Indian Infrastructure & Discussion

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1879748586336059900

 

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1879415721559552230

 

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1879385521614651869


View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1879386276098633782

 

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1879748586336059900

 

[FalconSlayers]

Since I was talking about urban infra and planning, here's some random city in literal Congo.


View: https://youtu.be/stCbwGn5Ehg?si=gE8oxQRCzL6rxOS1


These are some more




Although, yes most of their capital/country looks like this...

View: https://youtu.be/2F0y33jGUUk?si=k8QQS5XvqurGoLVq


But, it's GDP per capita (as what their government claims) is around $700. Less than Bihar. But in reality, it's per capita electricity consumption is more than a dozen times less than India per capita, and a quarter of Bihar. Indicating that it is an extremely poor country with agriculture as main source of economic activity. Even in agriculture their output of various agro commodities is far lower than India per capita.

List of countries by cereal production - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of countries by fruit production - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of countries by vegetable production - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of countries by milk production - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

By the way these are much older numbers, our output volume has increased by a lot since these were published.

Now, this isn't supposed to shame them or mock them, but rather appreciate how they built better urban infra than much of India given their conditions. Although much of Congo's cities look pretty rural, that is expected due to very low population density and economic prosperity.

This is literally how entirety of Bihar looks like.

View: https://youtu.be/7UdvorsEYd4?si=hJme6lun8JeS3hsG




May I ask where would you live, Bihar or Congo based on the visible difference?

Large portion of Indian cities look similar, just slightly better than above.


Meanwhile capital of Philippines, country that is slightly poorer than India.

View: https://youtu.be/rnLU-BgyYNk?si=-vHEcJ31nFyZvfOG




Seriously though, what exactly is wrong with us? This is embarrassing.

Before and After, Pune suburbs. Look at the difference. The "before" looks like typical Indian streets, but with pavements, they look how cities are actually supposed to look. Only blackpill it, this will not be done nationwide or maybe even citywide except few areas as showpiece.






From Avishar

 

[sameer]

Before and After, Pune suburbs. Look at the difference. The "before" looks like typical Indian streets, but with pavements, they look how cities are actually supposed to look. Only blackpill it, this will not be done nationwide or maybe even citywide except few areas as showpiece.

View attachment 22052View attachment 22053



View attachment 22054View attachment 22055
From Avishar

Interesting how even the most basic improvements can make our cities not look like literal fourth world. Just paving the roads until the edge along with footpaths eliminates that dusty war torn country look.

 

[Migflug]

Before and After, Pune suburbs. Look at the difference. The "before" looks like typical Indian streets, but with pavements, they look how cities are actually supposed to look. Only blackpill it, this will not be done nationwide or maybe even citywide except few areas as showpiece.

View attachment 22052View attachment 22053



View attachment 22054View attachment 22055
From Avishar

We don't have urban planning at all. Seeing through the naked eye in Bangalore, how the ORR region has developed over the last 3 decades. Roads ending in front of a society that could have been used to connect major roads, lack of ring roads, and footpaths to name a few. Each of these things only needed planning to develop, not even money!

 

[bakofbakchod]

Before and After, Pune suburbs. Look at the difference. The "before" looks like typical Indian streets, but with pavements, they look how cities are actually supposed to look. Only blackpill it, this will not be done nationwide or maybe even citywide except few areas as showpiece.

View attachment 22052View attachment 22053



View attachment 22054View attachment 22055
From Avishar

Sadly the natural entropy in indians (genetically) seems to be filthy. Indians can't withstand cleanliness at all, so expect the above to return to its natural state in 2 years. No other 3rd world country is this way. When their shitty streets get paved/redeveloped, they tend to stay in the new state with some grime etc, but nothing like this


View: https://x.com/bakchodgang1/status/1880223030640800034

 

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1880472686381453683


View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1880476651336921503

 

[FalconSlayers]

View: https://x.com/IndianTechGuide/status/1880465374275129497

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Sadly the natural entropy in indians (genetically) seems to be filthy. Indians can't withstand cleanliness at all, so expect the above to return to its natural state in 2 years. No other 3rd world country is this way. When their shitty streets get paved/redeveloped, they tend to stay in the new state with some grime etc, but nothing like this


View: https://x.com/bakchodgang1/status/1880223030640800034

Indians as a whole forgot that everything needs maintenance. Without maintenance everything becomes unusable after some time.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

View: https://x.com/IndianTechGuide/status/1880465374275129497

Don't want to move into Metro bandwagon as we already burned money in few metros like Jaipur, Kanpur, Agra, Gorakhphur, Lucknow etc.

Public transit needs to be properly implemented. Not all cities need Metro, even proper bus system will help people to move seamlessly. Even today Russia and former Soviet states have bus system which help people to great extent.

