Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Anupu]

well operation Sindoor throws a huge spanner into the claim that chinku is ahead of us in tech.
Look at how badly their ADS failed compared to us. And its to be expected - ADS is a multi-system instrument, involving missiles, radar and tracker array - one finds the target, relays to the missile, missile locks on to target and then is guided by tracker array.

its MUCH more difficult to get competent in ALL 3 at the same time is probably why Chinese ADS is a hunk of junk - we meanwhile took piece-meal option. We first made missile.Then mated it with existing ADS. then we made radar, mated it with existing ADS...now we are working on tracker.

When you develop multi-layered system piece-meal, while using proven technology to jigsaw into it, you take longer, but you mitigate risk far better as you can isolate and develop individual system without compromising ADS needs.

One thing and I have said this earlier elsewhere as well. The reason for our success was our AD was our networking capabilities our integrated C4I networks like IACCS and Akashteer. Along with decent amount of platforms we have.

Pakistanis didn’t have a good networking infrastructure. They may have some collaborative targeting but it was not as extensive or integrated as ours.

While same can’t be said for the Chinese. They have what they call the ICP Integrated Command Platform. It integrates all three forces air defence, isr, electronic warfare basically bringing everything on the same platform.

Now this system was built top down and quite rapidly. Many reports have come out that Chinese troops barely understand how it works and it is made without thier consultation.

We have taken a more bottoms up approach where we are developing diversified systems like IACCS, Akashteer, project Sanjay, project Shakti the Trishul BMS, Trigun system. We are slowly integrating them into a combined c4I system

Anyways what I am trying to say is this. We should not assume that Chinese systems will perform exactly as they did in the Pakistani hands. Although I do believe there are some glaring gaps that can’t be solved with just better networking. When used under the Chinese Integrated command platform. The performance of these systems may be better.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

One thing and I have said this earlier elsewhere as well. The reason for our success was our AD was our networking capabilities our integrated C4I networks like IACCS and Akashteer. Along with decent amount of platforms we have.

Pakistanis didn’t have a good networking infrastructure. They may have some collaborative targeting but it was not as extensive or integrated as ours.

While same can’t be said for the Chinese. They have what they call the ICP Integrated Command Platform. It integrates all three forces air defence, isr, electronic warfare basically bringing everything on the same platform.

Now this system was built top down and quite rapidly. Many reports have come out that Chinese troops barely understand how it works and it is made without thier consultation.

We have taken a more bottoms up approach where we are developing diversified systems like IACCS, Akashteer, project Sanjay, project Shakti the Trishul BMS, Trigun system. We are slowly integrating them into a combined c4I system

Anyways what I am trying to say is this. We should not assume that Chinese systems will perform exactly as they did in the Pakistani hands. Although I do believe there are some glaring gaps that can’t be solved with just better networking. When used under the Chinese Integrated command platform. The performance of these systems may be better.

Well one thing we know from indoor, is that chinese ADS will struggle no matter what, if we swarm-launch brahmos. Which means their mega dam they wanna build on Brahmaputra in medog county is a huge lemon. Look at geography of SE Tibet. It's not flat but kashmir like in deep mountain valleys and steep ridges. There are only 3 possible routes for China to put power cables down to connect this dam to their country's grid. So that means, we can literally shut down 20,000 mega watts of electricity at will, without even touching the dam: good luck putting ADS around 100s of kms of power cable and transformer relay stations in middle of nowhere.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

Not sure about quantity
Our bases are spread out throughout the country
In western bases our numbers might not be much higher than porks

bro let count both countries aircrafts (pre operation sindoor)...here we didnt include 3 nd 3.5 genration fighter of both countries. coz they r not used in air to air fight, but mainly bombing in unsecured enemy air space or from standoff distance. so they mainly act like bomber nd they r near their retirement also.

India air power:-
1:- rafale = 36.
2:- su 30 mki = 260.
3:- tejas 1 = 40.
4:- mirage 2000 = 57.
5:- mig 29 k = 69.
here we r not including jaguar nd i think we retired all mig 21. beside this no tejas mark 1A nd 12 additional su 30 mki (dont know we sign this deal or not).
total number = 462 fighters approx.

pakistan air power :-
1:- j10 C = 36 (although some claim they order 25 j10).
2:- f16 = 75.
3:- jf17 = 149+50 = 199 (they order 50 jf17 mark 3, but we dont know how many they got now)
total number = 310 fighter approx.

conclusion = india hv 1.5 times more 4 nd 4.5 genration fighters. keep in mind we didnt include india ordered 83 tejas mark 1a nd 12 su 30 mki in this. but we include j10 in 36 numbers, although some sources tells that Pakistan order 25 j10. beside this we added all 50 jf17 block 3, from which we dont know how many pakistan delivered right now.

