Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Gyyaan]

fair enough....but still chinese didnt make a 5 genration engine for their j20 nd j35. so even its stealthy, its old engine hv no suppressors for engine heats. nd their radars can be not fully utilised its capability with less power with older copied chinese engines. if radar isnt that powerful, its stealth advantage of come closer to enemy fighters goes down (if enemy fighter hv capable radars nd infrared sensor/EOT).
i dont think except for america, anyone build a 6 genration fighters near 2040. may be chinese build it, but i highly doubt its as capable 6 genration like americans. may be a 5.5 genration fighter.

Chinese have already compensated the absence of VCE to some extent by making their sixth gens Larger(more fuel storage equals more range) with higher thrust and electrical power (with extra engine).
It also has drawbacks like being hard to maneuver extra, weight of 3rd engine but the 3rd Intake may also be used for cooling purpose imo thus reducing the cooling requirements to some extent.
it's a weird quasi sniper-bomber type of platform.(PL-17 OR larger SFDR type AAM all can be hidden inside IWB along with ARMs and YJ-21 type AShMs)
Remains to be seen how this works against other VLO fighters and it's cost to performance ratio.

 

[Tumba]

NSA going to visit Russia soon to push for early delivery of rest of 2 S400 systems and likely on agenda AL-51F-1 (Izdeliye 30) Russians are more or less struggling to fund the development it seems,
SU 57 MKI looks likely with license manufacturing if we get our hands on TOT for Turbine inlet section of I30 which as per reports Russians are able to achieve around 1800 C for prolonged time,
We are struggling in Turbine Inlet specifically for Kaveri.

before AMCA going into production by 2035 we can likely see parallel production line for SU57 MKI.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Chinese have already compensated the absence of VCE to some extent by making their sixth gens Larger(more fuel storage equals more range) with higher thrust and electrical power (with extra engine).
It also has drawbacks like being hard to maneuver extra, weight of 3rd engine but the 3rd Intake may also be used for cooling purpose imo thus reducing the cooling requirements to some extent.
it's a weird quasi sniper-bomber type of platform.(PL-17 OR larger SFDR type AAM all can be hidden inside IWB along with ARMs and YJ-21 type AShMs)
Remains to be seen how this works against other VLO fighters and it's cost to performance ratio.

Reminds me of this recent article written by the current Chief of Defence Staff Gen Chauhan:-

Tactics Led Force Modernisation​

Tactics Led Force Modernisation

Clausewitz in 'On War' has rightly said, that 'Every age has its kind of war, its limiting conditions, and its peculiar preconceptions.

bharatshakti.in

He says the current paradigm in Indian defence modernization and procurement planning is of technology led modernization. Under that framework, IAF ASQR for a 6th gen fighter would have explicitly mentioned a VCE. So an alternate approach like the Chinese one you mention, wouldn't ever have been pursued by the Indian defence apparatus.

Only in the paradigm of tactics led modernization can a system not only come up with but then also actually implement ideas like this Chinese one you described.

Do read, this is the core issue of a lot of our current weapons development programs, the so called delay and resulting capability gaps. This new paradigm can correct all these flaws. Because under this framework, or defence forces won't just read brochures of the latest foreign mil tech and then give requirements and then sit and abuse DRDO for not catching up to Western technological levels and producing a similar weapon to the latest Western one.
They'll instead look at Indian technology readiness level and build not just tactics but also a novel Indian weapon system that can be made in India without any further technological development. A fusion of new weapon and tactics that can present an asymmetric counter to the latest and greatest enemy technology like a 5th or 6th gen fighter for which we don't have technological readiness to present a symmetrical counter on time.

I'm genuinely ecstatic that our nation's top brass is actually thinking these things right now. Makes me hopeful for the future of our Military Industrial Complex

 

[Kontakt5]

