Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[MarDePopins]

Ofc they started earlier
But the point is super sukhoi tech will be comparable to j-16 which are available today
We can argue on GaN modules, we may have better avionics than them but either of us can't prove it
Today they have aesa radar maws ew suite modern cockpit newer jammers etc but we will get it post 2030s whereas they have deployed more than 300 aircrafts

We need to speed up

One disadvantage of su 30mki compared to j-16 will always be that j-16 is made up of significant amount of composite materials while even with su30mki upgrade there is no provision for upgrading it's all metal airframe to include composite material.

 

[ezsasa]

Yeah we shall leave HAL go scot free instead of HAL owning it's incompetence nd inefficiencies which were flagged in various CAG reports nd parliamentary committee on defence.. why?? only because HAL being a DPSU can't make public every information..

No we are not asking HAL to make information public every week..

Heck all we want is HAL to own up it's incompetence nd start delivering projects on stipulated timelines.

Just some of the few examples of HAL incompetence nd lapses..

Urgent need for HAL to transform from a reactive to a proactive R&D strategy: Parliamentary panel - The Tribune

The CAG had highlighted systemic lapses in HAL’s adherence to mandated pre-project processes, including the absence of PFRs in 18 out of 32 projects and DPRs in 29 out of 32 projects.

www.tribuneindia.com

Now what shall we do?? Sleep on it? HAL is a public listed companies where people hv invested their hard earned money on it's stocks .. HAL is answerable to every indian.

View attachment 36399

sure, if you want to go down this rabbit hole, let's do it.

post the original CAG report on which this news reports is based on, and the corresponding action report(or equivalent) by HAL management, in DPSU thread as a reply to this post. let's see where this goes.

 

[MarDePopins]

sure, if you want to go down this rabbit hole, let's do it.

post the original CAG report on which this news reports is based on, and the corresponding action report(or equivalent) by HAL management, in DPSU thread as a reply to this post. let's see where this goes.

Yeah close ur eyes and all ills will disappear.. voila..

All reports are false..IAF Chief is lying only HAL is shining light on truth yale..

CAG pulls up state-run HAL for mismanagement in aircraft engine project that caused loss of Rs 159-cr

In report on PSUs tabled in Parliament, auditor says Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd did not plan design and development activities properly, nor did it envisage the associated risks.

theprint.in

House panel slams HAL 'inefficiencies' | India News - The Times of India

India News: Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) is under criticism for delays in Tejas fighter jet production and safety checks of Dhruv helicopters. A parliamentary pane

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/cag-criticises-hindustan-aeronautics-limited-for-delay-and-cost-overruns-in-development-of-jet-engines

Audit Reports | Director General of Audit, Defence Services, New Delhi

cag.gov.in

https://www.business-standard.com/india-news/hal-failure-to-anticipate-easa-norms-led-to-longer-compliance-checks-cag-123081100013_1.html

CAG raps Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for 'failing' to develop jam-resistant radio sets

CAG has rapped Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for failing to develop jam-resistant and secure radio sets required by IAF.

m.economictimes.com

Delays Persist - The Statesman

The recent criticism of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), India’s state-run aerospace manufacturer, by the Chief of Air Staff underscores a longstanding issue ~ chronic inefficiencies in defence production that compromise national security.

www.thestatesman.com

Heck HAL hasn't even delivered all of 40 tejas IAF ordered way back in 2010..

 

[Drwho]

Yeah close ur eyes and all ills will disappear.. voila..

All reports are false..IAF Chief is lying only HAL is shining light on truth yale..

