Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[maximus777]

pancho agle saal ya 2027 tak ka bhi wait nahi karna pada, aaj fir se masterchef par cooking shuru

Give the kamikaze drones to BLA, TTP and all sorts of noodle soup organizations that want to rip Pak a new one. Then lay back, grab some popcorn and watch the fun.

 

[liberalredditor]

Man we need cats program to mature asap
Would have been absolutely disastrous for pork if cats system was there

 

[liberalredditor]

India should invest in micro-nuclear reactors. They can supply anywhere from 1 - 20 megawatts of power. They will have immense potential for navy ships.

It would need a lot of redesigning for current ships
For nuclear fuel to be stored, spent fuel to be stored, and then most important, keeping the reactor inside and preventing it from any damage due to arms
Hence not possible

I wonder how they will get those 100 MJ railguns on current warships

 

[Spitfire IX]

Yes, absolutely. If a Rafale can be shot down easily by a run-of-the-mill air defense system, then one would think multiple times about the orders that are yet to be delivered.

That would imply air forces reconsidering ordering anything lacking low observability - Tejas Mk1A, Tejas Mk2, Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen E, F-16 etc.

Take a country like Colombia, for example, whose fleet of Kfir is reportedly on its last legs. Does it ground its fighter force and suspend that capability until it can afford 5G fighters or does it order something 4G to maintain fighter operations in the future?

A hot conflict in which 4G fighters were being lost to air defences or enemy fighter action would encourage buyers to turn their attention to KAAN (scheduled first IWB into production) or KF-21 (probably second) or AMCA (probably third) for their future procurement needs.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Do you think that anyone would pull away from ordering Rafale because a Rafale had been shot down by a SAM? What I would make of that is that 4G aircraft are more vulnerable to detection than 5G aircraft. I believe that has been widely know for a long time now.

Yes, absolutely. If a Rafale can be shot down easily by a run-of-the-mill air defense system, then one would think multiple times about the orders that are yet to be delivered.

That would imply air forces reconsidering ordering anything lacking low observability - Tejas Mk1A, Tejas Mk2, Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen E, F-16 etc.

Take a country like Colombia, for example, whose fleet of Kfir is reportedly on its last legs. Does it ground its fighter force and suspend that capability until it can afford 5G fighters or does it order something 4G to maintain fighter operations in the future?

A hot conflict in which 4G fighters were being lost to air defences or enemy fighter action would encourage buyers to turn their attention to KAAN (scheduled first IWB into production) or KF-21 (probably second) or AMCA (probably third) for their future procurement needs.

It dynamically depends on situation of a country & its enemy - finance, geography, geopolitics, industry, education, trade & commerce, urgency & desire to be a lagger or leader, which define defence capability & procurement.

Smaller/weaker entity Vs bigger/stronger entity could be like Bruce Lee (or any Martial Artist) Vs opponents. He/They could defeat multiple opponents by prepared, practiced, precise (PPP) tactics.
In air-combat PPP would obviously mean R&Ded jet ahead in gen/tech, simple.

But the other point is also true that number has its own strength, means many previous gen jets, a saturated attack, but well coordinated. But again, losses would also be in same ratio.

The choice to make/import/field 4/5/6gen jets in front would depend on
- enemy's AAM, SAM capability Vs ours,
- our detection & friend/foe distinction capability with networking,
- our strategy & tactics to evade enemy.

But also, as everything gets obsolete with time,
Leaders enjoy supremacy by continious R&D.
Laggers suffer by delays, reasons.

EU doesn't have 5gen. GCAP, FCAS got initiated to proactively counter Russian 5&6gen. Selling Rafales, EF-2000, etc adds to revenue for R&D.
Same thing USA doing, selling F-15/16/35 to fund NGAD, F/A-XX.
After Russia revealing Su-75 & Sweden giving indication of future stealthy product, any non-stealthy project becomes a dead-end bcoz it is natural evolution, unless some poor customers demand.

So the solution for a country, depending on various factors mentioned 1st are:
- initiate future domestic projects a.s.a.p. if having all aspect abilities (money, education, industry), will power, desire.
- where abilities missing, but money is there, is there any other option than import?
- if no money, no ability, then suffer, remain at mercy of others.

1 option is export ban on AMCA, but LCA/MWF can be transformed into stealthy exportable jet like Su-75, so situation would be like ATF VS JSF.
Other option is export variant of every jet, but keeping in mind obsolecence & evolution.