lol...so now u shift ur points from "junk fighter" to now "not that good 5 genration fighter" . did anyone here is saying su57 is comparable with f35 or f22 raptor? atleast not on paper strength. do chinese j20 or j35 is comparable to f35 or f22 on paper? so why we need F35 level capable fighter (specially when we hv no option). american never provide us source code to integrate our missiles etc. even if they agreed they will not ready to integrate F35 with our other fighters (specially russian) or s400. that mean if we will using F35 on a operation, we hv to neither use our s400 or neither russian fighters. coz they can treat each other enemy assets.
we need limited su 57 (36-40 approx) to counter pakistan upcoming j35. coz we cant counter chinese 200-300 j20 with only some fighters. for that we hv to make AMCA in good numbers. but it will take its sweet time, so we r in hurry to buy a 5 genration fighter. even a half cooked 5 genration like su 57 is good enough to deal with chinese half cooked 5 genration like j20 or j35.
dont think in a 5 genration fighters fight only better stealth technology play its role. beside this sensors, jamming capabilities, bvr missiles quality, pilot capabilities, defensive mechanism like chaff/flair quality etc also play its role for final result.
biggest advantage of buying su57 over f35 is its custom ability nd not interference from its buyer country. previously our IAF was planning to counter chinese aircrafts with rafale. if su 57 proof itself more capable than rafale to IAF, then they should definitely buy it for stop gap.
In su 57 case,,,we can integrate our AMCA technology with it later. we integrate france, some europe nd israeli weapons/system on su 30. so definitely we can integrate other countries weapons nd systems with su57 also, even if we hv no AMCA derivatives of that weapon/system.

america pampers pakistan time to time with IMF loans nd providing them money for different reasons. they r not trust worthy in case of pakistan. coz pakistan is their dog. which they can use against afganistan, iran nd india. so they will never want that pakistan get hardly kicked by indians.

My point was not shifted, merely calling the su-57 a 4.5gen implies it's junk especially when it was designed from the ground up to be a 5th gen aircraft by the Russians. I have no idea if the J20 or J35 is comparable to the F35 or F22 on paper. What I do know is that the Americans have explicitly started to train with F-35's as aggressors for the J-20. But have not set them up in a role for the Su-57. Actions speak louder than words right? I'm merely observing the actions of the USA. NONE of US have special access information to ANY 5th gen Fighter aircraft of ANY NATION. Therefore there is no point trying to compare sensors and capabilities if we know nothing. We can only observe what countries do in response. YOU may not believe in the USA. BUT they are the greatest air force by far in technology and equipment, THEY can judge if the Su-57 is junk or serious threat. Using F/A-18 to simulate the Su-57 doesn't inspire confidence in the aircraft does it? ESPECIALLY because the F/A-18 is a 40 YEAR OLD AIRCRAFT! Designed BEFORE the collapse of the USSR!

DO YOU KNOW WHO ELSE KNOWS ABOUT THE SU-57 CAPABILITIES?? THE IAF. AND THEY DROPPED OUT OF THE FGFA. One of the concerns was lack of capabilities!!! JUST LOOK AT THE ACTIONS.

I'M NOT arguing for India to buy F-35. I THINK THAT's ALSO THE WRONG MOVE. PAK J-35 Can be countered with S-400. And Layered Integrated Air defence. You see how pak airbases got vaporized during Operation Sindoor? Don't even need to kill them in the air. FIGHTERS are most vulnerable on the ground. will easily destroy J-35 while in pak Hangars! They have ZERO strategic depth. J-35 is a waste of money for paks. The Media hyping them up as big threat are stupid. India has not made any emergency purchase even with all the stupid media saying the IAF should buy stopgap. BUYING stopgap is a TRAP.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Man! I still can't seem to wrap my mind around with where this MRFA Tender is progressing towards!

Will this Tender even happen in the first place? Like Seriously?
Will we end up scraping the tender altogether like we did with the original MMRCA tender and go for an off the shelf purchase of a limited numbers of 36 or more Rafales from the French?
WHAT IS EVEN THE END GOAL?

It is a well established fact that the most logical choice in MMRCA 2.0/MRFA at the current moment is the Dassault Rafale from both an economical as well as a geopolitical point of view. Considering we already have 36 Rafales in the Indian Airforce and now our Navy is slated to add 26 Rafale-Ms to its air-wing, also we have invested a lot in the infrastructure for Rafale too, it makes perfect sense to go ahead and select it over any other European, American or Russian bird. MMRCA is necessary if we want to meet our squadron requirements.

If we want to truly fight a Two-Front war against China and Pakistan, then we better fastrack this tender or I am afraid that we are going to see some bad days ahead, I foresee a conflict with China somewhere in the near future. But considering how bad the political unrest is in Pakistan and conflict among internal elements (Balochistan being a prime example) I do not see how Pakistan can afford to fight against India or mount any sort of meaning assault, only China will be the one which will give us true competition in a war.

Pakistan is no longer a competitor with us, Operation Sindhoor has already exposed a lot of Gaps and Shortfalls in the Pakistan Military especially their Chinese Air Defence Systems like HQ-9 which have fared miserably against our missile strikes. Yes they will be better prepared the next time and will fill the gaps in their air defence capabilities but we will use new measures and techniques the next time we conduct another operation against them. We have learnt a lot from Operation Sindhoor and we will be sure to exploit every valuable lesson which we have got from this conflict.