CAG pulls up state-run HAL for mismanagement in aircraft engine project that caused loss of Rs 159-cr

In report on PSUs tabled in Parliament, auditor says Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd did not plan design and development activities properly, nor did it envisage the associated risks.

theprint.in

House panel slams HAL 'inefficiencies' | India News - The Times of India

India News: Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) is under criticism for delays in Tejas fighter jet production and safety checks of Dhruv helicopters. A parliamentary pane

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/cag-criticises-hindustan-aeronautics-limited-for-delay-and-cost-overruns-in-development-of-jet-engines

Audit Reports | Director General of Audit, Defence Services, New Delhi

cag.gov.in

https://www.business-standard.com/india-news/hal-failure-to-anticipate-easa-norms-led-to-longer-compliance-checks-cag-123081100013_1.html

CAG raps Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for 'failing' to develop jam-resistant radio sets

CAG has rapped Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for failing to develop jam-resistant and secure radio sets required by IAF.

m.economictimes.com

Delays Persist - The Statesman

The recent criticism of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), India’s state-run aerospace manufacturer, by the Chief of Air Staff underscores a longstanding issue ~ chronic inefficiencies in defence production that compromise national security.

www.thestatesman.com

Heck HAL hasn't even delivered all of 40 tejas IAF ordered way back in 2010..

The Project Delays were more than 40 Years!)

Initiated in 1983, first flight only in 2001.

Full operational clearance in 2019.

As of 2024, less than 40 aircraft delivered — far short of IAF needs.
Performance Shortfalls

Early Tejas variants had limitations in range, payload, and radar capabilities.

Navy rejected the naval version due to poor power-to-weight ratio (underpowered with GE-F404 engine).
Low Production Rates
HAL’s production line couldn’t scale. Initially 8 aircraft/year — painfully slow.

Only recently they are targeting 16 year. Depending on provisions of all components delivery.

Lack of Indigenous Components

Engine (GE), radar (Elta), and several avionics systems were imported.

Shows ADA’s struggle with developing core technologies in-house

 

[ezsasa]

Yeah close ur eyes and all ills will disappear.. voila..

All reports are false..IAF Chief is lying only HAL is shining light on truth yale..

CAG pulls up state-run HAL for mismanagement in aircraft engine project that caused loss of Rs 159-cr

In report on PSUs tabled in Parliament, auditor says Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd did not plan design and development activities properly, nor did it envisage the associated risks.

theprint.in

House panel slams HAL 'inefficiencies' | India News - The Times of India

India News: Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) is under criticism for delays in Tejas fighter jet production and safety checks of Dhruv helicopters. A parliamentary pane

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/cag-criticises-hindustan-aeronautics-limited-for-delay-and-cost-overruns-in-development-of-jet-engines

Audit Reports | Director General of Audit, Defence Services, New Delhi

cag.gov.in

https://www.business-standard.com/india-news/hal-failure-to-anticipate-easa-norms-led-to-longer-compliance-checks-cag-123081100013_1.html

CAG raps Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for 'failing' to develop jam-resistant radio sets

CAG has rapped Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for failing to develop jam-resistant and secure radio sets required by IAF.

m.economictimes.com

Delays Persist - The Statesman

The recent criticism of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), India’s state-run aerospace manufacturer, by the Chief of Air Staff underscores a longstanding issue ~ chronic inefficiencies in defence production that compromise national security.

www.thestatesman.com

Heck HAL hasn't even delivered all of 40 tejas IAF ordered way back in 2010..

which specific point in this CAG report that has been posted above are we supposed to take up?

 

[MarDePopins]

The Project Delays were more than 40 Years!)

Initiated in 1983, first flight only in 2001.

Full operational clearance in 2019.

As of 2024, less than 40 aircraft delivered — far short of IAF needs.
Performance Shortfalls

Early Tejas variants had limitations in range, payload, and radar capabilities.

Navy rejected the naval version due to poor power-to-weight ratio (underpowered with GE-F404 engine).
Low Production Rates
HAL’s production line couldn’t scale. Initially 8 aircraft/year — painfully slow.

Only recently they are targeting 16 year. Depending on provisions of all components delivery.

Lack of Indigenous Components

Engine (GE), radar (Elta), and several avionics systems were imported.

Shows ADA’s struggle with developing core technologies in-house

We need some accountability on the heads of all DPSUs making merry on chai biscuit work culture.

We are surrounded by a hostile neighbourhood where on west we have a rabid terrorist state paxtan whose sole existence is to bleed india by thousands cut nd on north we have belligerent CHINA with all it's industrial might nd ever growing military strengths has expansionist design to hurt india by salami slicing and claims large swaps of indian land.

We can't afford to hv laggard nd incompetent DPSUs with the level of threat we face.

