IAF's Sukhoi Su-30MKI

[E-195]

HAL delivers first AL-31FP engine of Su 30MKI to IAF under new contract​

The statement said Secretary (Defence Production) Sanjeev Kumar lauded HAL's efforts in delivering the first engine within weeks of signing the contract​

https://www.business-standard.com/external-affairs-defence-security/news/hal-delivers-first-al-31fp-engine-of-su-30mki-to-iaf-under-new-contract-124100100907_1.html#goog_rewarded

 

[Harry]

According to the EurAsian Times, American pilots who participated in the encounter shared some intriguing insights. One USAF pilot highlighted the impressive thrust vectoring capabilities of the Su-30MKI. However, this advantage quickly turned into a vulnerability. As the pilot described, “So we start pulling it in, and then all of a sudden you start to see [the rear end of the Su-30] pull back, and it starts to vector thrust.” But then, almost immediately, the Su-30 began to lose altitude rapidly. “It falls from the sky so fast you don’t even have to climb. You just have to pull the stick back a little bit, pull the throttle, switch to the weapons, and go in and blow his brains out,” the pilot elaborated.

Su-30MKI rapidly loses altitude after thrust vectoring - USAF pilot

bulgarianmilitary.com

 

[Harry]

According to the EurAsian Times, American pilots who participated in the encounter shared some intriguing insights. One USAF pilot highlighted the impressive thrust vectoring capabilities of the Su-30MKI. However, this advantage quickly turned into a vulnerability. As the pilot described, “So we start pulling it in, and then all of a sudden you start to see [the rear end of the Su-30] pull back, and it starts to vector thrust.” But then, almost immediately, the Su-30 began to lose altitude rapidly. “It falls from the sky so fast you don’t even have to climb. You just have to pull the stick back a little bit, pull the throttle, switch to the weapons, and go in and blow his brains out,” the pilot elaborated.
According to the EurAsian Times, American pilots who participated in the encounter shared some intriguing insights. One USAF pilot highlighted the impressive thrust vectoring capabilities of the Su-30MKI. However, this advantage quickly turned into a vulnerability.

Su-30MKI rapidly loses altitude after thrust vectoring - USAF pilot

bulgarianmilitary.com

Is this true guys??

 

[Binayak95]

Is this true guys??

Of course it is, youre maneuvering rapidly to gain an advantageous position for a missile shot - no plane in the world can do that without losing energy. basic physics.

 

[Anants]

According to the EurAsian Times, American pilots who participated in the encounter shared some intriguing insights. One USAF pilot highlighted the impressive thrust vectoring capabilities of the Su-30MKI. However, this advantage quickly turned into a vulnerability. As the pilot described, “So we start pulling it in, and then all of a sudden you start to see [the rear end of the Su-30] pull back, and it starts to vector thrust.” But then, almost immediately, the Su-30 began to lose altitude rapidly. “It falls from the sky so fast you don’t even have to climb. You just have to pull the stick back a little bit, pull the throttle, switch to the weapons, and go in and blow his brains out,” the pilot elaborated.

Su-30MKI rapidly loses altitude after thrust vectoring - USAF pilot

bulgarianmilitary.com

Its from first Redflag video shared by USAF colonel - eons ago when Sukhoi 30 MKI were new in IAF inventory. The dialogue gave away.

 

[Abhijeet]

Its from first Redflag video shared by USAF colonel - eons ago when Sukhoi 30 MKI were new in IAF inventory. The dialogue gave away.

Of course it is, youre maneuvering rapidly to gain an advantageous position for a missile shot - no plane in the world can do that without losing energy. basic physics.

So is IAF going to do something about it? India's adversaries (with western jets) may use it as an advantage against MKIs.

 

[Anants]

So is IAF going to do something about it? India's adversaries (with western jets) may use it as an advantage against MKIs.

Dude this quip is from iirc 2008 ie 16 yrs back. Dont you think IAF would have evolved its tactics by now?

 

[Blademaster]

Dude this quip is from iirc 2008 ie 16 yrs back. Dont you think IAF would have evolved its tactics by now?

