Indian Air Force: News & Discussions (27 Viewers)

[shade2]

Damn. Then both Dassault and Rosoboronexport can kiss MRFA good bye. If Israelis are middle-manning this, few Indian weapons (folded fin Astra Mk1/Mk2) could be matched with it.

Regardless of how many F-35s are bought, AMCA is a necessity. Otherwise the Koreans wouldn't have tried so hard with the KF-21, and neither the Japanese would be working on the J-X.

One is practice for 6th gen and the other is already 6th gen in development
Both SKorea and Japan has a requirement that they have to fulfill before Uncle Sam decides to sell them the same generation of fighter.

 

[shade2]

i dunno how you can take su 57 without considering

1. russia's industrial capability (or lack thereof)
2. geopolical landscape (getting slapped by USA)

you would basically be getting shitted on by by the USA for planes that may or may not even show up.

Most important two points about why Su-57 isn't a good choice

Why didn't sukhoi just went ahead with su47 berkut rather than this 4.5 gen wanna be 5 gen design

They made Su57 as an export money maker, explicitly with it being a derivative of Su27 family in terms of airframe.

They boast how it can be made in HAL Nashik with minimal retooling from existing Su30 building equipment

Their actual 5th gen fighter was the Mig 1.44 protoype, which died with the Soviet Union.

Anyway we will see, I don't believe Su57 will come because of the two issues nibbler mentioned, don't believe F-35 in Israel config will come because it's too good to be true.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Most important two points about why Su-57 isn't a good choice



They made Su57 as an export money maker, explicitly with it being a derivative of Su27 family in terms of airframe.

They boast how it can be made in HAL Nashik with minimal retooling from existing Su30 building equipment

Their actual 5th gen fighter was the Mig 1.44 protoype, which died with the Soviet Union.

Anyway we will see, I don't believe Su57 will come because of the two issues nibbler mentioned, don't believe F-35 in Israel config will come because it's too good to be true.

Aayega toh Rafale hi.

Rest all this is to panic frogeaters.

 

[shade2]

Aayega toh Rafale hi.

Rest all this is to panic frogeaters.

Hope they do get panicked, we need rights to integrate our own missiles and bombs and have our own data links installed if we're giving them a large order( say more than 72 planes )

That's the bare minimum for a 4.5gen plane.

Also the babooze must impress upon them, as a gesture of good faith they must start Astra integration on the in service 36 planes.

 

[Doreamon]

There are consequences for choosing su57 . I don't believe there is one power group or view point in USA as far as india is concerned . There is a big anti india lobby /group in USA which has been in collusion with ISI for executing various anti india clandestine projects over decades which includes assasination of 100s of scientists . It ll gain more power and take center stage in deciding policies of USA with regards to india which might go to economic domain .

We ll also need to think about consequences on engine deals with usa which is crucial for our local fighter jet programs . Think from every angle and calculate plus minus .

If we want to integrate indian avionics in su57 it ll take minimum 5/7 years . Why not focus on AMCA program . And buy more rafael . Rafael with meteor , spectra highly capable for atleast next 5/7 years .

 

[username unkown]

Anyway we will see, I don't believe Su57 will come because of the two issues nibbler mentioned, don't believe F-35 in Israel config will come because it's too good to be true.

Yeah american won't give us israel level of control for integrating meteor for thier european partner they have to send it to america

 

[silentassassin265]

There are consequences for choosing su57 . I don't believe there is one power group or view point in USA as far as india is concerned . There is a big anti india lobby /group in USA which has been in collusion with ISI for executing various anti india clandestine projects over decades which includes assasination of 100s of scientists . It ll gain more power and take center stage in deciding policies of USA with regards to india which might go to economic domain .

We ll also need to think about consequences on engine deals with usa which is crucial for our local fighter jet programs . Think from every angle and calculate plus minus .

If we want to integrate indian avionics in su57 it ll take minimum 5/7 years . Why not focus on AMCA program . And buy more rafael . Rafael with meteor , spectra highly capable for atleast next 5/7 years .

Rafale just cost too much and a little indigenous weapons will be integrated.
If we get same amount of freedom with su57 that we got with mki, that will be better than f35 let alone rafale.

 

[liberalredditor]

Aayega toh Rafale hi.

Rest all this is to panic frogeaters.

wo bhi tough hai, kahin firse raga ne anil ambani ka raag alap diya to leaderji ko annadata se maafi mangni pad jayegi.

i thinkk india should go with this
mockup75 fighter

 

[username unkown]

Their actual 5th gen fighter was the Mig 1.44 protoype, which died with the Soviet Union.