about our aircraft deployed in chinese/bangladesh/myanmar border. most our fighters hv air refueling capabilities, so they can be shifted from chinese border to pakistan side. nd later return to chinese border. that kind of practice indian air force did in many exercises. keep in mind at chinese border we hv also sams (for defense), cruise nd ballistic missiles (for offence) also. so its not like our air space is open in other borders, even without our aircrafts deploy there.

southern state bases dont need guarding aircraft. they can all deployed in north or central india against pakistan war. north india aircrafts can attack both side of borders. only problems with east nd north east india deployed aircrafts. but they can also shift toward pakistan by refueling by air (air tankers) nd ground air bases. we should make more highways, which can operate fighter aircrafts also. which is very helpful in case of our forward air bases get destroyed.

 

[Tumba]

F-35 is obviously not going to be selected by IAF…

simply because no Indian weapons will be allowed to integrate by USA, this closes its case.

SU57 is obviously not anywhere close to RCS of F35 probably closer to Rafale with clean configuration. In future we will definitely get enough access to Rafale to integrate Indian weapons.

So SU57 doesnt offer much over Rafale for IAF, only way SU57 will be bought if Russians offer Turbine Inlet metallurgy they have mastered because India is not going to get it from French

 

[Ajatshatru]

Constructive criticism is essential for progress—criticize the Indian military where necessary, and commend it where it performs well.



View: https://youtu.be/xoN6rARVmAY?si=gj7vUd3I-2V6OzSk

 

[Ajatshatru]

bro let count both countries aircrafts (pre operation sindoor)...here we didnt include 3 nd 3.5 genration fighter of both countries. coz they r not used in air to air fight, but mainly bombing in unsecured enemy air space or from standoff distance. so they mainly act like bomber nd they r near their retirement also.

India air power:-
1:- rafale = 36.
2:- su 30 mki = 260.
3:- tejas 1 = 40.
4:- mirage 2000 = 57.
5:- mig 29 k = 69.
here we r not including jaguar nd i think we retired all mig 21. beside this no tejas mark 1A nd 12 additional su 30 mki (dont know we sign this deal or not).
total number = 462 fighters approx.

pakistan air power :-
1:- j10 C = 36 (although some claim they order 25 j10).
2:- f16 = 75.
3:- jf17 = 149+50 = 199 (they order 50 jf17 mark 3, but we dont know how many they got now)
total number = 310 fighter approx.

conclusion = india hv 1.5 times more 4 nd 4.5 genration fighters. keep in mind we didnt include india ordered 83 tejas mark 1a nd 12 su 30 mki in this. but we include j10 in 36 numbers, although some sources tells that Pakistan order 25 j10. beside this we added all 50 jf17 block 3, from which we dont know how many pakistan delivered right now.

about our aircraft deployed in chinese/bangladesh/myanmar border. most our fighters hv air refueling capabilities, so they can be shifted from chinese border to pakistan side. nd later return to chinese border. that kind of practice indian air force did in many exercises. keep in mind at chinese border we hv also sams (for defense), cruise nd ballistic missiles (for offence) also. so its not like our air space is open in other borders, even without our aircrafts deploy there.

southern state bases dont need guarding aircraft. they can all deployed in north or central india against pakistan war. north india aircrafts can attack both side of borders. only problems with east nd north east india deployed aircrafts. but they can also shift toward pakistan by refueling by air (air tankers) nd ground air bases. we should make more highways, which can operate fighter aircrafts also. which is very helpful in case of our forward air bases get destroyed.

lackluster attitude of the Indian Air Force and MOD is deeply frustrating. Maintaining fewer than 45 squadrons is a serious failure that compromises national security. In the event of a two-front war, this shortfall could cost thousands of Indian lives if not urgently addressed

 

[FalconSlayers]

IAF fighters launched precision missiles that struck Pakistan four times on May 10, with Rafale-launched SCALP missiles and SU-30 MKI-launched missiles taking out the northern air command-control network at Nur Khan airbase in Chaklala in the first strike itself, the people added.

The last strike was carried out at Jacobabad and Bholari air bases but by that time Pakistan had folded and was seeking US intervention for cease fire.

India’s S-400 air defence system in Adampur went into action no less than 11 times during Operation Sindoor and destroyed a Pakistani SAAB-2000 airborne early warning system as far as 315 kilometres away deep in Pakistan.

Indian Air Force also has proof of its missiles having downed one C-130 J medium lift aircraft, a JF-17 and two F-16 fighters on ground and in the air, they added.

According to the people cited above, on May 10, the Indian strikes took out a Chinese-made LY-80 air defence system using a HARPY kamikaze drone at Lahore, while an Indian missile took out the prized HQ-9 (Chinese version of S-300) at Malir in Karachi.