I think the Saturn -AF-41 engine upgrade would have solved that issue by now.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

I think the Saturn -AF-41 engine upgrade would have solved that issue by now.

Dogfight is a thing of past.

 

[Patriots]

2 su 30 s fought with many f16s ,.....in 2019
...capability of su 30 mki

 

[Binayak95]

So is IAF going to do something about it? India's adversaries (with western jets) may use it as an advantage against MKIs.

Do what?

When you're fighting in a Large Force Engagement, the chances of a fighter gunning another fighter down is non existent.


Of course you still train dogfighting because thats how you develop currency and competence in flying the bird.

You can always, always outmaneuver the guy youre fighting, you may even shoot him down - but his buddy, who went high while you tango danced, is now perched above your dead ass and is looking with salivating lips and red eyes at your twin pipes, trigger finger itching on the growl.

 

[Binayak95]

Dogfight is a thing of past.

No - its not. the skills translate extremely well to defeating a pitbulled AIM120

 

[Binayak95]

I think the Saturn -AF-41 engine upgrade would have solved that issue by now.

how do you solve the issue of losing air speed in a turning fight?
Not even some mythical HALO fighter with ion engines (or whatever they use) can negate friction and airspeed loss in maneuvers.

What you can do is decrease the amount of time it retakes to regain same speed and altitude as before - but wouldn't you rather train the pilots to enter combat at a higher altitude and airspeed to begin with?

 

[AYoungBrotchen]

So is IAF going to do something about it? India's adversaries (with western jets) may use it as an advantage against MKIs.

There's nothing to be done. If you end up in the merge with the enemy aircraft, you have already made a series of bad decisions. Modern air duels should be strictly BVR. The Su-30MKI has a RCS of 10-15 sqm^2. That's a far bigger issue than losing energy using thrust vectoring.

The only time a SU-30MKI needs to use it in Indian context is if it's in a two circle fight with a F16. The F16 will always out rate a SU-30MKI. Using thrust vectoring just as the F16 pulls it up in the HUD is the only time it can be advantageous.

 

[E-195]

Is this true guys??

No it is not.

F-22 has TVC nozzles.

TVC nozzles are always a good asset.

But in a multifighter engagement post stall should be used with great care.

Poststall slows down the SU-30MKI, true with highly off bored missiles the advantage of post stall diminishes, but here comes the real factor if you have AIM-9M and a 1 on 1 engagement post stall maneuverability does help a lot.

But if you have AIM-9X or Python V air to air missiles it is better to clue the air to air missile with the helmet mounted sight (Su-30MKI has HMS) now if you have stealth F-35 and HMS cueing AIM-9Xs then you do not need post stall.

If you have 20 fighters versus 20 fighters post stall maneuverability is not as effective because as you slow down another fighter might go fast and cue with HMS an AIM-9X and bingo post stall is ineffective.

In gun battle post stall will help more since HMS and AIM-9Xs are not used.

A su-30MKI an a F-22 dogfight with guns the SU-30MKI can beat the F-22 with post stall maneuverability

 

[Binayak95]

in the highly unlikely scenario that a Su30MKI ever has to face off an F22, it will be long dead along with all its squad mates before it even manages to get a glimpse of the Raptor.

No it is not.

F-22 has TVC nozzles.

TVC nozzles are always a good asset.

But in a multifighter engagement post stall should be used with great care.

Poststall slows down the SU-30MKI, true with highly off bored missiles the advantage of post stall diminishes, but here comes the real factor if you have AIM-9M and a 1 on 1 engagement post stall maneuverability does help a lot.

But if you have AIM-9X or Python V air to air missiles it is better to clue the air to air missile with the helmet mounted sight (Su-30MKI has HMS) now if you have stealth F-35 and HMS cueing AIM-9Xs then you do not need post stall.

If you have 20 fighters versus 20 fighters post stall maneuverability is not as effective because as you slow down another fighter might go fast and cue with HMS an AIM-9X and bingo post stall is ineffective.

In gun battle post stall will help more since HMS and AIM-9Xs are not used.

