed shot down a PAF asset that day!

The prelude

At around 1020 hours on 27 February 19, Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman of the Indian Air Force crossed into Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) abeam the Nowshera sector of Jammu & Kashmir (J&K) while flying a MiG-21 Bison of the 51 Squadron. Abhinandan, callsign Alpha-1, who had been scrambled from Srinagar Air Force Base — was in hot pursuit of Pakistan Air Force F-16s which, as part of ‘Operation Swift Retort’, had violated the Line of Control (LoC) and launched AMRAAM missiles against IAF Su-30MKIs a few minutes back.
1-1.jpg
A MiG-21 Bison of the IAF armed with R-77 and R-73 missiles at an air show | Photo: kensekhon.ca
Abhinandan, was cautioned by the IAF fighter controller at the IACCS node about an F-16 Barrier Combat Air Patrol (BARCAP) going HOT, turning around to face him — with Alpha formation advised to go COLD and return back across the LoC. While Alpha-2, Abhinandan’s No. 2 turned back, Abhinandan pressed on his quest to lock on to the marauding PAF jets. He had search mode indication of at least two F-16s on his Kopyo radar at 30–35 km range on course 290 degree. Wanting to make sure that he did not have any targets closer than that, Abhinandan switched over to his close combat mode on the radar and swept the area ahead of him trying to get a radar assisted lock for the R-73.

While climbing passing 20,000 feet, he got a lock on tone in one of his R-73s. This indicated that the missile head had locked onto an infra-red source within its gimbal limits. On the basis of a positive lock by the missile, Abhinandan fired the R-73 and turned around on a northerly course, before finally settling on an eastern heading towards the LoC.
About 45–50 seconds after his R-73 launch and about 7 km inside PoK, the MiG-21 was hit by an AMRAAM fired by a PAF F-16.
Abhinandan ejected from the stricken aircraft and parachuted to safety, landing 4 km away from the LoC near Horan Kotla village in PoK. He was brutally attacked by civilians, before being dramatically handed over to the Pakistan Army.
His ordeal made him a focal point of the developing crisis, when in gross violation of the Geneva convention, the footage of his battered face was intentionally released on Pakistani television and social media by Pakistan Army affiliates minutes later. What was clear was that the Pakistani armed forces had activated the now infamous Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) to get the narrative under control.

Meanwhile, the Indian Air Force, on the basis of the radar picture of the aerial engagement, as well as conformation from the Indian Army on visual sighting of two aircraft crashing in PoK on separate radials, announced the shooting down of a Pakistan Air Force F-16. It also acknowledged the loss of one MiG-21 over PoK.
Pakistan has since then denied the loss of any airborne asset as part of ‘Operation Swift Retort’ on 27 February 2019.

Evidence 1: ISPR’s infamous ‘Doosra Banda’

The ISPR for all its so-called resourcefulness, was overwhelmed by the pace of events after the 27 February aerial clash — when it inadvertently admitted to the presence of a ‘second pilot’ in custody of the Pakistan Army.
Immediately after the clash, Major General Asif Ghafoor — the Director-General of Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) and chief spokesperson of the Pakistani armed forces, tweeted on the ISPR handle that two Indian jets had been shot down by the PAF in PoK, with one pilot arrested by the Pakistani army and two still in the area.
 
My take on this incident, feel free to agree or disagree as these are just few of the points I remember when I discussed this fiasco in the past.
  • The events that unfolded between 26th and 27th of February 2019 involving the Balakot Bombing and Operation Swift Retard still have many details hidden from the public, some of which we might know many years from now and some that may remain hidden from the eyes of the public forever. We still do not actually have a clear picture of what unfolded on 27th February when a strike package of the PAF tried to cross the LOC with the intent of hitting Indian military installations.
  • What losses were incurred that day and who scored a kill on who? India lost a MiG-21 to enemy fire, and a Mi-17 to friendly fire. Pakistan on the other hand lost one of its prized falcons to a MiG-21 piloted by W.C Abhinandan Varthaman.
  • Considering how Pakistan had been changing its statements consistently, it's better that we take any of their claims with a pinch of salt. It may be entirely possible that W.C Abhinandan was shot down by a enemy SAM system or maybe the MiG-21 may have suffered an engine flame-out.
  • MiGs have suffered engine flame-outs in the past, in Kargil a MiG-27 piloted by Flight Lieutenant Nachiketa Rao was lost over the Batalik sector due to an engine flameout. It's entirely possible that the MiG-21 didn't meet its end as a kill by a PAF jet.
  • The PAF initially claimed that there were no F-16s involved that day but the remains of an American AIM-120 AMRAAM missile clearly proved the involvement of F-16s as only F-16s can fire these missiles.
  • The PAF claimed to have shot down an Su-30MKI Flanker but provided no evidence to prove their claim of hitting a Sukhoi. IAF trolled the PAF by flying the same Su-30MKIs with call signs "Avenger 1 & Avenger 2". If PAF did shoot down a Sukhoi, then the news of the downed Flanker would have spread like wildfire across India. In India, it's impossible to hide the wreckage of a jet as large as a Flanker. So no wreckage of any shot down Sukhoi was found, why? Because no Flanker was shot down that day.
  • Though the PAF had the advantage of surprise and numerical superiority, the IAF countered the huge PAF strike package with good tactics and planning.
  • We may have had several disappointments that day but we need to take this skirmish as a valuable learning experience so that in the near future, we may be better prepared.
  • It's been five years since this air battle happened over the skies of the India-Pakistan region and I think we have a lot more details to put this Incident to rest.
To the guys reading this, I am sure that we will keep this thread as small as possible because instead of unnecessary assumptions, we will have more relevant posts here. Quantity≠Quality. That said, we can discuss this incident once again and put an end to this topic by this year.
 
