Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[maximus777]

What does pak j35 change really..

I get there is some new capability but pak's problem is it's geography. all their assets are with the range of indian stand off weapons.

I prefer they spend money on a costly 5th generation fighters than on putting together a better AD (remember these are have high opex as well as up front costs)

As the recent events prove, a conflict with Pak will be a short sharp one. With stealth, PAF can probably accomplish what they couldn't do this time, i.e. to penetrate our air space and either attack our military sites and cities or cause significant damage to IAF. All this assuming the stealth actually works and our AD/CAP cannot intercept them. I wouldn't want to find this out under battle conditions though.

Money is not an object for Pak. Either they will finance it through IMF or get it for free from PRC in the guise of some geopolitical strategic game.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

As the recent events prove, a conflict with Pak will be a short sharp one. With stealth, PAF can probably accomplish what they couldn't do this time, i.e. to penetrate our air space and either attack our military sites and cities or cause significant damage to IAF. All this assuming the stealth actually works and our AD/CAP cannot intercept them. I wouldn't want to find this out under battle conditions though.

Money is not an object for Pak. Either they will finance it through IMF or get it for free from PRC in the guise of some geopolitical strategic game.

No stealth aircraft has penetrated multi-layed top end air defence in history so far - so whether a stealth aircraft CAN do that - is a matter of theory and claim than reality.

And there is a good reason why this theory hasnt been tested - even by China where they could easily fly their J-20 agains SoKo or our air defence.
This is because, stealth planes are NOT invisible to radar. They are practically invisible to high frequency x-band radar. Those are the ones air defence systems + combat planes +missiles use for radar.
But always remember, stealth, over the ENTIRE EM spectrum, is a case of ' you rob peter to pay paul' : stealth aircrafts ARE extremely visible to low resolution weather radars

Yes, weather radars suck in pin-point accuracy but hey....you never know what weird thing tech people can do, mating a weather radar to data filtration devices to a SAM battery- maybe they CAN shoot you down over their air-space by doing this - so why risk this, if you dont have to ?

Besides, i would be surprised if China trusts pakistan with more tech - last time Pakistan shat the bed with far superior tech to India was in 1971 - where PNS ghazi was supposed to be cutting edge US tech and their sherman tanks were faaaaaaaaaaaaaar better than our T-50s. But we schooled them.
And ever since, Pakis havent gotten a single high tech cutting edge thing from USA - even the F16s they got are 15 year old block A/B crap.
Why ?
Because once you shit the bed and lose with what was supposed to be unkillable weapon, your supplier isnt ever gonna trust your competency and would always err on side of caution to protect THEIR hardware reputation.

 

[aim120]

If Rafale is going to take the role of Mirage 2000 in delivering western air to ground munition at stand off distances, then there is no need for additional Rafale considering we will also have the M version. It's too expensive.

Might as well get the Su57, no matter what it will have a lower RCS, higher range and will most likely be able to launch Indian missiles compared to Rafale. It will also work with S70 should we need a heavy class drone. The fact that these two aircraft where seen flying above Ukraine city/town undetected by Patriot/S300 and entire NATO assests, shows that it works.

Su57M is the one which will be ordered in numbers by Russia. With lessons applied from Ukraine war.

 

[maximus777]

No stealth aircraft has penetrated multi-layed top end air defence in history so far - so whether a stealth aircraft CAN do that - is a matter of theory and claim than reality.

And there is a good reason why this theory hasnt been tested - even by China where they could easily fly their J-20 agains SoKo or our air defence.
This is because, stealth planes are NOT invisible to radar. They are practically invisible to high frequency x-band radar. Those are the ones air defence systems + combat planes +missiles use for radar.
But always remember, stealth, over the ENTIRE EM spectrum, is a case of ' you rob peter to pay paul' : stealth aircrafts ARE extremely visible to low resolution weather radars

Yes, weather radars suck in pin-point accuracy but hey....you never know what weird thing tech people can do, mating a weather radar to data filtration devices to a SAM battery- maybe they CAN shoot you down over their air-space by doing this - so why risk this, if you dont have to ?

Besides, i would be surprised if China trusts pakistan with more tech - last time Pakistan shat the bed with far superior tech to India was in 1971 - where PNS ghazi was supposed to be cutting edge US tech and their sherman tanks were faaaaaaaaaaaaaar better than our T-50s. But we schooled them.
And ever since, Pakis havent gotten a single high tech cutting edge thing from USA - even the F16s they got are 15 year old block A/B crap.
Why ?
Because once you shit the bed and lose with what was supposed to be unkillable weapon, your supplier isnt ever gonna trust your competency and would always err on side of caution to protect THEIR hardware reputation.

Granted the reputation of the wunderwaffen will take a hit, but it is the cheapest way to bleed India. I am certain the Turds and PRC will not miss this opportunity. Plus what have they got to lose? If sh.t hits the fan, it's the Pakis who get banged up. Just blame it on the lack of professionalism and training among Pak "aaand" forces just like the PL15 and HQ9 episode.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Granted the reputation of the wunderwaffen will take a hit, but it is the cheapest way to bleed India. I am certain the Turds and PRC will not miss this opportunity. Plus what have they got to lose? If sh.t hits the fan, it's the Pakis who get banged up. Just blame it on the lack of professionalism and training among Pak "aaand" forces just like the PL15 and HQ9 episode.

Pakis and turkis have nothing to lose by trashing their weapons platform's reputation. Its a game-changer for China and USA. So they are highly unlikely to give pakis any cutting edge tech.

