IAF's Sukhoi Su-30MKI

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

F-22 has a lot of propaganda, stealth is signature reduction, it is useful, but if it so good why buy F-15EX?

Stealth imposes limitations on warl load, AAM also fail, no one says it is not useful, but it is not like they pretend stealth aircraft are detected, it is harder, but detectable and once they use their missiles these fail too, so yes F-22 can face Su-30MKIs in BVR combat.

Suppose 3 F-22 versus 20 Su-30MKI.

will F-22 shoot down all Su-30MKI? in a credible battle they might down let us say 12 with AIM-120Ds but after that it is BVR combat, add Drones launch drones and some AIM-120D are going to hunt drones.


I do not think even F-22 has an easy life. Combat means at the end BVR combat specially if F-22 has to down Cruise missiles and drones

stealth jets hv first see nd first fire BVR advantage...thats it (i know it can be deciding factor, if opponent pilot dont know how to protect its jets from enemy BVR missiles). coz at some distance enemy aircraft nd radars can detect them. so i dont think 1 F22 can counter 2-3 su 30 mki, if both r moving toward each other. coz su 30 mki hv jamming pods, chaff nd flair to deal with enemy BVR missiles. nd nobody knows exactly which distance a f22 can track su 30 mki nd which distance su 30 mki can track f22 with its radar nd infrared sensor.

 

[Binayak95]

F-22 has a lot of propaganda, stealth is signature reduction, it is useful, but if it so good why buy F-15EX?

Stealth imposes limitations on warl load, AAM also fail, no one says it is not useful, but it is not like they pretend stealth aircraft are detected, it is harder, but detectable and once they use their missiles these fail too, so yes F-22 can face Su-30MKIs in BVR combat.

Suppose 3 F-22 versus 20 Su-30MKI.

will F-22 shoot down all Su-30MKI? in a credible battle they might down let us say 12 with AIM-120Ds but after that it is BVR combat, add Drones launch drones and some AIM-120D are going to hunt drones.


I do not think even F-22 has an easy life. Combat means at the end BVR combat specially if F-22 has to down Cruise missiles and drones

If youre going to add unmanned wingman drones, then add EA 18Gs from a carrier

Why F15EX, because its very difficult to maintain and service fifth gen birds, and most combat scenariors dont need stealth.

And its Pentagon, they spend more of printer ink annually than we do procuring fighters.

 

[Binayak95]

stealth jets hv first see nd first fire BVR advantage...thats it (i know it can be deciding factor, if opponent pilot dont know how to protect its jets from enemy BVR missiles). coz at some distance enemy aircraft nd radars can detect them. so i dont think 1 F22 can counter 2-3 su 30 mki, if both r moving toward each other. coz su 30 mki hv jamming pods, chaff nd flair to deal with enemy BVR missiles. nd nobody knows exactly which distance a f22 can track su 30 mki nd which distance su 30 mki can track f22 with its radar nd infrared sensor.

... IRST se kill chain kaise banaoge bhaisaab?

And you think SAP518 will jamm an AESA?
If that was the case why did we go for NG Jammers from DRDO and why did the USN create an entirely new dedicated EW aircraft in the shape of EA18G to even attempt to defeat modern day AESA radars.

 

[E-195]

If youre going to add unmanned wingman drones, then add EA 18Gs from a carrier

Why F15EX, because its very difficult to maintain and service fifth gen birds, and most combat scenariors dont need stealth.

And its Pentagon, they spend more of printer ink annually than we do procuring fighters.

until there is a real fight it is hard to know, to be honest, but for what we can see in modern wars it seems drones add the numbers that are needed to beat stealth fighters because steal fighters carry few weapons.

Propaganda says stealth keeps you safe, but radars do detect stealth to do it better you need more radars and more powerful radars, but since stealth fighters are limited by the number and size of air to air missiles then drones and speed will reduce the effectiveness of stealth aircraft.

Advantage of Su-30MKI it can carry a lot of missiles and they are not limited by size as the weapons bays of stealth aircraft.


I think the direction will be saturate the sky with drones in a way the few missiles F-35 or J-20 will be not enough to fight them,, but only time will tell

 

[Blademaster]

how do you solve the issue of losing air speed in a turning fight?
Not even some mythical HALO fighter with ion engines (or whatever they use) can negate friction and airspeed loss in maneuvers.

What you can do is decrease the amount of time it retakes to regain same speed and altitude as before - but wouldn't you rather train the pilots to enter combat at a higher altitude and airspeed to begin with?

It is called having more power in reserve to help you manage the recovery of air speed in a turning fight.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

... IRST se kill chain kaise banaoge bhaisaab?

And you think SAP518 will jamm an AESA?
If that was the case why did we go for NG Jammers from DRDO and why did the USN create an entirely new dedicated EW aircraft in the shape of EA18G to even attempt to defeat modern day AESA radars.

i m talking about IRST tracking...su 30 mki hv 100 km range. so dont know at what range su 30 mki IRST can detect f22 raptor body nd engine heats, but it will definitely track it in a distance. meanwhile su 30 mki hv MICA IR, r73 nd python 5 WVR missile integrated, so it hv 30-40 km range missiles to kill. yeah it is very tough to survive till that range against a f22. but more su 30 mki can make higher chance to come closer to f22.
i m also talking about new DRDO NG jammers, which build from GAN. aesa radars didnt mean they r jam proof. they can be jammed or confused, but harder to do compare to pesa radars. look at jamming pods of other countries like russia, america (may be they r using GAN), china, france etc r using old jammers pods...which is build from GAA (gallium arsenide). if they cant jam aesa radars, these countries still not using GAA based jammer pods. even if they cant jam enemy aesa radars, they can definitely confuse them.
In f18 growler case, i guess it made for jamming hord/many of enemy aircrafts. meanwhile su 30 mki type fighters jammers can jam only some enemy aesa radars. (these r my understanding, so cant say my claim is 100% scientific nd truth).

 

[Bleh]

i m talking about IRST tracking...su 30 mki hv 100 km range. so dont know at what range su 30 mki IRST can detect f22 raptor body nd engine heats, but it will definitely track it in a distance. meanwhile su 30 mki hv MICA IR, r73 nd python 5 WVR missile integrated, so it hv 30-40 km range missiles to kill. yeah it is very tough to survive till that range against a f22. but more su 30 mki can make higher chance to come closer to f22.
i m also talking about new DRDO NG jammers, which build from GAN. aesa radars didnt mean they r jam proof. they can be jammed or confused, but harder to do compare to pesa radars. look at jamming pods of other countries like russia, america (may be they r using GAN), china, france etc r using old jammers pods...which is build from GAA (gallium arsenide). if they cant jam aesa radars, these countries still not using GAA based jammer pods. even if they cant jam enemy aesa radars, they can definitely confuse them.
In f18 growler case, i guess it made for jamming hord/many of enemy aircrafts. meanwhile su 30 mki type fighters jammers can jam only some enemy aesa radars. (these r my understanding, so cant say my claim is 100% scientific nd truth).

That's where LOAL BVRs come in... Search & destroy mode can be game changers.

I also envision in future IRST mounted & IR-BVR carrying smaller & stealthier drones, far ahead of the larger signatured air-craft guiding it.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

No - its not. the skills translate extremely well to defeating a pitbulled AIM120

Read again I said dogfight is a thing of past. I don't oppose possessing dogfighting skills.

 

[E-195]

Read again I said dogfight is a thing of past. I don't oppose possessing dogfighting skills.

dogfights are not things of the past, they are simply less desired