A su-30MKI an a F-22 dogfight with guns the SU-30MKI can beat the F-22 with post stall maneuverability

 

[Binayak95]

There's nothing to be done. If you end up in the merge with the enemy aircraft, you have already made a series of bad decisions. Modern air duels should be strictly BVR. The Su-30MKI has a RCS of 10-15 sqm^2. That's a far bigger issue than losing energy using thrust vectoring.

The only time a SU-30MKI needs to use it in Indian context is if it's in a two circle fight with a F16. The F16 will always out rate a SU-30MKI. Using thrust vectoring just as the F16 pulls it up in the HUD is the only time it can be advantageous.

I dont think an F16 can outrate a Su30MKI. Indian pilots have regularly beaten the hell out of F16s whether they be Singaporean or USAF - to the point that we no longer practice DACT with the same intensity. LFE is the game now.

 

[E-195]

in the highly unlikely scenario that a Su30MKI ever has to face off an F22, it will be long dead along with all its squad mates before it even manages to get a glimpse of the Raptor.

F-22 has a lot of propaganda, stealth is signature reduction, it is useful, but if it so good why buy F-15EX?

Stealth imposes limitations on warl load, AAM also fail, no one says it is not useful, but it is not like they pretend stealth aircraft are detected, it is harder, but detectable and once they use their missiles these fail too, so yes F-22 can face Su-30MKIs in BVR combat.

Suppose 3 F-22 versus 20 Su-30MKI.

will F-22 shoot down all Su-30MKI? in a credible battle they might down let us say 12 with AIM-120Ds but after that it is BVR combat, add Drones launch drones and some AIM-120D are going to hunt drones.


I do not think even F-22 has an easy life. Combat means at the end BVR combat specially if F-22 has to down Cruise missiles and drones

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

F-22 has a lot of propaganda, stealth is signature reduction, it is useful, but if it so good why buy F-15EX?

Stealth imposes limitations on warl load, AAM also fail, no one says it is not useful, but it is not like they pretend stealth aircraft are detected, it is harder, but detectable and once they use their missiles these fail too, so yes F-22 can face Su-30MKIs in BVR combat.

Suppose 3 F-22 versus 20 Su-30MKI.

will F-22 shoot down all Su-30MKI? in a credible battle they might down let us say 12 with AIM-120Ds but after that it is BVR combat, add Drones launch drones and some AIM-120D are going to hunt drones.


I do not think even F-22 has an easy life. Combat means at the end BVR combat specially if F-22 has to down Cruise missiles and drones

stealth jets hv first see nd first fire BVR advantage...thats it (i know it can be deciding factor, if opponent pilot dont know how to protect its jets from enemy BVR missiles). coz at some distance enemy aircraft nd radars can detect them. so i dont think 1 F22 can counter 2-3 su 30 mki, if both r moving toward each other. coz su 30 mki hv jamming pods, chaff nd flair to deal with enemy BVR missiles. nd nobody knows exactly which distance a f22 can track su 30 mki nd which distance su 30 mki can track f22 with its radar nd infrared sensor.

 

[Binayak95]

F-22 has a lot of propaganda, stealth is signature reduction, it is useful, but if it so good why buy F-15EX?

Stealth imposes limitations on warl load, AAM also fail, no one says it is not useful, but it is not like they pretend stealth aircraft are detected, it is harder, but detectable and once they use their missiles these fail too, so yes F-22 can face Su-30MKIs in BVR combat.

Suppose 3 F-22 versus 20 Su-30MKI.

will F-22 shoot down all Su-30MKI? in a credible battle they might down let us say 12 with AIM-120Ds but after that it is BVR combat, add Drones launch drones and some AIM-120D are going to hunt drones.


I do not think even F-22 has an easy life. Combat means at the end BVR combat specially if F-22 has to down Cruise missiles and drones

If youre going to add unmanned wingman drones, then add EA 18Gs from a carrier

Why F15EX, because its very difficult to maintain and service fifth gen birds, and most combat scenariors dont need stealth.

And its Pentagon, they spend more of printer ink annually than we do procuring fighters.