It's outrageous how India doesn't have own air-launched cruise missiles simply because we never had any programme for building them at all. All we have is French SCALPs on 2 squadron Rafales and heavy BrahMos on a few dozen Flanker airframes. Even today it is HAL making an air launched cruise missile as it's own internal project (CATS Hunter) and not DRDO.

It will be hilarious that Indian Navy fighter jets will have indigenous cruise missiles (although anti-ship) while Air Force will be stuck with heavy BrahMos and the imported SCALPs if CATS Hunters are not upto the mark.

 

[Migflug]

Constructive criticism is essential for progress—criticize the Indian military where necessary, and commend it where it performs well.



View: https://youtu.be/xoN6rARVmAY?si=gj7vUd3I-2V6OzSk

Super Sukhoi was sabotaged to give an undue advantage to Rafale. On top of it, management is non existent in the MoD

 

[ArjunMK1A]

It's outrageous how India doesn't have own air-launched cruise missiles simply because we never had any programme for building them at all. All we have is French SCALPs on 2 squadron Rafales and heavy BrahMos on a few dozen Flanker airframes. Even today it is HAL making an air launched cruise missile as it's own internal project (CATS Hunter) and not DRDO.

It will be hilarious that Indian Navy fighter jets will have indigenous cruise missiles (although anti-ship) while Air Force will be stuck with heavy BrahMos and the imported SCALPs if CATS Hunters are not upto the mark.


View attachment 37095

NG was supposed to be Air launched Cruise Missile which can be hosted by every platform like Tejas, Mirage 2000, Mig29. I remember I saw them in Defence Expo 2017 in chennai. Till now nothing big news came about this project.

Also ITCM will also have Air launched variant.

NASM MR if worked well. May be it will be modified to work in different roles. Also Rudram 2 will do the same job as Air launched Ballistic Missile. CATS Hunter as stealthy CM.

 

[Kontakt5]

Su-57 strength lies in its 360 degree radar coverage with 4 x band arrays and 2 l band ones for stealth detection.

Not to forget the powerful engine and recent testing with proper 2d vectored flat nozzle.

Sure stealth is not optimal vs j20 or f-35 but it is vastly superior in range ,performance ,weapons it can carry in internal bay,active radar coverage.

The stealth part can be dealt with for some degree with superior RAM application and using frontal radar blocker.Anyways with internal weapon load the frontal rcs claimed by Russians is .1 metre square and should be exponentially better than rafale with external load and drop tanks.

We have no better options,get 2-3 squadrons before we make amca by 2035.

No the best option is to not buy 2-3 squadrons of foreign export equipment, and risk sabotaging or delaying domestic options. When money is spent for these 2-3 squadrons, the money that could've gone into promoting indigenous equipment is taken away. Why is there an obsession to match pak in equipment type? Like I said Paf J-35 could be super fighter, but they are still easy targets on the ground and in hangars. India strongest asset is powerful air defence network and missile technology. Strengthening and deveploying more domestic air defence and ground strike missiles can counter stealth fighters.

Despite being a military dictatorship pak can barely afford fleet of J-10CE. Only have like 20 jets. How many do you think bankrupt failed state can afford J-35E ? At most 10, that will be an insignificant number. India always win in the long game against paf, so what if they get stealth aircraft a few years ahead of India? They can only afford 10 of them. IAF in the future will have complete overmatch over paf, just need patience and investment, and not fall for foreign exports again.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

No the best option is to not buy 2-3 squadrons of foreign export equipment, and risk sabotaging or delaying domestic options. When money is spent for these 2-3 squadrons, the money that could've gone into promoting indigenous equipment is taken away. Why is there an obsession to match pak in equipment type? Like I said Paf J-35 could be super fighter, but they are still easy targets on the ground and in hangars. India strongest asset is powerful air defence network and missile technology. Strengthening and deveploying more domestic air defence and ground strike missiles can counter stealth fighters.

Despite being a military dictatorship pak can barely afford fleet of J-10CE. Only have like 20 jets. How many do you think bankrupt failed state can afford J-35E ? At most 10, that will be an insignificant number. India always win in the long game against paf, so what if they get stealth aircraft a few years ahead of India? They can only afford 10 of them. IAF in the future will have complete overmatch over paf, just need patience and investment, and not fall for foreign exports again.

Indeed true that a limited purchase of foreign 5th gen FA would give MoD a false sense of security that might delay AMCA. I mean look at how AMCA funding has been upheld till recently.

Without a 5th gen fighter, there will be a hunger in the Indian establishment to see timely completion of AMCA. Especially if the Pakis get J35.