After fall of ussr they didn't had funds but we saved sukhoi by big order mig didn't get much help so they don't have much they were said to be working on mig1.44 again with another single engine stealth aircraft but as far there just model for air show

 

[officewarrior]

We are getting very near to doomsday if these indian airforce and govt clowns of drdo mod and hal did not sort out things early

Havent seen a bigger clown project then tejas in my whole life its been 40 yrs and a proper fighter of tejasmk1a configuration is yet to be inducted by air force.
I Have always thought of indian airforce as the weakest link of indian armed forces but the moment i got the news of no meteor or long range bvr integrated even after 5 yrs of integration after paying 10billion dollars for rafales i completely lost the faith in indian airforce.

Mark my words pakistan will definetly loose all the upcoming wars with india but pakistan air force will eat india air force ALIVE next time with no face saving to be left.

 

[liberalredditor]

Rafale just cost too much and a little indigenous weapons will be integrated.
If we get same amount of freedom with su57 that we got with mki, that will be better than f35 let alone rafale.

what makes you think su57 wont be expensive? we have first hand experience of being sucked by them from vikramaditya/gorshkorv, su30 "mki" 2x, etc....

all imports are expensive, look at mq9b, is it some 6th gen drone that it cost so much for just 20-25 drones? same f35 wouldnt be cheap, dont believe internet numbers that due to scale its cheap, the logistics and spares would suck the blood out of defex.

its better to get 2-3 sq of rafale, negotiate hard, france has already lost contracts due to burger, so use burger to lower the price from french, and then spank the butt of hal and tell them to start production of tejas mk2 by 2030 anyhow, even if it doesnt have weapons, just deliver it anyhow. same for amca mk1, get those 3-4 or 5 squadrons anyhow

 

[redpanda]

Uwhat makes you think su57 wont be expensive? we have first hand experience of being sucked by them from vikramaditya/gorshkorv, su30 "mki" 2x, etc....

all imports are expensive, look at mq9b, is it some 6th gen drone that it cost so much for just 20-25 drones? same f35 wouldnt be cheap, dont believe internet numbers that due to scale its cheap, the logistics and spares would suck the blood out of defex.

its better to get 2-3 sq of rafale, negotiate hard, france has already lost contracts due to burger, so use burger to lower the price from french, and then spank the butt of hal and tell them to start production of tejas mk2 by 2030 anyhow, even if it doesnt have weapons, just deliver it anyhow. same for amca mk1, get those 3-4 or 5 squadrons anyhow

USAF itself is struggling to maintain their F-35 fleet. They too have a lot of issues with maintainance & supply chain troubles. It will be a bigger defex nightmare than Su-30 MKI for IAF & MoD. I expect even if we get F-35, those will have horrible availability rate. Thanks to all those technical issues, lack of spare parts,etc. Because we would have to rely on the Koreans for it.

 

[liberalredditor]

USAF itself is struggling to maintain their F-35 fleet. They too have a lot of issues with maintainance & supply chain troubles. It will be a bigger defex nightmare than Su-30 MKI for IAF & MoD.

i had read somewhere in dfi in 2022 that at a time su30 mki had a max availability of 50% which is pretty bad, but a standard for soviet/russian aircrafts. worst condition for mi17 and illusion transporters.

masterstroke from leaderji would be what if goes and buys kf21

 

[officewarrior]

what makes you think su57 wont be expensive? we have first hand experience of being sucked by them from vikramaditya/gorshkorv, su30 "mki" 2x, etc....

all imports are expensive, look at mq9b, is it some 6th gen drone that it cost so much for just 20-25 drones? same f35 wouldnt be cheap, dont believe internet numbers that due to scale its cheap, the logistics and spares would suck the blood out of defex.

its better to get 2-3 sq of rafale, negotiate hard, france has already lost contracts due to burger, so use burger to lower the price from french, and then spank the butt of hal and tell them to start production of tejas mk2 by 2030 anyhow, even if it doesnt have weapons, just deliver it anyhow. same for amca mk1, get those 3-4 or 5 squadrons anyhow

No rafale or su57 can save us in next war with both china and pakistan coming together.
Only mk1a with kaveri engines or an american alliance with f35 can save our future.

With all the mismanagement of tejas project it is given we have to kiss uncle sam ass or face the hard consequences which i dont want to speak here.
Air force win wars and our situation of air force is well known.

And why rafale and su 57 cant save us because rafale was shot down and now pakistan and china both have a working knowledge of how rafales can be tackled.
Su 57 is an open book for china to tackle as china has all the knowledge of its dearest friend russia and russia needs china more then india.

 

[redpanda]

i had read somewhere in dfi in 2022 that at a time su30 mki had a max availability of 50% which is pretty bad, but a standard for soviet/russian aircrafts. worst condition for mi17 and illusion transporters.

masterstroke from leaderji would be what if goes and buys kf21

KF-21 is a 4.5 +++ gen aircraft in its current form though. It will take some time for them to make a proper 5th gen version of it.

