IAF's Sukhoi Su-30MKI

stealth jets hv first see nd first fire BVR advantage...thats it (i know it can be deciding factor, if opponent pilot dont know how to protect its jets from enemy BVR missiles). coz at some distance enemy aircraft nd radars can detect them. so i dont think 1 F22 can counter 2-3 su 30 mki, if both r moving toward each other. coz su 30 mki hv jamming pods, chaff nd flair to deal with enemy BVR missiles. nd nobody knows exactly which distance a f22 can track su 30 mki nd which distance su 30 mki can track f22 with its radar nd infrared sensor.
... IRST se kill chain kaise banaoge bhaisaab?

And you think SAP518 will jamm an AESA?
If that was the case why did we go for NG Jammers from DRDO and why did the USN create an entirely new dedicated EW aircraft in the shape of EA18G to even attempt to defeat modern day AESA radars.
 
If youre going to add unmanned wingman drones, then add EA 18Gs from a carrier 🤷

Why F15EX, because its very difficult to maintain and service fifth gen birds, and most combat scenariors dont need stealth.

And its Pentagon, they spend more of printer ink annually than we do procuring fighters.
until there is a real fight it is hard to know, to be honest, but for what we can see in modern wars it seems drones add the numbers that are needed to beat stealth fighters because steal fighters carry few weapons.

Propaganda says stealth keeps you safe, but radars do detect stealth to do it better you need more radars and more powerful radars, but since stealth fighters are limited by the number and size of air to air missiles then drones and speed will reduce the effectiveness of stealth aircraft.

Advantage of Su-30MKI it can carry a lot of missiles and they are not limited by size as the weapons bays of stealth aircraft.


I think the direction will be saturate the sky with drones in a way the few missiles F-35 or J-20 will be not enough to fight them,, but only time will tell
 
how do you solve the issue of losing air speed in a turning fight?
Not even some mythical HALO fighter with ion engines (or whatever they use) can negate friction and airspeed loss in maneuvers.

What you can do is decrease the amount of time it retakes to regain same speed and altitude as before - but wouldn't you rather train the pilots to enter combat at a higher altitude and airspeed to begin with?

It is called having more power in reserve to help you manage the recovery of air speed in a turning fight.
 
... IRST se kill chain kaise banaoge bhaisaab?

And you think SAP518 will jamm an AESA?
If that was the case why did we go for NG Jammers from DRDO and why did the USN create an entirely new dedicated EW aircraft in the shape of EA18G to even attempt to defeat modern day AESA radars.
i m talking about IRST tracking...su 30 mki hv 100 km range. so dont know at what range su 30 mki IRST can detect f22 raptor body nd engine heats, but it will definitely track it in a distance. meanwhile su 30 mki hv MICA IR, r73 nd python 5 WVR missile integrated, so it hv 30-40 km range missiles to kill. yeah it is very tough to survive till that range against a f22. but more su 30 mki can make higher chance to come closer to f22.
i m also talking about new DRDO NG jammers, which build from GAN. aesa radars didnt mean they r jam proof. they can be jammed or confused, but harder to do compare to pesa radars. look at jamming pods of other countries like russia, america (may be they r using GAN), china, france etc r using old jammers pods...which is build from GAA (gallium arsenide). if they cant jam aesa radars, these countries still not using GAA based jammer pods. even if they cant jam enemy aesa radars, they can definitely confuse them.
In f18 growler case, i guess it made for jamming hord/many of enemy aircrafts. meanwhile su 30 mki type fighters jammers can jam only some enemy aesa radars. (these r my understanding, so cant say my claim is 100% scientific nd truth😝).
 
i m talking about IRST tracking...su 30 mki hv 100 km range. so dont know at what range su 30 mki IRST can detect f22 raptor body nd engine heats, but it will definitely track it in a distance. meanwhile su 30 mki hv MICA IR, r73 nd python 5 WVR missile integrated, so it hv 30-40 km range missiles to kill. yeah it is very tough to survive till that range against a f22. but more su 30 mki can make higher chance to come closer to f22.
i m also talking about new DRDO NG jammers, which build from GAN. aesa radars didnt mean they r jam proof. they can be jammed or confused, but harder to do compare to pesa radars. look at jamming pods of other countries like russia, america (may be they r using GAN), china, france etc r using old jammers pods...which is build from GAA (gallium arsenide). if they cant jam aesa radars, these countries still not using GAA based jammer pods. even if they cant jam enemy aesa radars, they can definitely confuse them.
In f18 growler case, i guess it made for jamming hord/many of enemy aircrafts. meanwhile su 30 mki type fighters jammers can jam only some enemy aesa radars. (these r my understanding, so cant say my claim is 100% scientific nd truth😝).

