Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Bleh]

Few questions....

Came across this photo depicting the Huge Shivalik Class beside the 2000t smaller Rajput class. Is there any such photo comparison of Shivaliks with the Talwars?

@Binayak95 why was only 3 Shivaliks ever made?.. usually we go for 6-8.

 

[125mm_Smoothbore]

Few questions....

View attachment 4872Came across this photo depicting the Huge Shivalik Class beside the 2000t smaller Rajput class. Is there any such photo comparison of Shivaliks with the Talwars?

@Binayak95 why was only 3 Shivaliks ever made?.. usually we go for 6-8.

only photo i got after searching for some time


for the 3 number part i mostly guess that indian navy needed ddgs that time thus kolkata and vizag class remained priority till then ,when the time came for the nilgiri they preferred the newer equipment and iteration on the basis of the kolkata and vizag class thus rather than giving repeat order of shivalik they made a newer class and newer project

 

[Binayak95]

Few questions....

View attachment 4872Came across this photo depicting the Huge Shivalik Class beside the 2000t smaller Rajput class. Is there any such photo comparison of Shivaliks with the Talwars?

@Binayak95 why was only 3 Shivaliks ever made?.. usually we go for 6-8.

When do we go for 6-7 in a go?
History mai we have always been fixated on batches of 3.
As I understand it, the Shivaliks came in place of a very early follow on P15. Non stealthy P15A essentially.

The lessons learned from that program directly led to the Kolkatas and Vizags. All that advancement in stuff like CMS, IPMS, hull shaping, integrated battlespace awareness, etc has now finally allowed us to order 7 ships in one go.

 

[Blood+]

When do we go for 6-7 in a go?
History mai we have always been fixated on batches of 3.
As I understand it, the Shivaliks came in place of a very early follow on P15. Non stealthy P15A essentially.

The lessons learned from that program directly led to the Kolkatas and Vizags. All that advancement in stuff like CMS, IPMS, hull shaping, integrated battlespace awareness, etc has now finally allowed us to order 7 ships in one go.

Any idea why the Navy is settling on such an inefficient VLS design for the VL-SRSAM with so much dead space?? Considering the small size of the missiles, don't you think the system is taking up too much deck space??

 

[Binayak95]

Any idea why the Navy is settling on such an inefficient VLS design for the VL-SRSAM with so much dead space?? Considering the small size of the missiles, don't you think the system is taking up too much deck space??

Wait for BMD missiles to drop in then see how the VLS is located.

 

[Blood+]

Wait for BMD missiles to drop in then see how the VLS is located.

Thanks, just one final quarry and then I'll be on my way - why do we need ship based BMD systems when we do not face any nuclear threat from across the pond??

 

[Fatalis]

Thanks, just one final quarry and then I'll be on my way - why do we need ship based BMD systems when we do not face any nuclear threat from across the pond??

There is a looming threat of AShBM.

 

[Fatalis]

No.


I am not talking about P17A or the new Talwar, I clearly remember typing *P17*, not A.
MF-STAR for P17A is fine by me, no problem. The 2 new Talwar will not feature MF-STAR.

The problem is with trying to bypass the -ve import list through license production. BEL expects the order for MF-STAR + MRSAM for *P17* and Talwar (old) in *FY26*, and an order of the same for NGC soon thereafter. This should not be the case when we already have the capability to develop and produce good S-band radars (Arudhra) on our own. It is not hard to fit Arudhra on a ship, it can track the targets in 4 ways compared to the 3 of MF-STAR, providing a better firing solution.

2258 Alpha is a tiny radar, single-panel rotating array, not fit for a ship the size of P17 & NGC. It isn't even about the capability, it is about paying royalties for things we can already produce on our own.

My source - https://ccreservations.com/recordings/data/ELA0520240729154702.mp3?s=09 (credit to @ang3lkenny for the link)
What I am talking about is mentioned after the 14 minute mark.

Here, they are also talking about MFR-X, a X band radar for NGMV. Is this the radar from VL-SRSAM or something new?

 

[Blood+]

There is a looming threat of AShBM.

Yes but aren't the Barak 8s already optimized against tactical ballistic missiles in that range class??