 

[MarDePopins]

which specific point in this CAG report that has been posted above are we supposed to take up?

LMAO.. take up anything u want .. prove HAL is shining bacon of truth nd IAF chief is lying.. CAG is lying..

Start with this report

Urgent need for HAL to transform from a reactive to a proactive R&D strategy: Parliamentary panel - The Tribune

The CAG had highlighted systemic lapses in HAL’s adherence to mandated pre-project processes, including the absence of PFRs in 18 out of 32 projects and DPRs in 29 out of 32 projects.

www.tribuneindia.com

 

[FalconSlayers]

Precisely why IAF should double down on CATS Warriors, SWiFT and Ghatak. CATS Warrior and SWiFT prototypes exist, Ghatak prototype under construction. These propellor MALE drones are useful only for surveillance or limited strikes on sites with no air defence cover, that too when operated in large numbers.

View: https://x.com/joe_sameer/status/1924024156833870244


Also I wonder, we have Manik (STFE) why not make a HALE UCAV like recent chinese WZ-10?

 

[ezsasa]

LMAO.. take up anything u want .. prove HAL is shining bacon of truth nd IAF chief is lying.. CAG is lying..

Start with this report

Urgent need for HAL to transform from a reactive to a proactive R&D strategy: Parliamentary panel - The Tribune

The CAG had highlighted systemic lapses in HAL’s adherence to mandated pre-project processes, including the absence of PFRs in 18 out of 32 projects and DPRs in 29 out of 32 projects.

www.tribuneindia.com

you seem to have some confusion about nature of our conversation, note the tone of my replies in this convo so far. i'll drop out from the convo.

 

[MarDePopins]

you seem to have some confusion about nature of our conversation, note the tone of my replies in this convo so far. i'll drop out from the convo.

Oki sure.. let's agree to disagree.. i hold my right to call out HAL or even IAF that matter as both are employees of MOD.. while my money will be on the one who fights the real enemy.

 

[ezsasa]

Oki sure.. let's agree to disagree.. i hold my right to call out HAL or even IAF that matter as both are employees of MOD.. while my money will be on the one who fights the real enemy.

even better, take it up with HAL directly. nobody from HAL or MoD is going to read your posts here.

 

[shade2]

Precisely why IAF should double down on CATS Warriors, SWiFT and Ghatak. CATS Warrior and SWiFT prototypes exist, Ghatak prototype under construction. These propellor MALE drones are useful only for surveillance or limited strikes on sites with no air defence cover, that too when operated in large numbers.

View: https://x.com/joe_sameer/status/1924024156833870244


Also I wonder, we have Manik (STFE) why not make a HALE UCAV like recent chinese WZ-10?

Could a combination of CATS Warrior type drone carrying bvraams and AWACS guiding said missiles work?

In addition we can combine the "increased RCS" scam that was used on the target drones to deceive the piglets

Except this time the drone carries dakka

 

[FalconSlayers]

Could a combination of CATS Warrior type drone carrying bvraams and AWACS guiding said missiles work?

In addition we can combine the "increased RCS" scam that was used on the target drones to deceive the piglets

Except this time the drone carries dakka

Yes, there's a bigger CATS Warrior variant being proposed. Probably will use HTFE-25 engines. They will effectively have capability to carry BVRs. Current prototype can carry only ASRAAMs for self defence.

A single unit of Warrior costs the same as a surface-to-surface subsonic cruise missile (as per HVT).

 

[MarDePopins]

even better, take it up with HAL directly. nobody from HAL or MoD is going to read your posts here.

Ohh really.. this is a defence forum.. all hv right to raise their opinion.. why are u getting worked up?

Simply ignore nd refrain from replying

 

[ezsasa]

Ohh really.. this is a defence forum.. all hv right to raise their opinion.. why are u getting worked up?

Simply ignore nd refrain from replying

that's a lot of shitposting on same topic in one day across two threads.
you have the opportunity on this forum to explore in depth on topics you care about, utilise it.
CAG reports, news reports are very superficial. they don't tell you what happened after an issue has been raised.


No, you don't have rights here. Mods will clean the thread if deemed necessary.