If in the worst case we have no choice but to scrap MMRCA 2.0, then we should just go for an off the shelf Purchase of atleast 50 Rafales (Whatever may be the ideal number), and utilise the remaining cash in our indigenous programs like AMCA, Tejas MK-II, GHATAK, TEDBF, CATS Warrior, missile programs like hypersonic missiles etc to expedite their development time and fastrack their acquisition.

Any one heard of this new news ?
Asli teja kaun hai ? Mark kidhar hai.

what is this new drama? Of india and Japan development and Jv of sixth gen fighter?
Many porki channels are shitting their pants. About it .

I don’t know what we should support. Naye naye dhol baj rahe hai . Abhi f35 vs su57 vs lca hua nahi tha ab ye naya drama. F xx
Ab hum kis topic pe lade yaha forum per?

All of sudden so many fighter options and none at the same time .

I suspect that Japan and India co-developing a 6G fighter is wishful thinking. Japan is already part of GCAP. With GCAP Japan has been clear that it does not want partners joining who are likely to compromise the project holding to schedule. Japan plans to replace its F2 fighters mid-2030's with a 6G aircraft.

Why would Japan have any interest in a joint venture to develop a 6G fighter with India, known for massive delays in its fighter development projects?

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

My point was not shifted, merely calling the su-57 a 4.5gen implies it's junk especially when it was designed from the ground up to be a 5th gen aircraft by the Russians. I have no idea if the J20 or J35 is comparable to the F35 or F22 on paper. What I do know is that the Americans have explicitly started to train with F-35's as aggressors for the J-20. But have not set them up in a role for the Su-57. Actions speak louder than words right? I'm merely observing the actions of the USA. NONE of US have special access information to ANY 5th gen Fighter aircraft of ANY NATION. Therefore there is no point trying to compare sensors and capabilities if we know nothing. We can only observe what countries do in response. YOU may not believe in the USA. BUT they are the greatest air force by far in technology and equipment, THEY can judge if the Su-57 is junk or serious threat. Using F/A-18 to simulate the Su-57 doesn't inspire confidence in the aircraft does it? ESPECIALLY because the F/A-18 is a 40 YEAR OLD AIRCRAFT! Designed BEFORE the collapse of the USSR!

DO YOU KNOW WHO ELSE KNOWS ABOUT THE SU-57 CAPABILITIES?? THE IAF. AND THEY DROPPED OUT OF THE FGFA. One of the concerns was lack of capabilities!!! JUST LOOK AT THE ACTIONS.

I'M NOT arguing for India to buy F-35. I THINK THAT's ALSO THE WRONG MOVE. PAK J-35 Can be countered with S-400. And Layered Integrated Air defence. You see how pak airbases got vaporized during Operation Sindoor? Don't even need to kill them in the air. FIGHTERS are most vulnerable on the ground. will easily destroy J-35 while in pak Hangars! They have ZERO strategic depth. J-35 is a waste of money for paks. The Media hyping them up as big threat are stupid. India has not made any emergency purchase even with all the stupid media saying the IAF should buy stopgap. BUYING stopgap is a TRAP.

let me clear this....india back down from su57 due to these reasons:-
1:- no development in AL 51 engine that time.
2:- russia was not ready for indian work share in su 57 joint venture.
3:- russia was not ready to share key technologies.
4:- india was not happy with su 57 stealth technology.
if u dont remember....that time nirmala sitaraman defense minister said, they will back again for su 57. if it solve its problem (not exactly same word, but something like that).
i already post u F35 in su57 paint jobs during 2022. look previous comments. again its for visual range fighting exercise of russian fighter. nobody ever mimic heavy weight fighter (su 57) with a medium weight fighter (f18). no sense of doing it. what will they get by doing it??? RCS of su57

 

[Spitfire IX]

RR looks like it has succeeded in developing the starter/power generation system for a 6G engine. They started on the technology more than 10 years ago. If India wants to develop an advanced engine that it could use in a future engine for an Indian 6G fighter, I think it needs to start investing in the R&D involved, doesn't it?

In an aim to be more electric, more intelligent and to harness more power, Rolls-Royce recognised that any future fighter aircraft will have unprecedented levels of electrical power demand and thermal load; all needing to be managed within the context of a stealthy aircraft.

