Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

Did I ever mention the reason because of which we got out of it?
Against what are you presenting these "different" reasons then?

How can we so confidently assure ourselves that Chinese 5 gen fighters would be less stealthy? Do we have any paper to gauge the RCS of J-35?

I simply said induct ORCA instead of going for a MRFA tender.
By mentioning Jags, Bahadur and 2000s you're simply reinforcing my point of getting a good 4th gen fighter (ORCA in this case) for all non-stealthy role and one 5th gen fighter (AMCA) for stealth role. Instead have three different 4th gen fighter, one partial 5th gen fighter (Su-57) and AMCA.

Having Su-57 at this point would be like wearing a 1974 helmet, it'll give the wearer a false sense of safety...or in this case, true 5th gen features.

Did I?

Why exactly would be bring in Su-35? It's just even more absurd than Su-57.
What particularly in Su-35 is so advanced that can't be done by our one Su-30MkI by using upgrades?

But do I? Have I mentioned it?

There must have been some reason why I mentioned ORCA. Any my exact words were "limited capabilities (like Tejas Mk-1A)" so yeah, you're again countering me by just reinforcing my statement.

Not exactly this but ya, somthing in line.

A more refined version would have been...so you're saying that DRDO/HAL's 5th gen project would have lesser bugs that would need ironing out compared to F-22 or F-35 because these are old, government run, tightly scrutinized, extremely extremely risk aversive agencies as opposed to US MIC which works on unorthodox and groundbreaking technologies like B2

And to which my reply would have been...YEAH!

so basically ur logic is mostly in my understanding:-
1:- su 57 isnt good enough - well again, for that i already told u. chinese bought su 35, although they hv j20 etc. they r not fool to buy inferior products. nd common sense said su 35 next genration (su 57) will be more capable than it. u can compaire both specs nd technology.
2:- su 35 hv supercruise ability, more stealthy due to use of more composite material nd RAM coating. so yes u cant add these 2 quality in su 30, even if u upgrade them. u cant add composite material in su 30 nd neither u make it supercruise, even if u use higher thirst engine. beside this su 35 hv better infrared sensor, better engine, better weapons, better avionics nd jamming etc than our current su 30.
3:- oh my god u r waiting for ORCA. dude our TEDBF program latest production date is 2032 nd it will definitely take more time. if u make its air version, that will take 2-3 year more in upgrade nd testing etc. so easily ORCA time period will go for 2035+ . add more time in deal signing nd its first aircraft delivery . we cant wait till date for a 4.5 genration fighter. ORCA only make sense if we want to replace our SU 30 mki fleet, which will started to retire from 2040-42 (although i think airforce will use it for 50 years, not 40 years). why?? coz air force already told that mig 21 nd jaguar will be replaced by tejas mark 1a....meanwhile tejas mark 2 will replace all mirage 2000 nd mig 29 fleet. so u r suggesting to replace them with ORCA. which will induction ready after 2035 nd more costly than single engine tejas mark 2. according to alpha defense, people who r making tejas mark 2. they want tejas mark 2 as close as rafale capabilities. not talking about specs though, like maximum weapon carriage, range etc.
4:- so ORCA only make sense, if u want to replace su 30 mki. which i dont think a good move after 2040-42. i think su 30 should be replace by single engine (su 75 type) 5 genration fighter, not a 4.5 genration fighter. coz su 30 is back bone of IAF now. u dont want to make our back bone with a 4.5 genration fighter (ORCA) in 2040+.

 

[daya]

Quantity is itself a quality.. Alas right from the development of Marut, short-sightedness overwhelmed or it can be said certain vested interests prevailed. Depleting squadron strength is a great worry on this platform, but on the other hand, leadership seems not worried at all.. Whatever be the reasons...

 

[mist_consecutive]

Crippling IAF gaps force government to set up panel for new road map | India News - Times of India

India News: India's Air Force is facing a significant shortage of fighter jets and support aircraft. A high-level committee has been formed to address these gaps,

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

[Not in this article but my sauce] Is it true GoI is setting up story to buy F-35 ?

 

[Fatalis]

Crippling IAF gaps force government to set up panel for new road map | India News - Times of India

India News: India's Air Force is facing a significant shortage of fighter jets and support aircraft. A high-level committee has been formed to address these gaps,

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

[Not in this article but my sauce] Is it true GoI is setting up story to buy F-35 ?

Uncle SAM won't even consider the request. They will say first buy F-16 and get used to it. And may be in the near future we might sell you F-35.