That's where LOAL BVRs come in... Search & destroy mode can be game changers.

I also envision in future IRST mounted & IR-BVR carrying smaller & stealthier drones, far ahead of the larger signatured air-craft guiding it.
 
Last edited:
Thursday, October 31 2024 10:57
Marianna Mkrtchyan

Armenia to purchase Su-30MKI Flanker-H fighter from India​

Armenia to purchase Su-30MKI Flanker-H fighter from India

ArmInfo. Is the Russian aeronautics industry starting to pay for its recurring shortcomings? At the end of October 2024, the Armenian Ministry of Defense announced that it had begun negotiations with the Indian aircraft manufacturer HAL to acquire a batch of locally produced Su-30MKI Flanker-H fighters as well as dedicated weapons. In doing so, it intends to cancel the order for eight additional Su-30SM Flanker-Cs that has been pending... for 5 years.

This would be the first contract since India chose to export its own Su-30MKIs, Avions Legendaires reports.

Currently, the Armenian fighter fleet consists of four Sukhoi Su-30SM Flanker-Cs received new in spring 2019 and around fifteen much older Su-25K Frogfoots. However, a few weeks after receiving its fighters, Armenia chose to order eight additional Su-30SMs. Although they were partially paid, up to 70% of the contract, no aircraft have been delivered since. For one simple reason: Sukhoi has not produced any and the only Su-30s to date that have left its factories have been for the needs of Russia itself.

Five years later, it seems that the patience of the Armenians has come to an end. Russia could well lose a customer but also an ally. Armenia has started discussions with HAL around the supply of eight to twelve Su-30MKIs. In fact, Hindustan Aircraft Limited would take over the eight new aircraft, on condition that Sukhoi reimburses the advance, and would upgrade the four current Su-30SMs to the Su-30MKI standard. This would include replacing the original passive electronically scanned array radar with an active Uttam antenna radar.

Known as the "Super 30" program, the negotiations revolve around a batch of Astra 1 long-range air-to-air missiles, Rudram 1 anti-radar missiles, and SAAW guided bombs. All three are of Indian design and production. The size of the contract that is emerging between the two countries is currently unknown.
 
Thursday, October 31 2024 10:57
Marianna Mkrtchyan

Armenia to purchase Su-30MKI Flanker-H fighter from India​

Armenia to purchase Su-30MKI Flanker-H fighter from India

ArmInfo. Is the Russian aeronautics industry starting to pay for its recurring shortcomings? At the end of October 2024, the Armenian Ministry of Defense announced that it had begun negotiations with the Indian aircraft manufacturer HAL to acquire a batch of locally produced Su-30MKI Flanker-H fighters as well as dedicated weapons. In doing so, it intends to cancel the order for eight additional Su-30SM Flanker-Cs that has been pending... for 5 years.

This would be the first contract since India chose to export its own Su-30MKIs, Avions Legendaires reports.

Currently, the Armenian fighter fleet consists of four Sukhoi Su-30SM Flanker-Cs received new in spring 2019 and around fifteen much older Su-25K Frogfoots. However, a few weeks after receiving its fighters, Armenia chose to order eight additional Su-30SMs. Although they were partially paid, up to 70% of the contract, no aircraft have been delivered since. For one simple reason: Sukhoi has not produced any and the only Su-30s to date that have left its factories have been for the needs of Russia itself.

Five years later, it seems that the patience of the Armenians has come to an end. Russia could well lose a customer but also an ally. Armenia has started discussions with HAL around the supply of eight to twelve Su-30MKIs. In fact, Hindustan Aircraft Limited would take over the eight new aircraft, on condition that Sukhoi reimburses the advance, and would upgrade the four current Su-30SMs to the Su-30MKI standard. This would include replacing the original passive electronically scanned array radar with an active Uttam antenna radar.

Known as the "Super 30" program, the negotiations revolve around a batch of Astra 1 long-range air-to-air missiles, Rudram 1 anti-radar missiles, and SAAW guided bombs. All three are of Indian design and production. The size of the contract that is emerging between the two countries is currently unknown.

Can India 100% manufacture Su-30MKIs? IIRC, India still need to import key components from Russia.
 