Also should check the possibility of Monorail, Trams, Ligh Rail, BRTS in various Tier 2 cities and upgrade them in future.

 

[haldilal]

 

[londonparistokyo]

Don't want to move into Metro bandwagon as we already burned money in few metros like Jaipur, Kanpur, Agra, Gorakhphur, Lucknow etc.

Public transit needs to be properly implemented. Not all cities need Metro, even proper bus system will help people to move seamlessly. Even today Russia and former Soviet states have bus system which help people to great extent.

Also should check the possibility of Monorail, Trams, Ligh Rail, BRTS in various Tier 2 cities and upgrade them in future.

Lucknow metro is nice but totally useless

 

[Migflug]

Don't want to move into Metro bandwagon as we already burned money in few metros like Jaipur, Kanpur, Agra, Gorakhphur, Lucknow etc.

Public transit needs to be properly implemented. Not all cities need Metro, even proper bus system will help people to move seamlessly. Even today Russia and former Soviet states have bus system which help people to great extent.

Also should check the possibility of Monorail, Trams, Ligh Rail, BRTS in various Tier 2 cities and upgrade them in future.

We should not invest in Monorail, Trams, light rail, or BRTS systems. Over a long period, this system doesn't give as good ROI as Metro, moreover, we are producing metros at scale, which will further decrease the cost.These metros will eventually help public transportation in future when the population in these gets large enough.

In the meantime, we should heavily invest in Electric buses, which are much cheaper and can cater to the demands of today. Ideally, we should have 500 buses for every million people, but we don't even have a quarter of it in most cities.
Even NITI Aayog says 60 buses per 1 lakh population are needed to maintain minimum service standards.



The way forward is do what you are doing with metro in tier 2 cities, they will cater to the future but parallelly mass invest in E Buses for today's demand

 

[sameer]

Don't know if anyone here lived in the 80's, but did our big cities look better back then? (in terms of cleanliness and general aesthetics).

Came across this picture. Road with lane markings and zebra crossing, No massive ugly hoardings, has greenery and also appears to be less dusty/sandy overall. The red double decker buses fit in well too.

Would be good if someone has a picture of this area today(as a comparison).




View: https://x.com/mumbaiheritage/status/1879783161586229349

 

[Anants]

Don't know if anyone here lived in the 80's, but did our big cities look better back then? (in terms of cleanliness and general aesthetics).

Came across this picture. Road with lane markings and zebra crossing, No massive ugly hoardings, has greenery and also appears to be less dusty/sandy overall. The red double decker buses fit in well too.

Would be good if someone has a picture of this area today(as a comparison).

View attachment 22350


View: https://x.com/mumbaiheritage/status/1879783161586229349

Our hinterlands looked wonderful, our roads wartorn and waterlogged. Cleanliness was relatively (to cities) confined to hinterlands. Chandigarh was much more clean though.

 

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1880850174316007783

 

[ezsasa]

Don't know if anyone here lived in the 80's, but did our big cities look better back then? (in terms of cleanliness and general aesthetics).

Came across this picture. Road with lane markings and zebra crossing, No massive ugly hoardings, has greenery and also appears to be less dusty/sandy overall. The red double decker buses fit in well too.

Would be good if someone has a picture of this area today(as a comparison).

View attachment 22350


View: https://x.com/mumbaiheritage/status/1879783161586229349

this is south mumbai, building on the top left is bombay high court.
south mumbai has many heritage buildings and seat of power in mumbai and maharashtra, so it will look good.

capital cities in general looked relatively better before liberalisation in 91, same with bangalore, chennai and hyderabad. after 91, jurisdictions of many municipal corporations were expanded to include surrounding areas, by adding "greater" infront of municipal corporation names, which lead to dilution of per capita expenditure of these municipal corporations, because they were supposed to take care of additional jurisdictions without proportional increase in their revenues.

and after 91, pace of mobilisation from rural to urban had increased by a lot, which had put strain of expenditure. a problem, many municipal corporations are yet to solve.

for years, i have been making this argument on the previous forum as well. that city infra maintenance is a municipal corporation revenue issue. folks are wasting their time outraging about it, viewing it from an entitlement angle. other than mumbai and maybe delhi, revenues that our cities get are quite low for the population scale they service.

how much property tax do people even pay per year to municipal corporation?
in mumbai, google says it is market value of residential property x .02%. which probably comes to 100₹ per sq foot per year.

for comparision

Property tax in newyork(from google)

When taking those exemptions into account, effective property tax rates in New York City are around 0.88%. To break it down further, in Brooklyn (Kings County), the rate is just 0.68%, less than half the state average. In Manhattan (New York County), the rate is 0.98%. In Queens (Queens County, the rate is 0.87%.