Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[johny_baba]

You're going to have to carry the chemical tank too, whether Oxygen-Iodine or Nitrogen Trifluoride. Limiting weapons payload. A short range miniaturized Kinetic hard-kill APS system might be lighter.

hhmm ok, then consider this,
a bunch of loyal wingman UAV specialised with laser DEW weapon flying along with fighter jets, their task is to take down all incoming missiles towards the manned fighter jets with their laser guns

 

[Azaad]

You're going to have to carry the chemical tank too, whether Oxygen-Iodine or Nitrogen Trifluoride. Limiting weapons payload. A short range miniaturized Kinetic hard-kill APS system might be lighter.

Consider the amount of time it takes to fry the circuits too. It looks like a full 20-30 secs from engagement to final destruction. What happens if there's a swarm of drones being engaged ?!

You'd need multiple such DEW guns not to mention the fact that AAMs move at tremendous speeds. The missile would likely hit the target before its electronics get fried.

 

[Anants]

another khayali pulao of mine,

so, DRDO recently tested out a laser DEW of some kw capacity to take out drones and UAV and such small scale aerial targets

i wonder if we can, let's say, install similar thing at rear side of fighter aircrafts, mated with all missile warning sensors that it can actively take out incoming AA missiles

You saw how much time it took to take down a slow moving aircraft in video released? Think how difficult would be it for 30kw laser to take down fast missile. Right now plans are afoot in 6th gen programs to have a much stronger laser integrated with aircrafts. Thats precisely why you see 3 engine config in chinese programs and insanely much higher thrust engines in purported power plants of US 6th gen. Thats for imtegrating qQAÀpower hungry more powerful lasers.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

hhmm ok, then consider this,
a bunch of loyal wingman UAV specialised with laser DEW weapon flying along with fighter jets, their task is to take down all incoming missiles towards the manned fighter jets with their laser guns

It'll have to be some drone. Consider it also has to carry fuel, now you add a tank of chemical, and this thing won't carry any other weapons. If you want, say 2 hours of endurance out of this drone, it'll have to be bigger than a Mirage 2000. And you'd need atleast 2 drones to cover each Fighter. A2A missiles will come at you @ mach 3-4. If target tracking is not a problem, then you need to consider laser output. And on the air you're limited by your chemical tank. Even if you squeeze max output through lenses that'll need a full overhaul after a sortie, your tank will run out of juice before that. Hard to say how many volleys of BVRAAMs you'll shoot down before a tank empties, but it won't last for the duration of your average mission. Forget heat seekers, they are too agile for gimbal mounted lasers.

 

[randombully]

i know about DIRCM, but isn't it just a infrared flasher that overdrives incoming missile's IR sensor and reduces chances of strike on aircraft?
I meant a laser gun of suitable capacity on a moving targetting pod-like thing that can heat up an incoming missile and roast it to kaboom before it reaches near, all kinds of missiles be it infrared sensing or radar ones

For a laser like that, power is not enough in current fighter jets.
Future 6th gen having very high electrical power are "talked about" having a laser for point defense against radar guided missiles, but the laser in this case is considered to be used to mess with the electronics(seeker) of the missile in its nose.
Or a small microwave emitter to mess with the electronics of the incoming bvr missile.

A laser powerful enough that can burn through the missile in seconds at a distance of more few kms is envisioned to be used on "Naval ships" only for now.


The problem here is power, missiles are fast (a missile at the speed of Mach 2 covers distance of 2+km in 3 seconds), a
So you need a laser that is powerful enough to burn through the missile in ideally 1-2 seconds at a distance of more than 3+km, that level powersupply is only possible in ground and ship based systems.
Even then for targets at mach2 or more and hypersonic, currently traditional gun based ciws are much better option "compared to" even a 1MW laser.
Laser are good to deal with relatively slower targets, and powerful lasers good against drones/munitions that try to overwhelm with number.
So for a laser point defense weapon for future fighter 6th gen jets messing with the seeker and electronics is faster and just a better way plus requires way less power.


Lasers are also affected significantly by environment and weather.


US planned to use lasers by putting it on boeing 747 against incoming ballistic missiles, in short the power was not enough, after a dozen kms the laser's energy was too much spread out in the atmosphere to be effective.
So the plan was cancelled.