 

[username unkown]

As the recent events prove, a conflict with Pak will be a short sharp one. With stealth, PAF can probably accomplish what they couldn't do this time, i.e. to penetrate our air space and either attack our military sites and cities or cause significant damage to IAF. All this assuming the stealth actually works and our AD/CAP cannot intercept them. I wouldn't want to find this out under battle conditions though.

Money is not an object for Pak. Either they will finance it through IMF or get it for free from PRC in the guise of some geopolitical strategic game.

Stealth isn't invisible no stealth aircraft is invisible on radar every one of them is detected stealth mean is late detection reportedly too late for air defence to react
A stealth wouldn't be successful in multi layered dense interconnected ADS such as ours you have to penetrate every layer
In future weare looking for induction of more indegenous ADS which is only going to make it more dense
And mind you india is currently fielding radar powerful enough to detect launch of pakistani missile so it can detect and track incoming stealth aircraft from long distance enough to react

 

[Doreamon]

Looking at this su 57 untill AMCA is ready seems somewhat more acceptable. It's unit cost 50 mil , manufacturing in india , super sonic missile , addition of Indian weapon and AMCA components we have developed so far .. The down side is it's not as stealthy as a 5th gen fighter jets should be but there are other benefits .. And the current geopolitics . I hope Ukraine war ends and Russia puts a condition of removal of catsa in peace offering .


View: https://youtu.be/NIYSKXqav-M?si=xV3cch0POsBDVW9e

 

[Drwho]

Looking at this su 57 untill AMCA is ready seems somewhat more acceptable. It's unit cost 50 mil , manufacturing in india , super sonic missile , addition of Indian weapon and AMCA components we have developed so far .. The down side is it's not as stealthy as a 5th gen fighter jets should be but there are other benefits .. And the current geopolitics . I hope Ukraine war ends and Russia puts a condition of removal of catsa in peace offering .


View: https://youtu.be/NIYSKXqav-M?si=xV3cch0POsBDVW9e

There is no invisible aircraft. We have seen times and times again. Even recently f35 had to save it self from houthis. It was a good pilot who saved the machine.
Even the failures it is facing despite its escalated cost of maintenance is a big concern.
Even su57 e will be not at par. With not as stealthy and advance electronics. It will face issues.
Only good planning and large number can evade shortcomings.
India have an option of manufacture and install it’s own and European components. That might help a bit.

Main deal is:
1. Political gains
2. Technology gains
3. Cost of manufacturing and maintenance
4. Strategic gains such as during war how much you depend on other nations.
5. Numbers you can produce.

I think su57e with new engine and nozzle takes a leap here. Rest we will see how world politics change in coming years.
But decision should be fast, as we are already too far behind.

 

[DancingPeacock]

All the talks of Su-57 is nonsense. It takes atleast 10 years for swapping all the electronics and integration of all the weapons for it to be any sort of meaningful combat capable aircraft.

Better invest more in Rocket Forces and SAM.

 

[silentassassin265]

Looking at this su 57 untill AMCA is ready seems somewhat more acceptable. It's unit cost 50 mil , manufacturing in india , super sonic missile , addition of Indian weapon and AMCA components we have developed so far .. The down side is it's not as stealthy as a 5th gen fighter jets should be but there are other benefits .. And the current geopolitics . I hope Ukraine war ends and Russia puts a condition of removal of catsa in peace offering .


View: https://youtu.be/NIYSKXqav-M?si=xV3cch0POsBDVW9e

Unit cost will be more than 100 mils, but as it will be made locally it will help our own industry.
Still better than buying more rafales as it will not be manufactured here

 

[silentassassin265]

All the talks of Su-57 is nonsense. It takes atleast 10 years for swapping all the electronics and integration of all the weapons for it to be any sort of meaningful combat capable aircraft.

Better invest more in Rocket Forces and SAM.

IAF made it clear that they will import and keep mmrca going.
We can just hope they won't buy any western platform

 

[shade2]

All the talks of Su-57 is nonsense. It takes atleast 10 years for swapping all the electronics and integration of all the weapons for it to be any sort of meaningful combat capable aircraft.

Better invest more in Rocket Forces and SAM.

For stealth only option has to be AMCA being fast tracked, do whatever it takes including getting a foreign partner if necessary, like the cockroaches did with BAE for their Kaane stealth jet.

 

[Drwho]

All the talks of Su-57 is nonsense. It takes atleast 10 years for swapping all the electronics and integration of all the weapons for it to be any sort of meaningful combat capable aircraft.

Better invest more in Rocket Forces and SAM.

This is crazy , maximum time it will take will be 18 months . Only that we have to include private players. Start induction of mark 1. A couple of squadron.
Hal should be kept busy with lca and amca.
Private players with some govt observation and few drdo + hal engineers should do it.

You can not depend on rocket forces and Sam for stealth age. Pakistan will get its first fifth gen in a year or more. Where would india get skills for amca and defence against sino pak ?

Some revolutionary decision needs to be taken. And BJP Govt can do it with full mandate.

 

[silentassassin265]

For stealth only option has to be AMCA being fast tracked, do whatever it takes including getting a foreign partner if necessary, like the cockroaches did with BAE for their Kaane stealth jet.

AMCA is still far away from prototype construction.
One the first flight is done they only we can order and it will be delivered 3 yrs later.
The first AMCA will arrive in 2030 if everything goes smoothly and by 2040 around 120 jets can be delivered.
Meanwhile if we order su57 in 2025, the imported jets will arrive by 2028 and by 2030 we will have 2 squadrons. And the locally made one will start arriving at 2030 in best case scenario