Yeah things are even appalling for chai biscuit work culture of HAL when it's receives a rap in the wrist from AIR CHIEF..

From delivery delays to lack of ‘mission mode’: Air Chief Marshal AP Singh’s concerns with HAL over Tejas

Air Chief Marshal A P Singh has emphasised the need for HAL to invest in advanced manufacturing processes and up-skill manpower.

indianexpress.com

nd to add insult to injury HAL has not even delivered all of 40 tejas IAF ordered in 2010..lol View attachment 36392

Few examples of HAL incompetence nd it's shambolic work culture where it has costed loss of crores of rupees (159 crores in one such project alone) nd persistent delays in all it's projects.

Now one can give whatever excuse to defend HAL but things are evident for everyone of us to pay heed.

CAG pulls up HAL for serious design lapses in engine that led to loss of ₹159 crore

CAG indicts HAL for serious lapses in aircraft engine design and development, leading to ₹159.23 cr loss. Flaws like incorrect assessment of thrust, lack of clarity on engine selection, improper planning & no business plan led to delays & wasteful expenditure.

www.thehindubusinessline.com

Urgent need for HAL to transform from a reactive to a proactive R&D strategy: Parliamentary panel - The Tribune

The CAG had highlighted systemic lapses in HAL’s adherence to mandated pre-project processes, including the absence of PFRs in 18 out of 32 projects and DPRs in 29 out of 32 projects.

www.tribuneindia.com

Govt seems to be sleeping on HAL inefficiencies while IAF is crying at the sight of dwindling squadron strengths.


As i hv proved earlier HAL hasn't even delivered all of 40 tejas IAF ordered way back in 2010 lol.. that's height of incompetence.

Lol what's more worrying is super sukhoi IOC only will take 5-6 years from now on lol..lol.

That's criminal..

So IAF will get upgraded su30s from 2031-32 .. iam pulling my hair listening to it's timelines

Yeah we shall leave HAL go scot free instead of HAL owning it's incompetence nd inefficiencies which were flagged in various CAG reports nd parliamentary committee on defence.. why?? only because HAL being a DPSU can't make public every information..

No we are not asking HAL to make information public every week..

Heck all we want is HAL to own up it's incompetence nd start delivering projects on stipulated timelines.

Just some of the few examples of HAL incompetence nd lapses..

Urgent need for HAL to transform from a reactive to a proactive R&D strategy: Parliamentary panel - The Tribune

The CAG had highlighted systemic lapses in HAL’s adherence to mandated pre-project processes, including the absence of PFRs in 18 out of 32 projects and DPRs in 29 out of 32 projects.

www.tribuneindia.com

Now what shall we do?? Sleep on it? HAL is a public listed companies where people hv invested their hard earned money on it's stocks .. HAL is answerable to every indian.

View attachment 36399

Yeah close ur eyes and all ills will disappear.. voila..

All reports are false..IAF Chief is lying only HAL is shining light on truth yale..

CAG pulls up state-run HAL for mismanagement in aircraft engine project that caused loss of Rs 159-cr

In report on PSUs tabled in Parliament, auditor says Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd did not plan design and development activities properly, nor did it envisage the associated risks.

theprint.in

House panel slams HAL 'inefficiencies' | India News - The Times of India

India News: Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) is under criticism for delays in Tejas fighter jet production and safety checks of Dhruv helicopters. A parliamentary pane

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/cag-criticises-hindustan-aeronautics-limited-for-delay-and-cost-overruns-in-development-of-jet-engines

Audit Reports | Director General of Audit, Defence Services, New Delhi

cag.gov.in

https://www.business-standard.com/india-news/hal-failure-to-anticipate-easa-norms-led-to-longer-compliance-checks-cag-123081100013_1.html

CAG raps Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for 'failing' to develop jam-resistant radio sets

CAG has rapped Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for failing to develop jam-resistant and secure radio sets required by IAF.

m.economictimes.com

Delays Persist - The Statesman

The recent criticism of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), India’s state-run aerospace manufacturer, by the Chief of Air Staff underscores a longstanding issue ~ chronic inefficiencies in defence production that compromise national security.

www.thestatesman.com

Heck HAL hasn't even delivered all of 40 tejas IAF ordered way back in 2010..