 

[Bleh]

@125mm_Smoothbore thanks a lot. If we have more such photos of Shivaliks or Talwars together or with our destroyers please share.

Sahyadri(6200t) ported beside Kamorta(3300t) & Kolkata(7400t)...

When do we go for 6-7 in a go?
History mai we have always been fixated on batches of 3.
As I understand it, the Shivaliks came in place of a very early follow on P15. Non stealthy P15A essentially.

The lessons learned from that program directly led to the Kolkatas and Vizags. All that advancement in stuff like CMS, IPMS, hull shaping, integrated battlespace awareness, etc has now finally allowed us to order 7 ships in one go.

Ok. Got it. We're still ordering Talwars... So I wondered why didn't we order frigates alongside the P-15.

There is a looming threat of AShBM.

Frankly i think our destroyers atleast should get AShBM too alongside the standard load.

 

[125mm_Smoothbore]

@125mm_Smoothbore thanks a lot. If we have more such photos of Shivaliks or Talwars together or with our destroyers please share.

INS Teg with INS Chennai (from ex varuna with the french)


[another from the same ex]


[shivalim class with a kolkata class ddg]


[shivalik class with kora class corvette]


[ins shivalik with ins betwa]


[ins sehyadri woth komorta class doing replenishment with japanese tanker during ex malabar 2020

]

 

[RaMdAs]

Question Here: What happened to Indian Navy website? It's not working anymore, any idea?

 

[125mm_Smoothbore]

Question Here: What happened to Indian Navy website? It's not working anymore, any idea?

its working fine i guess https://www.joinindiannavy.gov.in/en/about-us/bases.html

btw @Binayak95 whats indian navy plan to do with the zorya gas turbines since the plant is redused to dust wouldnt there be issues with spares and all few years later ?

good that we moved on ge gas turbines and now brit ones

 

[Binayak95]

There is a looming threat of AShBM.

BARABAR pakde!

 

[Binayak95]

Yes but aren't the Barak 8s already optimized against tactical ballistic missiles in that range class??

Barak 8 is a very fine tool for everything from kamakaze drones to AShBMs, but then you have only so much of them. You want to retain them for the CMs swarming at wave top height, allocate really long range think SM class against long range vectors.

 

[Binayak95]

its working fine i guess https://www.joinindiannavy.gov.in/en/about-us/bases.html

btw @Binayak95 whats indian navy plan to do with the zorya gas turbines since the plant is redused to dust wouldnt there be issues with spares and all few years later ?

good that we moved on ge gas turbines and now brit ones

theres some JV between an Indian firm and Zorya for mfg and repair/refurb. New ships are going all LM 2500 and some IEP variant - maybe RR?

 

[Blood+]

Barak 8 is a very fine tool for everything from kamakaze drones to AShBMs, but then you have only so much of them. You want to retain them for the CMs swarming at wave top height, allocate really long range think SM class against long range vectors.

True but you can carry a lot more of the Barak 8s in a given space compared to an SM class interceptor. I mean these things have even smaller diameter than ESSMs, at least as far as publicly available information is concerned!!

 

[Fatalis]

True but you can carry a lot more of the Barak 8s in a given space compared to an SM class interceptor. I mean these things have even smaller diameter than ESSMs, at least as far as publicly available information is concerned!!

They are also very costly. Premium is paid to Israel even though we are the only one who uses it. Also, IN is now ditching the idea of using only one missile for air defence and is now focusing on developing an umbrella of different systems at different altitudes and ranges.

 

[Blood+]

They are also very costly. Premium is paid to Israel even though we are the only one who uses it. Also, IN is now ditching the idea of using only one missile for air defence and is now focusing on developing an umbrella of different systems at different altitudes and ranges.

I don't think the AD-1 and 2 series missiles will be any cheaper either. And besides, why not just create a version with all Indian components under a new name??

 

[Fatalis]

The projected requirement for DBMRH is 66 currently.

Why have we reduced the number from 123 to 66 for medium lift helicopters?
The same can be seen in case of light utility helicopters - requirement was of 111 but AOn only for 60 UHM.