What extra ordinary will this committee find, I don't know man. They have to buy a foreign fighter that is the only option left for them. Those who are saying concentrate on ORCA are delulu as TEDBF itself is poised as 2036+ project.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Crippling IAF gaps force government to set up panel for new road map | India News - Times of India

India News: India's Air Force is facing a significant shortage of fighter jets and support aircraft. A high-level committee has been formed to address these gaps,

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

[Not in this article but my sauce] Is it true GoI is setting up story to buy F-35 ?

F-35 is for "tamed" countries only. They are telling us to buy F-16 first and then "maybe" in future allow us F-35.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

There is no point in attempting any Import Circus now. You can't win Skirmishes much alone Battles and Wars with imported toys.

Even with delivery rate of 24 per year, it would take 3 to 4 years to start delivery and finish the orders by 5 years totalling 8 to 9 years.

GoI wouldn't be interested in anything more than 100 airframes and when the numbers are such does it matter to have it or not against 1000 plus J-20?

If the year was 2015 and GoI believes all deliveries would finish by 2025 against a order of 150 planes, then at that moment it is atleast sensible thing to do. But now, it's 2025 and the window is over. Whether we sign up for 200 rafales Or 200 F-35, banking on them to win wars against 1000-1500 J-20 is a delusion.

 

[mist_consecutive]

There is no point in attempting any Import Circus now. You can't win Skirmishes much alone Battles and Wars with imported toys.

Not advocating for imports, but I am sorry this is the most retarted opinion.

We won 1971 war with imported weapons.
We cleared Kargil heights ONLY due to imported weapons.
Israel's entire airforce is imported and they win wars/skirmishes just fine.

Capabilities matter. Your manufacturing won't mean shit if your factories get taken out within the first month by enemies imported stealth fighters and imported cruise missiles.

 

[Nutcracker]

3:- oh my god u r waiting for ORCA. dude our TEDBF program latest production date is 2032 nd it will definitely take more time. if u make its air version,

Wrong, If IAF joins project in next 2 years, ORCA and TEDBF will come out at same time.
I might even say ORCA will come out before TEDBF because it's less complicated project.

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

Nothing phenomenal is going to happen.

The shamelessness of this nation's political/bureaucratic/military leadership is beyond repair.

Even a 1962+ defeat may not change the ingrained "dhandhabaazi" tendencies among the majority hindu community and it's leaders.

F-35's aren't coming... those are not just any other aircraft... they are more dynamic than anything else that exists under so called 5th generation label.

Any incoming war in this decade with a determined enemy at the doorstep... has already been lost.

Each and every procurement that took place in last 10 yrs was on the 'minimal' side... minimum enough to make a news headline to keep the chu**** public deluded that 56 inch is indeed strengthening the forces.

Su-57's current production rate is <9 per annum.

The so called committee will come out with a suggestion of max 3-4 additional MRFA/Rafale squadrons off the shelf on emergency basis... that's it & that's all.

 

[Anants]

Not advocating for imports, but I am sorry this is the most retarted opinion.

We won 1971 war with imported weapons.
We cleared Kargil heights ONLY due to imported weapons.
Israel's entire airforce is imported and they win wars/skirmishes just fine.

Capabilities matter. Your manufacturing won't mean shit if your factories get taken out within the first month by enemies imported stealth fighters and imported cruise missiles.

Manufacturing (whether desi or videsi) means zilch if your Line production can be brought to grinding halt due to unavailability of single import component without firing single bullet.

 

[Nutcracker]

Capabilities matter. Your manufacturing won't mean shit if your factories get taken out within the first month by enemies imported stealth fighters and imported cruise missiles.

Assembly lines can be rebuilt in few weeks. These complex machines have 100s of sub-component vendors, it's not so easy to completely cripple the manufacturing of domestic weapons.

Only if GOI babus were not sold out scums, RM Khajnath was not a LOW IQ tool, and IAF jurnails weren't so short sighted stuck up with muh high thrust foreign maal.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Nothing phenomenal is going to happen.

The shamelessness of this nation's political/bureaucratic/military leadership is beyond repair.

Even a 1962+ defeat may not change the ingrained "dhandhabaazi" tendencies among the majority hindu community and it's leaders.

F-35's aren't coming... those are not just any other aircraft... they are more dynamic than anything else that exists under so called 5th generation label.

Any incoming war in this decade with a determined enemy at the doorstep... has already been lost.

Each and every procurement that took place in last 10 yrs was on the 'minimal' side... minimum enough to make a news headline to keep the chu**** public deluded that 56 inch is indeed strengthening the forces.