Google Image Result for https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/YAL-1A_Airborne_Laser_unstowed_crop.jpg

Then there's Russian peresvet laser weapon (fixed position due to consuming lots of power) that is claimed to be capable of "blinding" the sensors of "satellites" in space.
But depends on good environmental conditions for that.




So while laser weapons are becoming reality.
But a laser on flying plane powerful enough to burn and destroy the incoming missiles under 2 seconds flying at mach2 or similar speeds at a distance of 3+km is "fantasy" for now.
Messing with sensors is a better approach.

But for very slow moving targets like the ones shown in drdo 30kw laser demonstration, destroying by burning them is feasible and preferred due to having enough time to burn them(5+seconds) and having that time at much closer distance( few hundred meters to a km at most).


Another thing is as for "messing" with sensors of the incoming bvr missiles
Much more resilient electronics to deal with it are possible by "current" technology. Though will increase the weight and cost.


So laser while a good addition are not bringing "revolution" in case air defense against incoming missiles atleast for now.
They are good against slow moving targets, but a gun based ciws is good too( somewhat better than lasers), but lasers have two advantages over gun based ciws, 1 massive reduction in cost per shot.
2, not limited by number of bullets stored.



So we haven't reach the technological level to make envisioned role of lasers in future a reality, yet.
Instead alternative ways( messing with sensors, and emergence of slow moving cheap drones) to use them are now being explored.

 

[Azaad]

You saw how much time it took to take down a slow moving aircraft in video released? Think how difficult would be it for 30kw laser to take down fast missile. Right now plans are afoot in 6th gen programs to have a much stronger laser integrated with aircrafts. Thats precisely why you see 3 engine config in chinese programs and insanely much higher thrust engines in purported power plants of US 6th gen. Thats for imtegrating qQAÀpower hungry more powerful lasers.

My guess is going ahead you're going to see a dedicated anti AAM FA equipped with DEW , much like the dedicated Growler / Prowler for EA we see today instead of equipping every 6th Gen FA with a DEW. That should be the interim solution IMO.

 

[The Shrike]

Indian Air Force aircraft faced massive cyberattacks in Myanmar airspace during aid mission: Report​

Indian Air Force aircraft faced massive cyberattacks in Myanmar airspace during aid mission: Report

GPS spoofing is a normal wartime tactic in active conflict zones. Similar GPS spoofing incidents have been cropping up closer to the Line of Control as well. Since November 2023, 465 cases have been reported near Amritsar and Jammu

www.firstpost.com

View attachment 30490

The sources said it was impossible for the IAF to investigate the cyberattacks as they had occurred in a foreign airspace. However, the sources pointed fingers at “regional adversaries” when asked about perpetrators.

GPS spoofing is not a "Cyberattack" .

 

[karn]

i know about DIRCM, but isn't it just a infrared flasher that overdrives incoming missile's IR sensor and reduces chances of strike on aircraft?
I meant a laser gun of suitable capacity on a moving targetting pod-like thing that can heat up an incoming missile and roast it to kaboom before it reaches near, all kinds of missiles be it infrared sensing or radar ones

For a radar guided missile I think high power microwaves would be better .. If a large amount of microwave (lets say a MASER) hits the seeker . It will induce high currents that will similarly blind the missile if not fry the sensor.
DRDO chief already mentions
1. Looking to miniaturize this and put it on aircraft .
2. Working on high power microwaves and EMP.

 

[randombully]

GPS spoofing is not a "Cyberattack" .

Gps spoofing= sending false gps signals in an attempt to mislead a aircraft or in high stakes trying to cause a crash is labeled in most countries as Cyberterrorism.
It is very well a form of cyberattack, it uses digital manipulation( sending false/fake signal) to harm/interfere with the target/mission.

 

[Miss Firing]

Gps spoofing= sending false gps signals in an attempt to mislead a aircraft or in high stakes trying to cause a crash is labeled in most countries as Cyberterrorism.
It is very well a form of cyberattack, it uses digital manipulation( sending false/fake signal) to harm/interfere with the target/mission.

I thought cyber attack only applies to platforms with TCP/IP protocol stack installed, else it could be termed electronic attack?

 

[randombully]

I thought cyber attack only applies to platforms with TCP/IP protocol stack installed, else it could be termed electronic attack?