India should act decisively to punish terrorists for Reasi terror act

To date, no action has been taken on Pakistan who sent terrorists to attack pilgrims in Jammu/Reasi. Any delay will not be considered as a retribution but a fresh Indian Attack. If not done quickly, then Pakistani planners will get away with the act and get ready for a new such act. Hence retribution should come now and quickly.

Previously on February 27, 2019, an air battle occurred near the LOC, following India's bombing of the Balakot terrorist complex the previous day. Pakistan retaliated with a huge air armada of 16 planes including F-16, JF-17, Mirage 2000 and a bomber group supported by radar planes to bomb Indian Bhimber Brigade Headquarters. Indian MIG-21s foiled that attempt and saved countless lives. However, Pakistan scored a significant victory by shooting down an Indian MiG-21, piloted by ace pilot Abhinandan Varthaman, who was captured after ejecting over Pakistan. Although Pakistan denied it, evidence suggested an F-16 was also downed, with witnesses reporting the F-16 pilot was killed.

If similar action air action occurs today after Reasi pilgrims bus terror act then India should get up and go and shoot down Pakistani planes who interfere in India’s punishment of the terrorists within POK. This also be high time to show off India’s new military hardware and missiles. It will also signal to Pakistan that no terrorist action will go unpunished.
 
Pakistanis often claim that their beloved dgisprs's claim of 2 pilots being in custody was due to "fog of war." But in his interview dating 6 March he repeats the same line-" ek pilot unki death hui , dusra pilot hamari giraft mein tha jisko release kardiya Gaya."


View: https://x.com/Samarth19567493/status/1762450440103584006
 
Pakistanis often claim that their beloved dgisprs's claim of 2 pilots being in custody was due to "fog of war." But in his interview dating 6 March he repeats the same line-" ek pilot unki death hui , dusra pilot hamari giraft mein tha jisko release kardiya Gaya."


View: https://x.com/Samarth19567493/status/1762450440103584006

The F-16 shoot-down happened on 27th February 2019. 2019 was not a leap year so February had 28 days.
From 27th February to 6th March (date of the interview where DGISPR admits to a pilot being dead in their custody).
So how many days passed? Let's do a simple math which would be like this: February 27th, 28th, March 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th.
So from Feb 27th => March 6th, 8 days passed.

Fog of war like what Pakistanis claim does not last for 8 days, either Gayfoora is a moron or he is the most informed guy of the incident to have blurted out the truth indirectly (which he did).

Most militaries around the world would avoid giving any statements on any incident until and unless the situation is eased down between both the sides.

Pak's Fog of war in a nutshell:
One day after the skirmish, OK It was fog of war.
Two days after the skirmish, OK it was again for of war.
Three days after the skirmish, WTF? Ok it was fog of war.

BUT EIGHT DAYS? What is GHAFOOR smoking? What kind of drug or weed effects last for 8 days for him to be still confused?

India's stance from day 1 has been consistent, what the Indian Media may want to throw around doesn't matter, what matters is direct/official statements from the IAF themselves. The same cannot be said for Pakistan who constantly changed their statements after realising that they lost a prized F-16 "FALCON" to a MiG-21 bison.
 
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Adding (+) my own input to Tom Cooper's words.

A few years back, I was browsing through Quora and looking up answers to questions about the Balakot Airstrikes & the post Balakot aerial skirmish and (of course) I was reading the comments under the quora answers too.

A comment under one of the answers immediately caught my attention. At around the same time, I had met @FalconSlayers on twitter and we were both mutual friends, I shared this screenshot with him of the comment. He later posted the same screenshot on DFI's "MiG-21 shoots down F-16 Thread" while mentioning me to give me credit for the find.

So here is the screenshot, everyone have a very good look at it, go ahead. I do not know if this is a comment by a real Pakistani who is venting out his frustration over the incompetency of his country's current government or its an Indian masquerading as a Pakistani. But I'd say it's definitely genuine.

IMG_20240707_204122.jpg

God only knows how many F-16s, JF-17s, F-7s and other PAF jets have actually crashed. That said, It's not a difficult task to black out information in Pakistan when most of the elements of the society are under the control of the military.

Remember this: "Every country has a Military but Pakistan Army has a country". Let's see if Pakistan in a few years from now will admit to an F-16 getting shot down or not, most likely some retired Pak general will write about it in his journal and expose the truth to everyone.
 

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