We need some accountability on the heads of all DPSUs making merry on chai biscuit work culture.

We are surrounded by a hostile neighbourhood where on west we have a rabid terrorist state paxtan whose sole existence is to bleed india by thousands cut nd on north we have belligerent CHINA with all it's industrial might nd ever growing military strengths has expansionist design to hurt india by salami slicing and claims large swaps of indian land.

We can't afford to hv laggard nd incompetent DPSUs with the level of threat we face.

LMAO.. take up anything u want .. prove HAL is shining bacon of truth nd IAF chief is lying.. CAG is lying..

Start with this report

Urgent need for HAL to transform from a reactive to a proactive R&D strategy: Parliamentary panel - The Tribune

The CAG had highlighted systemic lapses in HAL’s adherence to mandated pre-project processes, including the absence of PFRs in 18 out of 32 projects and DPRs in 29 out of 32 projects.

www.tribuneindia.com

 

[shade2]

Yes, there's a bigger CATS Warrior variant being proposed. Probably will use HTFE-25 engines. They will effectively have capability to carry BVRs. Current prototype can carry only ASRAAMs for self defence.

A single unit of Warrior costs the same as a surface-to-surface subsonic cruise missile (as per HVT).

imo for a large one they should go for RD33 engine, make it dedicated A2A BVRAAM carrier, cats warrior is supposed to be for bombing no?

Like this Saab loyal wingman concept



Or Chong's Dark Sword drone

 

[bakofbakchod]

Has rudram1 even been ordered? What is the status of this report from 2 years back?

IAF set to place Rs 1,400 cr order for new age missiles to destroy enemy radars

The next-generation anti-radiation missiles have already been tested by the Indian Air Force from its Sukhoi-30 fighter aircraft fleet and can destroy enemy radar locations during conflicts, ANI reported quoting officials. The destruction of radar systems can help the Indian Air Force to strike...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[FalconSlayers]

Has rudram1 even been ordered? What is the status of this report from 2 years back?

IAF set to place Rs 1,400 cr order for new age missiles to destroy enemy radars

The next-generation anti-radiation missiles have already been tested by the Indian Air Force from its Sukhoi-30 fighter aircraft fleet and can destroy enemy radar locations during conflicts, ANI reported quoting officials. The destruction of radar systems can help the Indian Air Force to strike...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Not yet ordered. Nirbhay, SMART, LRAShM etc are still "under trials".

 

[liberalredditor]

HLFT 42 is a shit plane no matter how you look at it.

It's a pricier Tejas with none of the goodies.

You want a next gen trainer Just Slap two HTFE 40 and be done with it, just like that you have more redundant and more indigenous Trainer who's main purpose is to actually act like a trainer and not a knockoff Tejas

Well there's a serious issue with hal, they havent yet integrated eq suite in prachanda, no atgm integrated till now
Htt40 and hjt36 in the timeline since late 1500s, cant even design and make a basic and intermediate trainer and they call themselves aerospace oem lol
htfe 25 dissapeared, leave the htfe 40, it was all fantasies ki ye kardenge, wo kardenge aur fir aisa ho jayega

Hal cannot be trusted with our backbone, and most important aircrafts like tejas mk2 and amca, we need to give to a consortium of pvt firms like tasl, bf, dynamatics, azad, l&t etc etc

Hal has some really good revenue and profit, if they use even a fraction of it properly, they can improve

Lets forget about the helicopter division of hal, i hope its given to drdo with some new lab made for rotary platforms, dpsu except bel are pure shit

 

[Spitfire IX]

Now we can say that f35 twin engine would be a copy of amca and j35

No more amca copy of f22 f35 bs

Time is of the essence, so a new design is out of the question for India. Until 6G aircraft come along, F-35 is the benchmark. Like F-22, I don't think that NGAD will be for export, which might explain the F-55 idea. That leaves India FCAS (looking shaky at the moment) and GCAP to choose from for an advanced fighter pre-2040. At the moment GCAP looks the more likely to roll off the line mid/late 2030's.