Before the launch of the Tempest programme, Rolls-Royce had already started to address the demands of the future. Back in 2014, the company took on the challenge of designing an electrical starter generator that was fully embedded in the core of a gas turbine engine, now known as the Embedded Electrical Starter Generator or E2SG demonstrator programme.

Conrad Banks, Chief Engineer for Future Programmes at Rolls-Royce said:
“The electrical embedded starter-generator will save space and provide the large amount of electrical power required by future fighters. Existing aircraft engines generate power through a gearbox underneath the engine, which drives a generator. In addition to adding moving parts and complexity, the space required outside the engine for the gearbox and generator makes the airframe larger, which is undesirable in a stealthy platform.”

Rolls-Royce develops world-first electrical technology for next-generation Tempest programme

Rolls-Royce develops world-first electrical technology for next-generation Tempest programme

www.rolls-royce.com

PS That press release was from 2020. I guess the engine for GCAP will not be delayed because of a delay in the electrical starter generator.

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1925592288605987125

For the 2 account dalal here

 

[Brood Father]

View: https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1925592288605987125

For the 2 account dalal here

Don't buy jets from United Snakes of America

 

[Doreamon]

Don't buy jets from United Snakes of America

It ll cost a lot of money for support infra and maintainance for a new fighter jet let alone if it's f35 . We have invested a lot in rafale , that is the way forward. Regarding su57 we do have some background from su 30 . As far as some localisation of chain of production , system integration su57 is fine given our background .But I would like to ask learned members what su57 is bringing to the table that ll give us edge , given It does nt have that j35 or f35 kind stealth . And can rafale complete its order in time if we give a order in near future given they have lots of old orders .

 

[Ajatshatru]

Nobody is talking about the fact that, despite a shortage of squadrons, Indian Air Force conducted strikes across the entire length and breadth of Pakistan, targeting its most heavily protected assets, airbases, radar installations, and even a nuclear storage facility in Kirana Hills.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

Nobody is talking about the fact that, despite a shortage of squadrons, Indian Air Force conducted strikes across the entire length and breadth of Pakistan, targeting its most heavily protected assets, airbases, radar installations, and even a nuclear storage facility in Kirana Hills.

dude india lacks aircraft squadron in case of chinese nd two front wars. for pakistan we hv little advantage over in quantity nd quality. nothing surprising here that IAF did strong damages on pakistani air bases etc.

 

[liberalredditor]

sabse best j35 lo aur baat khatam karo, bluetooth connect karke source code bhi mil jayega

 

[silentassassin265]

dude india lacks aircraft squadron in case of chinese nd two front wars. for pakistan we hv little advantage over in quantity nd quality. nothing surprising here that IAF did strong damages on pakistani air bases etc.

Not sure about quantity
Our bases are spread out throughout the country
In western bases our numbers might not be much higher than porks

 

[he-man]

My point was not shifted, merely calling the su-57 a 4.5gen implies it's junk especially when it was designed from the ground up to be a 5th gen aircraft by the Russians. I have no idea if the J20 or J35 is comparable to the F35 or F22 on paper. What I do know is that the Americans have explicitly started to train with F-35's as aggressors for the J-20. But have not set them up in a role for the Su-57. Actions speak louder than words right? I'm merely observing the actions of the USA. NONE of US have special access information to ANY 5th gen Fighter aircraft of ANY NATION. Therefore there is no point trying to compare sensors and capabilities if we know nothing. We can only observe what countries do in response. YOU may not believe in the USA. BUT they are the greatest air force by far in technology and equipment, THEY can judge if the Su-57 is junk or serious threat. Using F/A-18 to simulate the Su-57 doesn't inspire confidence in the aircraft does it? ESPECIALLY because the F/A-18 is a 40 YEAR OLD AIRCRAFT! Designed BEFORE the collapse of the USSR!

DO YOU KNOW WHO ELSE KNOWS ABOUT THE SU-57 CAPABILITIES?? THE IAF. AND THEY DROPPED OUT OF THE FGFA. One of the concerns was lack of capabilities!!! JUST LOOK AT THE ACTIONS.

I'M NOT arguing for India to buy F-35. I THINK THAT's ALSO THE WRONG MOVE. PAK J-35 Can be countered with S-400. And Layered Integrated Air defence. You see how pak airbases got vaporized during Operation Sindoor? Don't even need to kill them in the air. FIGHTERS are most vulnerable on the ground. will easily destroy J-35 while in pak Hangars! They have ZERO strategic depth. J-35 is a waste of money for paks. The Media hyping them up as big threat are stupid. India has not made any emergency purchase even with all the stupid media saying the IAF should buy stopgap. BUYING stopgap is a TRAP.

