Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[shade2]

The question isn't just about manufacturing. It's about development and it certainly isn't about current priorities. It was criticized a decade ago for being underpowered and the IAF which is a loyal and bulk customer of Sukhoi and Russian aviation itself has shown great skepticism to the endeavor. The Russians apparently finished testing it in early 2010s and wished to place a lot of orders around 2015 onwards, which did not materialize. It's the same question that was raised for us when we tried to export Tejas - if the country that developed the jet itself isn't buying, why would anyone else?

For all we know, if we panic buy the Su-57, we might end up handholding it to the performance we desire and the time it would take us to do this would be comparable to the time and money we have/will have to invest in AMCA, for which we have greater liberty due to it being indigenous design on top of indigenous manufacturing.

Su-57 is a scam.
F-35 isn't happening.

For muh modern fighter just do the G2G for IAF Rafales

Baaki ka fast track Tejas mk2 and AMCA, there's no other choice.

Also radar maxxxing, SAM maxxing has to be done in parallel, along with AWACS and ELINT aircraft purchases

All of which need the govt to open it's wallet to the fullest.

 

[silentassassin265]

Su-57 is a scam.
F-35 isn't happening.

For muh modern fighter just do the G2G for IAF Rafales

Baaki ka fast track Tejas mk2 and AMCA, there's no other choice.

Also radar maxxxing, SAM maxxing has to be done in parallel, along with AWACS and ELINT aircraft purchases

All of which need the govt to open it's wallet to the fullest.

Even we we get 200 MK1A 200 mk2
We still won't have 42 squadron as jaguar and m2k are supposed to retire

220 MK1A+ 200mk2 +36 rf + 272 su30 + 50 mig 29

That's still 38 squadron without AMCA considering burgericans won't stop engines delivery

 

[Anupu]

Whole forum is slapping this alt-account tard yet he does the lowest IQ dalali of F-35
I guess that is why he isn't posting from his main vin_pahadi_kumaoni

From the official segments all you get is "It's not on offer for now" and "maybe we will look at it for the future" but this fool is already high on his ganja of "Israeli Adir F-35 for India"



Assembly will be bottle-necked by the russian supply chain which on their end is being prioritized for immediate war time needs.

It's basically the same deal as Tejas dependent on gold-plated americunt engine with MTBO of over 900000 gorilllion hours, much better than Russian engine's MBTO of 3.50 hours which is why it was chosen a decade back without taking into consideration the unreliability of the supplier

See the thing is it could be an offer and there could be discussions but that’s speculation and we can discuss the merits and demerits of such an hypothetical offer. Problem is bhai sahab or behan ji has issues with opinions of others at the same time.

No one present here has created this situation I for one wanted a full 126 aircraft mmrca. So it’s not even a question of indigenous brigade as many people keep cribbing about.

But does that mean I start believing that an aircraft that has a history of coming with strings attached will be given to us in a no strings attached configuration as a “fact” without any evidence we are being offered that configuration.

 

[Anupu]

In fact let’s really discuss:
What if F-35 was offered seriously?
1) In a no strings attached configuration? (Source code + mission data access)
2) In a strings attached configuration and we still buy it considering we have been attempting to bend over backwards to accommodate the Americans these days.

1) would automatically raise the questions of this possibility how likely is it? It would definitely signal improvement in US India relations. Could certainly provide a buffer and more for AMCA

2) More likely among the two. Would signal most likely an effort to suck up to Americans. And an increasingly directionless IAF which earlier thought Rafale has electronic stealth and was proven wrong. Now is desperate for a platform to pierce non functional PAF air defence.


You see why I have my doubts about the whole idea of buying it.

 

[shade2]

In fact let’s really discuss:
What if F-35 was offered seriously?
1) In a no strings attached configuration?
2) In a strings attached configuration and we still buy it considering we have been attempting to bend over backwards to accommodate the Americans these days.

Bending backwards is one thing, selling our soul to them is another so no.

Bending backwards would be us buying 114 F-16 because the Orange Ape was pushing for it.

For all members with working brains, I'd just point out the ((( conditions ))) for F-35 were so onerous that the Emiratis got triggered and bought 80 Rafales instead.