EW includes any form of digital/electronic warfare.
Hacking, jamming, spoofing, overloading etc, cyber attack is part of that.
Plus both those terms have a big grey area where both terms can apply.
And it wasn't just gps spoofing IAF transport jets encountered, there were jamming attempts, malware infiltration too.



View: https://x.com/sanjeev__kapoor/status/1911625638412234825


Almost a guarantee that It was an Digital attack by chinks to test the capabilities of IAF transport aircraft in that domain.

 

[Ultraman]

GPS spoofing is not a "Cyberattack" .

gps jamming/spoofing has been going on here for long time .

funny that IAF wasnt aware of it . indian military always getting surprised.

 

[randombully]

gps jamming/spoofing has been going on here for long time .

funny that IAF wasnt aware of it . indian military always getting surprised.

View attachment 30516

Only those red parts can be considered jamming in case of military comms.
You need high power, highly sophisticated dedicated jammers to try to attempt an Digital attack on military planes.

According to this map I live in gps jamming area, yet my gps on my civilian phone connection is working.

 

[Ultraman]

Only those red parts can be considered jamming in case of military comms.
You need high power, highly sophisticated dedicated jammers to try to attempt an Digital attack on military planes.

According to this map I live in gps jamming area, yet my gps on my civilian phone connection is working.

According to this map I live in gps jamming area, yet my gps on my civilian phone connection is working.

because ur on the ground , jammer needs a line of sight to target to overpower the sat signal .

the map data is compiled from data reported by actual aircrafts flying nearby

 

[randombully]

According to this map I live in gps jamming area, yet my gps on my civilian phone connection is working.

because ur on the ground , jammer needs a line of sight to target to overpower the sat signal .

the map data is compiled from data reported by actual aircrafts flying nearby

Yeah, jets flying normally also Don't get targeted by these jamming signals.

 

[E-195]

India has developed a Star Wars-like laser gun, which it tested on Sunday by shooting down a swarm of drones several kilometres away.

The 30-kilowatt laser weapon, known as Sahastra Shakti, burns through targets at the speed of light after initially detecting them by radar, according to Indian officials.

The launch marks the country’s foray into the next generation of weaponry, using lasers to strike targets.

The machine was unveiled at the National Open Air Range in Kurnool city, in the state of Andhra Pradesh.

ndia’s Defence Research and Development Organisation, which led the trial, said the weapon first picked up and tracked seven swarm drones at a range of 3.5km (2.17 miles), before locking on and destroying them.


It then knocked out a fixed-wing drone at an even greater range.

“[The laser] defeated a fixed-wing UAV and swarm drones successfully, causing structural damage and disabling the surveillance sensors,” said Samir Kamat, the organisation’s chairman.
India has ramped up military spending in recent years amid rising tensions with China at the border and the ongoing threat of conflict with neighbouring Pakistan.

In February, India proposed defence spending of 6.81 trillion rupees (£60 billion) for the 2025-26 fiscal year, up 9.5 per cent from the previous year’s initial estimates.

The launch of laser weapons puts it in the same league as the United States, Russia, China and Israel.

“This is just the beginning of the journey. We are working on a number of technologies that will give us Star Wars capability. What you saw today was one of the components of Star Wars technologies,” said Mr Kamat

India develops ‘Star Wars’ laser gun to shoot down drones

India has developed a Star Wars-like laser gun, which it tested on Sunday by shooting down a swarm of drones several kilometres away.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Blademaster]

India has developed a Star Wars-like laser gun, which it tested on Sunday by shooting down a swarm of drones several kilometres away.

The 30-kilowatt laser weapon, known as Sahastra Shakti, burns through targets at the speed of light after initially detecting them by radar, according to Indian officials.

The launch marks the country’s foray into the next generation of weaponry, using lasers to strike targets.

The machine was unveiled at the National Open Air Range in Kurnool city, in the state of Andhra Pradesh.
View attachment 30559
ndia’s Defence Research and Development Organisation, which led the trial, said the weapon first picked up and tracked seven swarm drones at a range of 3.5km (2.17 miles), before locking on and destroying them.


It then knocked out a fixed-wing drone at an even greater range.

“[The laser] defeated a fixed-wing UAV and swarm drones successfully, causing structural damage and disabling the surveillance sensors,” said Samir Kamat, the organisation’s chairman.
India has ramped up military spending in recent years amid rising tensions with China at the border and the ongoing threat of conflict with neighbouring Pakistan.