Su-57 strength lies in its 360 degree radar coverage with 4 x band arrays and 2 l band ones for stealth detection.

Not to forget the powerful engine and recent testing with proper 2d vectored flat nozzle.

Sure stealth is not optimal vs j20 or f-35 but it is vastly superior in range ,performance ,weapons it can carry in internal bay,active radar coverage.

The stealth part can be dealt with for some degree with superior RAM application and using frontal radar blocker.Anyways with internal weapon load the frontal rcs claimed by Russians is .1 metre square and should be exponentially better than rafale with external load and drop tanks.

We have no better options,get 2-3 squadrons before we make amca by 2035.

 

[he-man]

It ll cost a lot of money for support infra and maintainance for a new fighter jet let alone if it's f35 . We have invested a lot in rafale , that is the way forward. Regarding su57 we do have some background from su 30 . As far as some localisation of chain of production , system integration su57 is fine given our background .But I would like to ask learned members what su57 is bringing to the table that ll give us edge , given It does nt have that j35 or f35 kind stealth . And can rafale complete its order in time if we give a order in near future given they have lots of old orders .

What does rafale bring to table apart from spectra and its weapons?

It's stealth is shit especially with external drop tanks and weapons.Vs J-35 which pakistan is probably acquiring next year it will fare badly.It will be detected at twice the range of j-35.

We should stop glorifying rafale.Think on stealth terms.Su-57 may not be the best but it betters rafale in many things.Range ,payload,less rcs,way more radars and much powerful ,truly 5 gen engines with AL-51 and last but not the least an internal weapons bay.

We will get source code too for changes.

 

[liberalredditor]

What does rafale bring to table apart from spectra and its weapons?

It's stealth is shit especially with external drop tanks and weapons.Vs J-35 which pakistan is probably acquiring next year it will fare badly.It will be detected at twice the range of j-35.

We should stop glorifying rafale.Think on stealth terms.Su-57 may not be the best but it betters rafale in many things.Range ,payload,less rcs,way more radars and much powerful ,truly 5 gen engines with AL-51 and last but not the least an internal weapons bay.

We will get source code too for changes.

you are underestimating rafales capability, its spectra in war mode can give rcs even smaller than a su57
as for drop tanks, the spectra is mature enough to actively cancel the rcs

to fight a 5th gen fighter, you need a powerful and mature ew suite, cause there wouldnt be a dogfight, it all comes down to jamming, spoofing and bvr combat, terminal guidance, missile datalink and all
rafale f4 can provide us all of that with existing infra,

we can use the options clause in the older deal, to get it at a slightly cheaper rate, although frenchies would drain our balls completely knowing that it would be the last import

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Su-57 strength lies in its 360 degree radar coverage with 4 x band arrays and 2 l band ones for stealth detection.

Not to forget the powerful engine and recent testing with proper 2d vectored flat nozzle.

Sure stealth is not optimal vs j20 or f-35 but it is vastly superior in range ,performance ,weapons it can carry in internal bay,active radar coverage.

The stealth part can be dealt with for some degree with superior RAM application and using frontal radar blocker.Anyways with internal weapon load the frontal rcs claimed by Russians is .1 metre square and should be exponentially better than rafale with external load and drop tanks.

We have no better options,get 2-3 squadrons before we make amca by 2035.

Whether a plane is good or not, is determined by its MISSION PROFILE. For eg, MiG-21 is an INTERCEPTOR.
What is an interceptor ? its a plane that is made to intercept - aka catch another plane. As such, it is the FASTEST plane in IAF inventory ( MiG 21 is faster than an F16 or F15 fyi). But its a shit air superiority fighter, because an interceptor flies very fast but turns like an elephant. So it cant do the 'WVR dance' like air superiority can.
If you put MiG-21 in intercept mission, you end up with a success story like Abhinandan - where a 2nd generation plane shoots down a 4th generation plane. If you put MiG-21 in an air superiority mission, it will lose to good ol F-14 tomcat, which is now out of service ( its the plane u see in Top Gun-1)

Same way, Su-57s mission profile is NOT to be an air superiority fighter. Its to be a stealth plane killer. Its job isnt to establish air supremacy over enemy airspace. Its job is to hunt down enemy stealth jets. This is why Russians didnt give a flying fuck about covering tail sector engine nacells and didnt give flying fuck about rear-section stealth: a stealth killer doesnt care about how exposed its ass is.