 

[liberalredditor]

my logic would sound illogical but maybe we should order 3-4 squadrons of amca mk1 with f414 even if trials would not be complete, we start making it by 2030 and get it by 2032 and then let the mk2 come by 2035; ig amca prototype would fly by 2027 last quarter

same should be done for tejas mk2 asap, start mass production by 2028
if we just produce 30-40 pieces per year then may be we would be able to reach 42 sq target, although that would get revised to atleast 50+ because of j20 and j35

 

[Bleh]

FPV Squadrons. Need is the day


View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DJbm4jxMPZ7/?igsh=MWN4eWsyMnV1ODluNg==

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

my logic would sound illogical but maybe we should order 3-4 squadrons of amca mk1 with f414 even if trials would not be complete, we start making it by 2030 and get it by 2032 and then let the mk2 come by 2035; ig amca prototype would fly by 2027 last quarter

same should be done for tejas mk2 asap, start mass production by 2028
if we just produce 30-40 pieces per year then may be we would be able to reach 42 sq target, although that would get revised to atleast 50+ because of j20 and j35

> We can produce LCA till MWF is production ready.
> We can produce MWF till AMCA is production ready.
> Beyond that the only future LCA/MWF would have is a stealthy transformation or if some poor nations like Sri-Lanka, African, Middle-East, SE Asian nations could afford obsolete airframe design, competed by F-16, Gripen, etc. But if their economy also improve & apart from Su-75, if Sweden & EU groups also disclose a 1-engine stealth jet, then nobody would even look at LCA/MWF, Gripen, F-15/16, EF-2000, Rafale, etc anymore.

 

[liberalredditor]

> We can produce LCA till MWF is production ready.
> We can produce MWF till AMCA is production ready.
> Beyond that the only future LCA/MWF would have is a stealthy transformation or if some poor nations like Sri-Lanka, African, Middle-East, SE Asian nations could afford obsolete airframe design, competed by F-16, Gripen, etc. But if their economy also improve & apart from Su-75, if Sweden & EU groups also disclose a 1-engine stealth jet, then nobody would even look at LCA/MWF, Gripen, F-15/16, EF-2000, Rafale, etc anymore.

not necessary that we will produce mwf after lca

we can make a new production facility for fighters just like hal built the tumkuru facility for helicopters

we have a lot of platforms to be produced, if we wiat for one platform to be produced completely produced then i am guaranteeing we wont see tedbf even in the early 2050s

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

are sorry yaar i forgot the technical terms

tarbooj & lauki/baingan types also there:

lauki/baingan type:



Tarbooj type:

 

[Gandaberunda]

The bombing of PAF base jacobabad which is a 400 kms away were done by Su-30 MKi carrying 3 ton missiles. Even Nur Kahn and Sargodha were bombed by Sukhoi. We have modified Su 30 based on our recruitment and also upgraded with avionics.
We should order 2-3 squadrons more of Su 30 MKI absolute BEAST and upgrade rest of the fleet to super Sukhoi.
If AMCA is coming after 2035-2040 then we have to get 2 squadrons of Su 57E locally built with Indian avionics/radars integrated. At least Russian weapons we can modify based on what we want when we want without asking Putin.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

not necessary that we will produce mwf after lca

we can make a new production facility for fighters just like hal built the tumkuru facility for helicopters

we have a lot of platforms to be produced, if we wiat for one platform to be produced completely produced then i am guaranteeing we wont see tedbf even in the early 2050s

I don't mean linear approach, 1 after other. USA, Russia, China have run independent parallel programs.
We're most populous country now.
We had IT boom in 1990s. many tech colleges opened in small cities also. Many more IITs, NITs, others.
We had advanced CAD s/w, Param-2000 kind of super-computer, Since then today we have much better ones. Even the automotive industry has seen robotics, automation.
10s of 1000s of tech students passing out every year.
100s of 1000s of techies available today after 25 years, for PSU & private sector, otherwise mass unemployment & civil war is inevitable.
We're lagging a lot, but we have opportunity to make whatever we want.
Some don't realize that AMCA design itself is against LCA/MWF & 1-engine reduced AMCA, call it ALCA/AMWF can be made easily.
IN has indictaed 5gen TEDBF & talks of initiating 6gen are floating.
So I don't see any reason to drag obsolete tech of any kind. Doing so would be an act of stalling & sabotage actually.

 

[Kapil]

We have to absolutely prepare for a 2 front war now. Prepare like Poland is preparing for Russian invasion in arms buying.
IAF in particular needs urgent attention on airframes, refuelers etc.
Ready products which can be bought in numbers:

1. LCA : Confirmed orders of 97 additional airframes should be given asap now. If possible, increase the order and invite private sector to make 50% of it. Negotiate production increase with GE for injun.Nutshell, target to maintain 300 LCAs as first line of defence on the western and northern air bases by 2035.