Now UAE is a country with multiple gora bases and is a loyal vassal for many gora countries, mainly because their sheikhs like to keep their ass on their throne.

UAE is also the best bum-buddy of Israel in the whole Gulf area right now so the usual excuse of "Israel would be upset, Israel would lose tech advantage in ME" also goes out of the window.

You can use your imagination as to what these ((( conditions ))) were that even the Gulfies were ticked off so badly they bought 80 Rafales out of spite.

If they weren't selling to these money-bags and mostly spineless vassal sheikhs, can you really think they'd sell it to the #1 practitioner of Strategic Autonomy with his 70% Russian inventory and fancy S400s?

 

[Anupu]

Bending backwards is one thing, selling our soul to them is another so no.

Bending backwards would be us buying 114 F-16 because the Orange Ape was pushing for it.

For all members with working brains, I'd just point out the ((( conditions ))) for F-35 were so onerous that the Emiratis got triggered and bought 80 Rafales instead.

Now UAE is a country with multiple gora bases and is a loyal vassal for many gora countries, mainly because their sheikhs like to keep their ass on their throne.

UAE is also the best bum-buddy of Israel in the whole Gulf area right now so the usual excuse of "Israel would be upset, Israel would lose tech advantage in ME" also goes out of the window.

You can use your imagination as to what these ((( conditions ))) were that even the Gulfies were ticked off so badly they bought 80 Rafales out of spite.

If they weren't selling to these money-bags and mostly spineless vassal sheikhs, can you really think they'd sell it to the #1 practitioner of Strategic Autonomy with his 70% Russian inventory and fancy S400s?

I agree it would be too far even for Indian Government.

 

[shade2]

Even we we get 200 MK1A 200 mk2
We still won't have 42 squadron as jaguar and m2k are supposed to retire

220 MK1A+ 200mk2 +36 rf + 272 su30 + 50 mig 29

That's still 38 squadron without AMCA considering burgericans won't stop engines delivery

They should get 72 Rafale in G2G if not the whole 114 jets order.
In exchange for local private sector owned assembly line and parts being built here for global dassault supply like the fuselage is currently.
In addition Safran should provide support to get Kaveri in the spec IAF wants it to be.

Future acquisitions should be Rafale in immediate term, then Tejas mk2( or gripen with equivalent ToT and ability to integrate our own weapons, they are sem2sem almost ) and AMCA.

If govt is feeling particularly ballsy, 5 sqdrns/90 Su30s could also be ordered with the Super Sukhoi package included, like the 3 scorpenes will come out of the yard with DRDO AIP integrated

 

[concard]

They should get 72 Rafale in G2G if not the whole 114 jets order.
In exchange for local private sector owned assembly line and parts being built here for global dassault supply like the fuselage is currently.
In addition Safran should provide support to get Kaveri in the spec IAF wants it to be.

Future acquisitions should be Rafale in immediate term, then Tejas mk2( or gripen with equivalent ToT and ability to integrate our own weapons, they are sem2sem almost ) and AMCA.

If govt is feeling particularly ballsy, 5 sqdrns/90 Su30s could also be ordered with the Super Sukhoi package included, like the 3 scorpenes will come out of the yard with DRDO AIP integrated

Not happening. French are playing hard ball just to give us the source code. We better have that in one of the conditions that we need the source code to integrate our own weapons on to Rafale. That along with manufacturing of spare parts within the country to make sure we are not at the mercy of Dassault to get it imported every time we need it. I am in favor of Rafale. But I hope we first understand what we are getting into. We should have done that when we signed the Rafale-N deal recently. Dangle the carrot in front of them, they might yield. Most likely they will as they have planned to setup MRO facility for Rafale Jets in India.

Also I hope we are getting updated Rafale F5 when we order another batch. We already developed missiles like Astra MK1, MK2, and upcoming MK3, SAAW, Rudram 1 and 2, Tara, Gaurav etc. We don't need meteor, scalp, or hammer every time we want to go on strike missions. GoI should bite the bullet and go for another 36 Rafales without delay.