Su-57's current production rate is <9 per annum.

The so called committee will come out with a suggestion of max 3-4 additional MRFA/Rafale squadrons off the shelf on emergency basis... that's it & that's all.

Why would they worry? They happily settled/settle their spawns in other countries if situation becomes dire. They have no skin in the game, it's not about MoD or Forces or Babus or BJP, look at where their "spawns" are settled and you would understand.

As for dehatis who don't vote on National Security, they not only not care but rather they would actively advocate to surrender territory to enemy as long as they and their family needs are met. Such dehatis don't deserve the concept of "Nation" and "Civilization".

It would be interesting to see whom dehatis gonna vote for after BJP loses wars in future. The last time I saw they still voted for Congress Party even after 26/11.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Manufacturing (whether desi or videsi) means zilch if your Line production can be brought to grinding halt due to unavailability of single import component without firing single bullet.

Every fighter jet in the world is built using components sourced from different countries.

Assembly lines can be rebuilt in few weeks.

I am not sure that is true. Building assembly lines for non-complex machinery like guns & tanks, maybe. Not for fighter jets, ships or other technologically complex items.

 

[Anants]

Every major fighter jet in the world is built using components  securely sourced from different but supply assured countries as part of secured and assured supply chain..

Bolded part are my additions to your statement. This is to highlight it does not apply to our country's situation.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

Wrong, If IAF joins project in next 2 years, ORCA and TEDBF will come out at same time.
I might even say ORCA will come out before TEDBF because it's less complicated project.

can u give me a example of any aircraft, which simultaneously came out with navy nd air force version. mostly it take 2-3 years in modification, testing etc between two models.

 

[Blademaster]

can u give me a example of any aircraft, which simultaneously came out with navy nd air force version. mostly it take 2-3 years in modification, testing etc between two models.

Its easier to convert a naval version into an air force version than vice versa as the naval version has more stringent requirements.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

Why would they worry? They happily settled/settle their spawns in other countries if situation becomes dire. They have no skin in the game, it's not about MoD or Forces or Babus or BJP, look at where their "spawns" are settled and you would understand.

As for dehatis who don't vote on National Security, they not only not care but rather they would actively advocate to surrender territory to enemy as long as they and their family needs are met. Such dehatis don't deserve the concept of "Nation" and "Civilization".

It would be interesting to see whom dehatis gonna vote for after BJP loses wars in future. The last time I saw they still voted for Congress Party even after 26/11.

dude most army personal comes from dehat/villages....i can bet that nationalism is more present in villagers than city people. coz villagers r more ready to sacrifice in their life. right now india hv near 600000 villages nd near 67% population lives in rural areas. they dont follow geopolitics nd pollitics. most of them giving a party vote, coz their parents was giving that vote to that party. just like they following life style nd tradition/culture etc of their ancestors, without going on logic etc. so u can say they r innocent voters, who dont understand which party is doing what kind of pollitics. i think u never live in villages, so u dont understand those people mentality nd innocence etc.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

Its easier to convert a naval version into an air force version than vice versa as the naval version has more stringent requirements.

yeah i know...but can u give a example of any aircraft, which came with both version simultaneously. coz i dont know any aircraft nd in every discussion in different defense expert, when they talk about TEDBF nd ORCA. they said ORCA will take 2-3 more years. i m talking about defense decode, alpha defense, defense matrix etc indian defense youtubers. which hv more knowledge than me in defence.

 

[Blademaster]

yeah i know...but can u give a example of any aircraft, which came with both version simultaneously. coz i dont know any aircraft nd in every discussion in different defense expert, when they talk about TEDBF nd ORCA. they said ORCA will take 2-3 more years. i m talking about defense decode, alpha defense, defense matrix etc indian defense youtubers. which hv more knowledge than me in defence.

F-35? F/A-111 Aadvark. F-18.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

F-35? F/A-111 Aadvark. F-18.

F35 introduction timeline of its different version:-
1:- F35 B (for US marine) - 2015.
2:- F35 A (for air force) - 2016.
3:- F 35 C (for navy) - 2019.

F/A- 111 is only used airforce version. navy dont use it.

F18 production timeline:-
F18 A/B/C/D (for US navy nd marine) - 1978.
F18 (export to australian air force) - 1984. it hv no ground attack ability also.
F18 super hornet (for US navy nd marine) - 1995
F18 growler for US navy - 2007.

USA airforce dont use any F18 aircrafts. so air force version only build for export (australia, canada etc).