In February, India proposed defence spending of 6.81 trillion rupees (£60 billion) for the 2025-26 fiscal year, up 9.5 per cent from the previous year’s initial estimates.

The launch of laser weapons puts it in the same league as the United States, Russia, China and Israel.

“This is just the beginning of the journey. We are working on a number of technologies that will give us Star Wars capability. What you saw today was one of the components of Star Wars technologies,” said Mr Kamat

India develops ‘Star Wars’ laser gun to shoot down drones

India has developed a Star Wars-like laser gun, which it tested on Sunday by shooting down a swarm of drones several kilometres away.

www.yahoo.com

How long did it take for the laser to knock it down? If it was less than a second then it is very useful but if it requires more than a couple seconds then it may not be useful because it has to stay painted on that target for it to work and that target is a moving target capable of zigzaging causing the laser to lose lock on that target.

 

[Nutcracker]

India has developed a Star Wars-like laser gun, which it tested on Sunday by shooting down a swarm of drones several kilometres away.

The 30-kilowatt laser weapon, known as Sahastra Shakti, burns through targets at the speed of light after initially detecting them by radar, according to Indian officials.

The launch marks the country’s foray into the next generation of weaponry, using lasers to strike targets.

The machine was unveiled at the National Open Air Range in Kurnool city, in the state of Andhra Pradesh.
View attachment 30559
ndia’s Defence Research and Development Organisation, which led the trial, said the weapon first picked up and tracked seven swarm drones at a range of 3.5km (2.17 miles), before locking on and destroying them.


It then knocked out a fixed-wing drone at an even greater range.

“[The laser] defeated a fixed-wing UAV and swarm drones successfully, causing structural damage and disabling the surveillance sensors,” said Samir Kamat, the organisation’s chairman.
India has ramped up military spending in recent years amid rising tensions with China at the border and the ongoing threat of conflict with neighbouring Pakistan.

In February, India proposed defence spending of 6.81 trillion rupees (£60 billion) for the 2025-26 fiscal year, up 9.5 per cent from the previous year’s initial estimates.

The launch of laser weapons puts it in the same league as the United States, Russia, China and Israel.

“This is just the beginning of the journey. We are working on a number of technologies that will give us Star Wars capability. What you saw today was one of the components of Star Wars technologies,” said Mr Kamat

India develops ‘Star Wars’ laser gun to shoot down drones

India has developed a Star Wars-like laser gun, which it tested on Sunday by shooting down a swarm of drones several kilometres away.

www.yahoo.com

Video in below post from DRDO thread.

View: https://x.com/livefist/status/1911377777476980745?t=kJ6e_PG9YA7GznAliv0qCw&s=19


View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1911368349537181977?t=aQXAqnKsrwEprSPtM-C1kw&s=19

How long did it take for the laser to knock it down? If it was less than a second then it is very useful but if it requires more than a couple seconds then it may not be useful because it has to stay painted on that target for it to work and that target is a moving target capable of zigzaging causing the laser to lose lock on that target.

3-4 second for fixed wing low maneuverable drones like porky weapons-drugs dropping quadcopters, Russian orlan or Iranian shahed etc at 3-4km far. Kill time will be shorter for something closer.

 

[E-195]

How long did it take for the laser to knock it down? If it was less than a second then it is very useful but if it requires more than a couple seconds then it may not be useful because it has to stay painted on that target for it to work and that target is a moving target capable of zigzaging causing the laser to lose lock on that target.

i wish you the best, you are facing a new Nazi Germany in the CCP fascist regime

 

[samsaptaka]

Indian Air Force aircraft faced massive cyberattacks in Myanmar airspace during aid mission: Report​

Indian Air Force aircraft faced massive cyberattacks in Myanmar airspace during aid mission: Report

GPS spoofing is a normal wartime tactic in active conflict zones. Similar GPS spoofing incidents have been cropping up closer to the Line of Control as well. Since November 2023, 465 cases have been reported near Amritsar and Jammu

www.firstpost.com

View attachment 30490

The sources said it was impossible for the IAF to investigate the cyberattacks as they had occurred in a foreign airspace. However, the sources pointed fingers at “regional adversaries” when asked about perpetrators.

Right, does IAF have plans to execute similar cyber attacks on said regional adversary when they fly to Myanmar?