 

[sameer]

In fact let’s really discuss:
What if F-35 was offered seriously?
1) In a no strings attached configuration? (Source code + mission data access)
2) In a strings attached configuration and we still buy it considering we have been attempting to bend over backwards to accommodate the Americans these days.

1) would automatically raise the questions of this possibility how likely is it? It would definitely signal improvement in US India relations. Could certainly provide a buffer and more for AMCA

2) More likely among the two. Would signal most likely an effort to suck up to Americans. And an increasingly directionless IAF which earlier thought Rafale has electronic stealth and was proven wrong. Now is desperate for a platform to pierce non functional PAF air defence.


You see why I have my doubts about the whole idea of buying it.

In the scenario that they do formally offer us the F35 and we somehow decide to procure it, it's pretty much guaranteed that it will come with severe end user restrictions.

And they most likely won't let us use it against China before the Taiwan invasion, nor will it be allowed to cross the IB. The last thing Yanks want is the Chinks to gather more info about their wunderwaffe before the Taiwan match starts.

 

[shade2]

In the scenario that they do formally offer us the F35 and we somehow decide to procure it, it's pretty much guaranteed that it will come with severe end user restrictions.

And they most likely won't let us use it against China before the Taiwan invasion, nor will it be allowed to cross the IB. The last thing Yanks want is the Chinks to gather more info about their wunderwaffe before the Taiwan match starts.

Buying Amerishart gear will force us into a Greece-Turkey style setup.

It is why the Turkroaches are trying to get a domestic defense industry going.

They can't use their Uncle-provided gear to do a Ghazwa -e- Yunanistan

You can kiss any Op Sindoors and Balakot's good bye with F-35, even during a Swift Retard, Uncle won't give the written permission necessary to use your F-35 against the J-35, leading to your f-35 being a glorified hangar queen

 

[Ajatshatru]

View: https://youtu.be/iM--G0bXYfQ?si=ySM-R1oU8UbtHRMN

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Till now Rafale Mission computer is not given access to us to do the integration. So far it is using the existing French/UK weapons it was integrated.

Also the 114 deal, we don't know the terms and conditions.

Currently DRDO and Co. Developed everything we want for an aerial platform.

1. Radar - Uttam, Viruphaksha.
2. BVR Missile - Astra MK1, MK2 and Gandiva (3)
3. Anti Radiation Missile - NGRAM 1.
4. Air to Surface Missile - Rudram 2 (Anti Radiation/Surface Missile), A.
5. Anti Airfield Missile - SAAW
6. CCM - ASRAAM (BDL is manufacturing in India).
7. Bombs of older varieties.

This is the entire arsenal of weapons we have developed which has been tested on Tejas MK1, MK1A, Sukhoi MKI, Jaguar, Mirage 2k.

Till now we did not see the integration of above systems in Rafale. We got the Comms system as per our IACCS standard.

Also in Development from DRDO.

1. Air to Surface Missile - NG, ITCM (Air Launched version), CATS Hunter (desi scalp).
2. Bombs - Gaurav, Gautam, TARA, JSR Khagantak.
3. OLS
4. DARE ASPJ for MK2, MKI and AMCA.

These weapons, Radar, EW systems should be integrated to the aircraft we are buying. Otherwise some billion dollar went into drain since we are not going to attach anything. For now the Rafale we bought is in this condition. As per certain folks Daddy Russians will give all the access to integrate these platforms. Also some person is full belief that an F35 will use all the technology. We can say lets throw this out. But at the end, these projects were basically the tax we payed. So everything will be in drain.

Swallow the Red pill and work on Aero engines. Once you got the Aero engines you can build whatever fighter we can build. Heck we can build an freaking long range Bomber with our engine.

Chinese just developed their WS10 which is an AL31 spec engine. Look at them that engine is working on J10, twin engine config for their Flankers which lot of them were build unlicensed and they don't give fuck . Same engine used for J20 which is around 300 now, the engine as base used to build an transport aircraft engine in the form Y20. The same engine will be used in J35. The engine at max is an 4.5 gen engine. But since chinese have the working engine they put three engine in J36 and testing it out. It does not matter for them, they are getting an big ass plane with bigger range, longer loitering time, higher power generation so they can test DEW weapons in future.