2. Sukhoi 30MKi : Wrote earlier. Absolute beast. I think Paki pilots must be shitting bricks when they detect a Su30MKi. We need to order more ( add 5 squadrons) + add more squadrons to be upgraded under SuperSukhoi program. Always maintain 300 SuperSukhoi's by 2035, till we have our own HCA

3. Rafale : Let the Rafales come now. Make it 90, do everything to make it highly maintainable and upgradeable( MRO or MFg. Plant, I don't care). Maintain 100 Rafale airframes always. Give it to bada-bhai to Mfg. at speed or call tatas. Just get it done via private industry.

4. Astra Mk1 and 2 : Order 2000( instead of trickle feed of 200 each 5 years)

5. Gaurav : Order 10k

6. SAAW - Order 10k. Next Sar-gadha runway crater should be from this baby.

7. NG-ARM - Certify on more aircrafts and order 2000-3000 rather than trickle feed again.

8. Decoys, MAWS and RWRs for each aircraft - learn from this skirmish and invest in safety/prevention of each aircraft.

9. Akash : 10 more squadrons of Akash 1S. Airforce has less airframes, so derer by air defence (like Ukraine is doing in Russia).

10. QRSAM : As many regiment as needed for strike corps ( 5 straight away)

11. Akash NG : Add 9 squadrons (instead of ordering more MRSAM)

12. Nethra : Double the orders for Nethra Mk2( find 6 more airframes from 2nd hand market for gods sake and stop waiting for chapati one)

13. Refuelers : Pls pls pls order 12-15 MRTT ( take 330 if you like it, or take 2nd hand 747 airframes and let yahoodi bros convert it.)

14. AD Guns : Enough of 200 Sudarshans every 5 yrs. Pls.order 1000-2000 to cover the chong border and be done with it.

All this should be done and delivered by 2035.

Till then :

15. Go binge buy all M2K airframes. Greece and Taiwan might just sell. This will give you numbers till 2035

16. Mig29 : See if you can get more Mig29 from Russia post ceasefire by Putin. If they end the war now, no fear of katsa. This will also give you numbers till 2035.




This requires common sense. Maybe it will prevail after the recent skirmish.

 

[sameer]

We have to absolutely prepare for a 2 front war now. Prepare like Poland is preparing for Russian invasion in arms buying.
IAF in particular needs urgent attention on airframes, refuelers etc.
Ready products which can be bought in numbers:

1. LCA : Confirmed orders of 97 additional airframes should be given asap now. If possible, increase the order and invite private sector to make 50% of it. Negotiate production increase with GE for injun.Nutshell, target to maintain 300 LCAs as first line of defence on the western and northern air bases by 2035.

2. Sukhoi MK30 : Wrote earlier. Absolute beast. I think Paki pilots must be shitting bricks when they detect a Su30MKi. We need to order more ( add 5 squadrons) + add more squadrons to be upgraded under SuperSukhoi program. Always maintain 300 SuperSukhoi's by 2035, till we have our own HCA

3. Rafale : Let the Rafales come now. Make it 90, do everything to make it highly maintainable and upgradeable( MRO or MFg. Plant, I don't care). Maintain 100 Rafale airframes always. Give it to bada-bhai to Mfg. at speed or call tatas. Just get it done via private industry.

4. Astra Mk1 and 2 : Order 2000( instead of trickle feed of 200 each 5 years)

5. Gaurav : Order 10k

6. SAAW - Order 10k. Next Sar-gadha runway crater should be from this baby.

All this should be done and delivered by 2035.
Till then :

7. Go binge buy all M2K airframes. Greece and Taiwan might just sell. This will give you numbers till 2035

8. Mig29 : See if you can get more Mig29 from Russia post ceasefire by Putin. If they end the war now, no dear of katsa. This will also give you numbers till 2035.

9. Akash : 10 more squadrons of Akash 1S. Airforce has less airframes, so derer by air defence (like Ukraine is doing in Russia).

10. QRSAM : As many regiment as needed for strike corps

11. Akash NG : Add 9 squadrons (instead of ordering more MRSAM)

12. Nethra : Double the orders for Nethra Mk2( find 6 more airframes from 2nd hand market for fods sake)

13. Refuelers : Pls pls pls order MRTT ( take 330 if you like it, or take 2nd hand 747 airframes and let yahoodi bros convert it.


This requires common sense. Maybe it will prevail after the recent skirmish.