Can India 100% manufacture Su-30MKIs? IIRC, India still need to import key components from Russia.
Yes india needs Russian components to produce su30s even if su30 is overhauled some Russians get some profit. Although new su30s manufacturer under super Sukhoi program will have 65% indigeneous content. if Armenia precures new su30s it won't be mki.
Armenia needs to Tejas mk1A in more numbers than su30s. It's light category needs much less maintanence than su30s they can keep it in air for much more sorties continuously also costs almost same or abit less than su30. Tejas mk1 took 6 sorties one after another

'Tejas LCA undertook 6 sorties a day. Each mission, lasting for 45 minutes on the lower side to one and half hours, proved the indigenous fighter jet's efficiency in an operational role.
The turnaround time was less than six hours during the exercise'

Ig this is what Armenians need a cost effective with very low operational cost. A good combination of heavy weight upgraded su30s and a light platform Tejas mk1A could achieve air superiority over ajeris if they also manage to succeed in sead & dead missions.
 
I heard it's upgradation of their su30 not purchase of new mki
Armenians had ordered 5 su30s which russia didn't deliver even after 5 years so now talks are going on with hal to make them in india with super su30 upgrades. which will take 3 years at max to roll out first upgraded su30.

They have paid 70% of that 5 su30s contract so they now want Sukhoi to roll out there airframes of indian facilities. They can't get there money back either.

And potentially they could ordered even more su30s for there needs. If they were supposed to buy Tejas which can't be delivered on time they would go for more MKIs. As they have dedicated there weapons purchases from India at this extent I don't think they would consider any other option they don't wanna go in western sides either. Nor they can afford them they're annual defence budget is just 1.7 billion for 2025. Russians are untrustworthy for them and they haven't tried Chinese yet nor I think they will as china supplied jf17s. Left over is Swedish gripen which is also good platform for them and as of now zero indication of that. Second hand/ used rafales were also offered to them but they haven't responded to them yet (weapons limitation would be there obviously they won't handover meteor a2a missile at max mica ng I doubt, no storm shadow cruise missile either) neither they can afford these costly weapons packages along with them.

They have showed interest in india a2g saaw , astra a2a missile, upgrades etc etc.

Along with platform the weapon supply is most crucial for them that's why they are considering india over others also affordability too.
 
Shouldn't we just order su57 instead of upgrading old su30, they will eventually become flying cuisine anyways
We will keep Su-30s for the next 40 years, or basically as long as it takes the air-frame to rust away, same as uncle Sam is doing & will keep doing or the F-15s.

The greatest thing about Su-30 is that it is a supersonic, extremely long distance plane that can carry 10 tonnes of armaments. That is a significant amount, for a plane that can go 3000km on internal fuel at supersonic speeds. That is easily 8-10 big honking A2G missiles that'd make even hardened bunkers go boom.

The Mirage-2000 we used for kargil for eg, has a lift capacity of 4.5 tonnes and can go 1500kms on internal fuel ( which is amazing for a single enginer thing from the 70s but its still no match for the big boy in the stable for lift capacity +range).

Basically, given these attributes of Su-30s, the day it becomes obsolete for air superiority fighter, is the day it becomes the king kong of air-to-ground missions. To keep abrest of modern tech, it means newer avionics & radar suite over time, which is an investment well worth its weight in gold.

The air-to-ground game for a long time has been these F-15s/Su-30 type heavy high speed fighters who have capacity to lift 9-10 tonnes and aunch 8-10 A2G missiles and then bug out against near peer-adversary.
The days of the 'my 4 turbo-prop engines go brrr' heavy bombers is over unless u wanna bomb Boko Haram or Taliban or something and the B1/B2 type heavy stealth bombers simply cost waaaaaaaay too much to maintain for any air force that doesnt have a free money printing press for its government.
And the Straofotress type modern day version of the 'turboprop going brrr' are still only deployed after total destruction of any Air force & air defence of the enemy.

So what do you use to throw missiles & bombs from the air against a near peer adversary who still has an air force & some semblance of air defence, like say Iran being bombed by Israel ?
Answer: the F15 strike eagle or the Su-30MKI.

So the future of Su-30 isnt direct retirement like the MiG-21 or the F16s would be, the future of Su-30 is :
air superiority fighter ( for next 15 years) ----> ariel bomb truck till the airframe rusts into dust ( another 30 years).
This is why the Indian govt is wise to invest in Super Sukhois. because even when they go obsolete, they will still be the critical player in carrying out Balakot type of strikes.
 

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