High time for us to plane for engine. Otherwise you will get shafted around by spending billions.

In automobile TATA motors failed to build any useful Engines for their Passenger division. For their so called Flagship Harrier and Safari they are using Fiat 2.0 L engine which produces 170HP. That engine is becoming old and competitor like Mahindra invested in Engine development came with MHAWK 2.2 which produces around 185 HP.

The sales were going down due to this engine and when TATA asked Fiat to allow them to increase the power output to 200HP. Fiat asked hefty amount and TATA decided to put down the proposal. Now TATA is struggling in Automobile scene this year.

 

[concard]

Till now Rafale Mission computer is not given access to us to do the integration. So far it is using the existing French/UK weapons it was integrated.

Also the 114 deal, we don't know the terms and conditions.

Currently DRDO and Co. Developed everything we want for an aerial platform.

1. Radar - Uttam, Viruphaksha.
2. BVR Missile - Astra MK1, MK2 and Gandiva (3)
3. Anti Radiation Missile - NGRAM 1.
4. Air to Surface Missile - Rudram 2 (Anti Radiation/Surface Missile), A.
5. Anti Airfield Missile - SAAW
6. CCM - ASRAAM (BDL is manufacturing in India).
7. Bombs of older varieties.

This is the entire arsenal of weapons we have developed which has been tested on Tejas MK1, MK1A, Sukhoi MKI, Jaguar, Mirage 2k.

Till now we did not see the integration of above systems in Rafale. We got the Comms system as per our IACCS standard.

Also in Development from DRDO.

1. Air to Surface Missile - NG, ITCM (Air Launched version), CATS Hunter (desi scalp).
2. Bombs - Gaurav, Gautam, TARA, JSR Khagantak.
3. OLS
4. DARE ASPJ for MK2, MKI and AMCA.

These weapons, Radar, EW systems should be integrated to the aircraft we are buying. Otherwise some billion dollar went into drain since we are not going to attach anything. For now the Rafale we bought is in this condition. As per certain folks Daddy Russians will give all the access to integrate these platforms. Also some person is full belief that an F35 will use all the technology. We can say lets throw this out. But at the end, these projects were basically the tax we payed. So everything will be in drain.

Swallow the Red pill and work on Aero engines. Once you got the Aero engines you can build whatever fighter we can build. Heck we can build an freaking long range Bomber with our engine.

Chinese just developed their WS10 which is an AL31 spec engine. Look at them that engine is working on J10, twin engine config for their Flankers which lot of them were build unlicensed and they don't give fuck . Same engine used for J20 which is around 300 now, the engine as base used to build an transport aircraft engine in the form Y20. The same engine will be used in J35. The engine at max is an 4.5 gen engine. But since chinese have the working engine they put three engine in J36 and testing it out. It does not matter for them, they are getting an big ass plane with bigger range, longer loitering time, higher power generation so they can test DEW weapons in future.

High time for us to plane for engine. Otherwise you will get shafted around by spending billions.

In automobile TATA motors failed to build any useful Engines for their Passenger division. For their so called Flagship Harrier and Safari they are using Fiat 2.0 L engine which produces 170HP. That engine is becoming old and competitor like Mahindra invested in Engine development came with MHAWK 2.2 which produces around 185 HP.

The sales were going down due to this engine and when TATA asked Fiat to allow them to increase the power output to 200HP. Fiat asked hefty amount and TATA decided to put down the proposal. Now TATA is struggling in Automobile scene this year.

Since our folks are too bothered about J-31 being offered to Porkistan, we should have discussion about the same briefly. Some reports are suggesting they will deliver this year itself which looks preposterous to me. It is true like as you said Chinese knowledge of aero engines are completely from Russia. Don't know whether they are as good as the original Russian ones. In order to have strategic autonomy they have swallowed the bitter pill. The fact that they strapped 3 engines to test their new fighter clearly shows they are struggling to increase the thrust just like us with Kaveri Engine.

Now with respect to Chinese fighters, what are the recent developments they have made with respect to Engine, AESA radar, Electronic warfare, missiles etc? Do we have any information we can consider authentic without any of their cheap propaganda? Have they been tested? Even a simple statistic like Mean time between overhaul (MTO) about their Engines can give us a good idea about their advancements in Engine technology. I was not able to get any credible information about their weapon systems anywhere.