I agree in general except for any additional Rafale purchases. The more I look at it, the more it looks like a very very expensive glass cannon at a price I believe was around $200M a bird

The recent naval Rafale-M is like what Rs 60k crore for 26 aircraft, which comes to around $277M per unit, ofc this includes weapons integration like meteor and exocet, but still a very expensive proposition.

The next purchase Frenchies will charge will probably charge like $300M a bird. Dassault employees as well as their children and grandchildren will be set for their lives with 5 star vacations each year.

Better save this money by investing on something else. Of course IAF being IAF won't be able to resist the temptations of baguettes.

 

[Kapil]

I agree in general except for any additional Rafale purchases. The more I look at it, the more it looks like a very very expensive glass cannon at a price I believe was around $200M a bird

The recent naval Rafale-M is like what Rs 60k crore for 26 aircraft, which comes to around $277M per unit, ofc this includes weapons integration like meteor and exocet, but still a very expensive proposition.

The next purchase Frenchies will charge will probably charge like $300M a bird. Dassault employees as well as their children and grandchildren will be set for their lives with 5 star vacations each year.

Better save this money by investing on something else. Of course IAF being IAF won't be able to resist the temptations of baguettes.

Hi Sameer, great thoughts and I echo that but I see another kinetic action by 2030 and very few machines are there which can give us numbers and can be quickly assimilated..
We have really dug a hole for ourselves on fighter squadrons.
1. Can't buy new M2K, Mig29 and Jags - out of production except for mothballed Mig29s in Russia
2. Can't order more LCA due to engine constraints at GE
3. Can't order Su30, Su47 due to Katsa
4. Not sure if we can trust Unkil with F-35, F16 etc.

The only guaranteed thing right now is Rafale.

 

[sameer]

Hi Sameer, great thoughts and I echo that but I see another kinetic action by 2030 and very few machines are there which can give us numbers and can be quickly assimilated..
We have really dug a hole for ourselves on fighter squadrons.
1. Can't buy new M2K, Mig29 and Jags - out of production except for mothballed Mig29s in Russia
2. Can't order more LCA due to engine constraints at GE
3. Can't order Su30, Su47 due to Katsa
4. Not sure if we can trust Unkil with F-35, F16 etc.

The only guaranteed thing right now is Rafale.

The thing is Dassault is backed up with Rafale orders till early 2030's and their manufacturing capacity is like around 20 per year.

Unless they agree to open a new line In India, which I'm not really sure of , we aren't getting these birds before 2030.

tbh, IAF is in a deep quagmire and it is very difficult to get out of the rut they've dug themselves into.

 

[Kapil]

The thing is Dassault is backed up with Rafale orders till early 2030's and their manufacturing capacity is like around 20 per year.

Unless they agree to open a new line In India, which I'm not really sure of , we aren't getting these birds before 2030.

tbh, IAF is in a deep quagmire and it is very difficult to get out of the rut they've dug themselves into.

Rafale Merignac line can produce 33 per year.
+ We can setup a line for 8.

As I mentioned, we need to move fast and open the purse strings.
I possibly lined up $ 50Bn worth HW and Govt need to stop freebies and divert much needed money to defence.

 

[liberalredditor]

tarbooj & lauki/baingan types also there:

lauki/baingan type:

View attachment 35100

Tarbooj type:

View attachment 35104

Ye to sooj gaya hai, isko bolo doctor ko dikhaye

Ps: i actually forgot the technical name of both

 

[liberalredditor]

Hi Sameer, great thoughts and I echo that but I see another kinetic action by 2030 and very few machines are there which can give us numbers and can be quickly assimilated..
We have really dug a hole for ourselves on fighter squadrons.
1. Can't buy new M2K, Mig29 and Jags - out of production except for mothballed Mig29s in Russia
2. Can't order more LCA due to engine constraints at GE
3. Can't order Su30, Su47 due to Katsa
4. Not sure if we can trust Unkil with F-35, F16 etc.

The only guaranteed thing right now is Rafale.

If we cannot order su30 then how is hal making 12 units at nashik?

 

[Kapil]

If we cannot order su30 then how is hal making 12 units at nashik?

See the first post - I have asked for that number to be made as 100(rather than stop at 12). There are 2 problems-
1. With normal payment channels blocked, there are issues in paying Russia. Not sure where but I have read that even oil payments are an issue
2. CAATSA is hanging over our heads....moiji can talk to his frand Burger King, but they both look very very divorced.

PS - I haven't even touched the trade deal part under which we will be forced to buy Burger platforms. Some other day else people will not sleep well.in night.