What Indian Air Force needs to realize, is that we have one of the two Bhisma pitamahas in existence for air superiority planes : The Su-30 and the F-15.
ONLY THESE TWO PLANES have the fundamental structure to be in service till 2100 - they have gigantic lift capacity ( higher than Su35, F-22, Su-57) and a HUMONGOUS nose-cone- again bigger than ALL the previously mentioned planes.

Why is that the two main esssential things ? Because, in 30 years, when Su-30s and F-15s become obsolete in air superiority role, their HUGE nose-cone means we can pack them full of extra sensors and make them the perfect SEAD/DEAD growler squadron plane ( which USAF does only with F-15s) and its 11.5 TONNES lift capacity means we can LITERALLY strap 4 brahmos-A missiles to it, if we can find hardpoints sturdy enough and this plane, with 3000km range means we can take off from Bagdora, fly over chengdu and come back, without a SINGLE drop tank or mid air-refuelling.

So i hope IAF recognizes we have one of the two immortal planes in our inventory and maintains it as such, since this plane will be useful to IAF even when our children turn 80 years old.

 

[he-man]

Whether a plane is good or not, is determined by its MISSION PROFILE. For eg, MiG-21 is an INTERCEPTOR.
What is an interceptor ? its a plane that is made to intercept - aka catch another plane. As such, it is the FASTEST plane in IAF inventory ( MiG 21 is faster than an F16 or F15 fyi). But its a shit air superiority fighter, because an interceptor flies very fast but turns like an elephant. So it cant do the 'WVR dance' like air superiority can.
If you put MiG-21 in intercept mission, you end up with a success story like Abhinandan - where a 2nd generation plane shoots down a 4th generation plane. If you put MiG-21 in an air superiority mission, it will lose to good ol F-14 tomcat, which is now out of service ( its the plane u see in Top Gun-1)

Same way, Su-57s mission profile is NOT to be an air superiority fighter. Its to be a stealth plane killer. Its job isnt to establish air supremacy over enemy airspace. Its job is to hunt down enemy stealth jets. This is why Russians didnt give a flying fuck about covering tail sector engine nacells and didnt give flying fuck about rear-section stealth: a stealth killer doesnt care about how exposed its ass is.

What Indian Air Force needs to realize, is that we have one of the two Bhisma pitamahas in existence for air superiority planes : The Su-30 and the F-15.
ONLY THESE TWO PLANES have the fundamental structure to be in service till 2100 - they have gigantic lift capacity ( higher than Su35, F-22, Su-57) and a HUMONGOUS nose-cone- again bigger than ALL the previously mentioned planes.

Why is that the two main esssential things ? Because, in 30 years, when Su-30s and F-15s become obsolete in air superiority role, their HUGE nose-cone means we can pack them full of extra sensors and make them the perfect SEAD/DEAD growler squadron plane ( which USAF does only with F-15s) and its 11.5 TONNES lift capacity means we can LITERALLY strap 4 brahmos-A missiles to it, if we can find hardpoints sturdy enough and this plane, with 3000km range means we can take off from Bagdora, fly over chengdu and come back, without a SINGLE drop tank or mid air-refuelling.

So i hope IAF recognizes we have one of the two immortal planes in our inventory and maintains it as such, since this plane will be useful to IAF even when our children turn 80 years old.

Point of contention here is rafale vs su-57 vs F-35 for future order.

On rear section of su-57...they already have a flat 3d nozzle which is not photoshopped.Should be available soon.

I disagree completely on ur assessment of su-30.It can only be used if enemy airdefence is suppressed reliably ,the rcs is too big ,will be detected 300 -400 km out easily.We need something with stealth for missions like we already did.

This time we managed but pakistan will be way more prepared next time and would have j-35 too likely within a year.

 

[he-man]

you are underestimating rafales capability, its spectra in war mode can give rcs even smaller than a su57
as for drop tanks, the spectra is mature enough to actively cancel the rcs

to fight a 5th gen fighter, you need a powerful and mature ew suite, cause there wouldnt be a dogfight, it all comes down to jamming, spoofing and bvr combat, terminal guidance, missile datalink and all
rafale f4 can provide us all of that with existing infra,

we can use the options clause in the older deal, to get it at a slightly cheaper rate, although frenchies would drain our balls completely knowing that it would be the last import

Seriously ?

How will rafale mask it's true rcs even with spectra?If still has external weapons and those huge drop tanks.

And I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here but rafale was found wanting according to most experts to put it mildly.