However, I did read about their air force joint exercise with Thai air force. This report is 10 years old. PLAAF were knocked out by Thai air force Gripen fighters in Beyond visual range combat. They did better at within visual range combat. That does tell that they don't have much situational awareness in BVR combat. They had a exercise last year with Thai air force as well. But I could not find much about their performance.

Thailand's JAS39 Gripen "Shoot Down" 41 China's Shenyang J-11 in Joint Air Exercise - Defence Security Asia

The JAS39 Gripen fighter jets of the Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) have reportedly demonstrated excellent performance when faced with China's Shenyang J-11 aircraft (a variant of the Su-27) during the joint air exercise "Falcon Strike" in 2015.

defencesecurityasia.com

 

[Gyyaan]

Since our folks are too bothered about J-31 being offered to Porkistan, we should have discussion about the same briefly. Some reports are suggesting they will deliver this year itself which looks preposterous to me. It is true like as you said Chinese knowledge of aero engines are completely from Russia. Don't know whether they are as good as the original Russian ones. In order to have strategic autonomy they have swallowed the bitter pill. The fact that they strapped 3 engines to test their new fighter clearly shows they are struggling to increase the thrust just like us with Kaveri Engine.

Now with respect to Chinese fighters, what are the recent developments they have made with respect to Engine, AESA radar, Electronic warfare, missiles etc? Do we have any information we can consider authentic without any of their cheap propaganda? Have they been tested? Even a simple statistic like Mean time between overhaul (MTO) about their Engines can give us a good idea about their advancements in Engine technology. I was not able to get any credible information about their weapon systems anywhere.

However, I did read about their air force joint exercise with Thai air force. This report is 10 years old. PLAAF were knocked out by Thai air force Gripen fighters in Beyond visual range combat. They did better at within visual range combat. That does tell that they don't have much situational awareness in BVR combat. They had a exercise last year with Thai air force as well. But I could not find much about their performance.

Thailand's JAS39 Gripen "Shoot Down" 41 China's Shenyang J-11 in Joint Air Exercise - Defence Security Asia

The JAS39 Gripen fighter jets of the Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) have reportedly demonstrated excellent performance when faced with China's Shenyang J-11 aircraft (a variant of the Su-27) during the joint air exercise "Falcon Strike" in 2015.

defencesecurityasia.com

That's 10 year old after that they bribed retired NATO pilots and were trained by them.
Invested heavily in LRAAM, AESA Radars , AWACS and EW systems.
Forget 10 years 5 years ago American EW(FA-18) toyed with a Chinese Destroyer using their extensive EW capability,PLAN destroyers failed to get a lock on Hornets and exactly a year ago Chinese showed exceptional networking Capability and got a lock on those FA-18 using Co-operative engagement in a EW heavy Environment.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Since our folks are too bothered about J-31 being offered to Porkistan, we should have discussion about the same briefly. Some reports are suggesting they will deliver this year itself which looks preposterous to me. It is true like as you said Chinese knowledge of aero engines are completely from Russia. Don't know whether they are as good as the original Russian ones. In order to have strategic autonomy they have swallowed the bitter pill. The fact that they strapped 3 engines to test their new fighter clearly shows they are struggling to increase the thrust just like us with Kaveri Engine.

Now with respect to Chinese fighters, what are the recent developments they have made with respect to Engine, AESA radar, Electronic warfare, missiles etc? Do we have any information we can consider authentic without any of their cheap propaganda? Have they been tested? Even a simple statistic like Mean time between overhaul (MTO) about their Engines can give us a good idea about their advancements in Engine technology. I was not able to get any credible information about their weapon systems anywhere.

However, I did read about their air force joint exercise with Thai air force. This report is 10 years old. PLAAF were knocked out by Thai air force Gripen fighters in Beyond visual range combat. They did better at within visual range combat. That does tell that they don't have much situational awareness in BVR combat. They had a exercise last year with Thai air force as well. But I could not find much about their performance.