 

[redpanda]

No rafale or su57 can save us in next war with both china and pakistan coming together.
Only mk1a with kaveri engines or an american alliance with f35 can save our future.

With all the mismanagement of tejas project it is given we have to kiss uncle sam ass or face the hard consequences which i dont want to speak here.
Air force win wars and our situation of air force is well known.

And why rafale and su 57 cant save us because rafale was shot down and now pakistan and china both have a working knowledge of how rafales can be tackled.
Su 57 is an open book for china to tackle as china has all the knowledge of its dearest friend russia and russia needs china more then india.

China won't attack us anytime soon. Because they too know that would be jumping into Unkil Sam's trap. The political leadership there is apparently wishes to focus on Taiwan first. So they will only push Pakistan as their henchmen to test their weapons against us and test our own capabilities. An Indo-China war is not happening until 2040-2045.

 

[liberalredditor]

KF-21 is a 4.5 +++ gen aircraft in its current form though

atleast their 4.5 ++ gen aircraft exists and has flown, our is in cad form, thanks to rfi, then aon then ioc then foc then dac then negotiation then ccs. 4 trillion dollar economy my foot, chindi leader cannot allocate bulk of funds for aerospace industry which is newborn and critical on ventilator at the same time

 

[redpanda]

atleast their 4.5 ++ gen aircraft exists and has flown, our is in cad form, thanks to rfi, then aon then ioc then foc then dac then negotiation then ccs. 4 trillion dollar economy my foot, chindi leader cannot allocate bulk of funds for aerospace industry which is newborn and critical on ventilator at the same time

Yeah but the question was about buying it you know. Anyways making a 5th gen aircraft takes time. That KF-21 project is 25+ years old btw. They started working on it in late 90s. Originally it was meant to be a Multirole Medium Combat Aircraft. So, it isn't like they didn't had a period of time when KF-21 was just a CAD and a design on paper. That too with US assistance and everything that they have. Have patience, building a 5th gen aircraft takes time. There have been problem from AMCA's development. Some of which are thanks to establishment's blunder. But you also need to understand a large part of it is thanks to the nature of the development process itself. We simply didn't had any technology to develop a 5th gen aircraft, RAM paint, RAS, etc. It took time for us to develop those. People here get too frustrated with AMCA's development process but it isn't Maggie noodle, it will take its sweet time. R&D is a painful & time taking process.

Now there could be an argument that the enemy won't wait for you to develop your platform with your sweet time. There is merit to this argument. However, for that we have stopgaps. Whether we like it or not, the people at top will decide what those stopgaps could be based on their own assessment. Project like AMCA will bear their fruit but just like planting a tree, it isn't instantaneous. Till then you have to manage your hunger for Mangoes with whatever you get from market.

 

[silentassassin265]

No rafale or su57 can save us in next war with both china and pakistan coming together.
Only mk1a with kaveri engines or an american alliance with f35 can save our future.

With all the mismanagement of tejas project it is given we have to kiss uncle sam ass or face the hard consequences which i dont want to speak here.
Air force win wars and our situation of air force is well known.

And why rafale and su 57 cant save us because rafale was shot down and now pakistan and china both have a working knowledge of how rafales can be tackled.
Su 57 is an open book for china to tackle as china has all the knowledge of its dearest friend russia and russia needs china more then india.

If porks and shitnese are coming togather, why are be even bothering with conventional weapons?

We will have no choice but to use nukes, preemptive nuke strike on porks with force shitnese to back down

 

[liberalredditor]

Yeah but the question was about buying it you know. Anyways making a 5th gen aircraft takes time. That KF-21 project is 25+ years old btw. They started working on it in late 90s. Originally it was meant to be a Multirole Medium Combat Aircraft. So, it isn't like they didn't had a period of time when KF-21 was just a CAD and a design on paper. That too with US assistance and everything that they have. Have patience, building a 5th gen aircraft takes time. There have been problem from AMCA's development. Some of which are thanks to establishment's blunder. But you also need to understand a large part of it is thanks to the nature of the development process itself. We simply didn't had any technology to develop a 5th gen aircraft, RAM paint, RAS, etc. It took time for us to develop those. People here get too frustrated with AMCA's development process but it isn't Maggie noodle, it will take its sweet time. R&D is a painful & time taking process.

Now there could be an argument that the enemy won't wait for you to develop your platform with your sweet time. There is merit to this argument. However, for that we have stopgaps. Whether we like it or not, the people at top will decide what those stopgaps could be based on their own assessment. Project like AMCA will bear their fruit but just like planting a tree, it isn't instantaneous. Till then you have to manage your hunger for Mangoes with whatever you get from market.

are bhrata i was not all serious when i said that
look at the language which i used

"masterstroke from leaderji would be what if goes and buys kf21 " calm down bhoijaan, i am still a dalal for ada and their projects