Thailand's JAS39 Gripen "Shoot Down" 41 China's Shenyang J-11 in Joint Air Exercise - Defence Security Asia

The JAS39 Gripen fighter jets of the Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) have reportedly demonstrated excellent performance when faced with China's Shenyang J-11 aircraft (a variant of the Su-27) during the joint air exercise "Falcon Strike" in 2015.

defencesecurityasia.com

I don't think Pakistan will get the J-31 (Now J-35) platform from Chinese for now. It is an top tier platform for them and still not got their IOC /FOC for PLAAF and PLAN since it is both land and Carrier based platform. Pakistan got their J10s after nearly an decade since the platform matures for PLAAF which is around 2010 period. Pakis will get J-35 in future when China have their J-36 and J-XX nearing completion. China also consider the potential sharing of data to American via pig shaggers. Also operation Sindoor exposed that Pakis don't integrate Chinese maal and American maal.

Pakis lost their HQ-9s since their AD is shit tier. Compared with us, our S400 is protected by series of AD systems like Anti Drone L70, ZSU-23-2, Akash. Chinese will have similar layered AD in Tibet theatre. We also increase the density. I am not going into poor chinese mall trope. Their EV revolution is commendable, their Universities were top notch in terms of valuable research output, they have perfected mass manufacturing. Their Weapons will be high quality same as ours. It is completely relies on our Strategies and the objectives we want to accomplish against Chinese.

For now we can do the following.

1. Upgrade remaining L-70, ZSU-23-2 and induct Sudharshan CIWS.
2. Add DEW Systems like DRDO 30KW systems against incoming drones, Induct Non kinetic drone systems.
3. Induct QRSAM for Army as well as Air force (Support to Akash).
4. Ensure we have inducted Akash NG, Akash 1S.
5. Higher MRSAM.
6. Fast Track project KUSHA. We have 6 S400 Squadrons and Kusha systems Radar was ready, Missile under fabrication. Start the developer/user trial and start inducting the system.
7. VSHORADS for troops.

On top of that. Deploy the BMD Shield full fledge. We need to protect all flanks. For now our eastern sector vulnerable as there is no ballistic Shield and Chinese were closer to population centers of them compared to Tibet theater. Kumming is barely 600 Km from AP. We need to establish BMD Shield somewhere around Kolkata which protect the entire Eastern Flank.

Also BMD Shield in Southern Region which protects the Major Cities like Chennai, Bengaluru, Hyderabad along with Lakshadweep. Also A&N Region should have its own BMD which save us from by taking Ballistic missiles launching from SCS region.

Our Space based ISR Asset needs to increased significantly, just having a dozen Military Satellite will not work out for us. We need 100+ minimum in every spectrum like ELINT/SIGINT, EOS, Hyperspectral Sats etc. Also make NVS as global system similar to US, Russians, EU and Chinese have done. Whether people use our service or not. This gives better guidance for our Systems. It is hardly 35 Sats and we already wasted 7 Sats due to variety of issues. Just cover the entire world. We have friendlies to establish tracking station.

 

[Doreamon]

I have nt heard so far of any top officer in airforce serving or retired asking for stealth fighterjets. It's mostly people outside .. some observers and army people who are retired . Airforce demand for a long time seems like more rafale and early resolution of local production delays . I cnt say if they have changed their mind now seeing pakistan getting j35 .

 

[shade2]

I have nt heard so far of any top officer in airforce serving or retired asking for stealth fighterjets. It's mostly people outside .. some observers and army people who are retired . Airforce demand for a long time seems like more rafale and early resolution of local production delays . I cnt say if they have changed their mind now seeing pakistan getting j35 .

Brass and Baboo and Dhoti all may have changed their mind with Chongs flying 2-3 6th gen jet prototypes in public, i.e the "activeness" in defense procurement since December last year we have been seeing.

Not because of dhoti-shivering F-35 fanbois or dalal articles planted in shady defense news websites of PAF getting J-35

Open the sarkari wallet, boost budget, build to counter China and it's pet bitch will automagically resolve itself, rather than the aage-se-geela-peeche-se-peela "WE MUST EMERGENCY PROCOOR 4-5 SQDRNS OF F35 TO COUNTER PAF J35" by dallas/dhoti-shiverers on this forum.