Nice manipulation Blood to make someone type a long ahh post, anyways
Huh, and you took the bait hook, line and sinker!!
Before AD and EW we must look at Chinese defense industry in general. Given everything is state owned they either completely abandon their projects or make a new iteration of it irrespective of orders or sales. They never make a thing and then just wait for somebody to adopt it first; unlike a certain nation.
So in AD too, they definitely started with copied vanilla S-300 but then moved on.
Agreed.
• HQ-19 (at Zhuhai this year); THAAD type missile.
View attachment 15686
Yeah but this one is purely an anti-ballistic missile, therefore can be discounted for now.
• Also shown was FK-3B; comparatively worse performance than FK-3 but can be quad-packed
View attachment 15687
Yeah, saw it on sinodefence. The B is a short range variant though, in the same league as the ESSM and VL-SRSAM.
• HQ-9BE is claimed to be 300km ranged. • There were also few papers from various universities about dual mode, IIR-Radar seekers let alone Active Radar.
I was talking about current capabilities. As of now, PLAN's long range air-defense is being handled by the HHQ-9s and the 9Bs in the more recent boats.
• Obviously take it with a bag of salt as it's from the official mouthpiece, but still we also have this thingy
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...entists-plan-surface-air-missile-2000km-range
Supposedly a SM-3 analogues
yeah, saw that one - 2.5 ton SAM against a fighter - nah, I wouldn't worry too much. Thing will handle like a school bus would if it could fly.
• On top of that the cells of Type-055 looks way bigger than those of contemporaries; by estimation they look almost double in terms of cross section when compared to Mk-41. A theory that can be verified by that fact that their VLS is perhaps the only active one to be capable of launching Ballistic Missiles. So it has more versatility to future development.
They don't just look bigger, they ARE bigger... A LOT BIGGER, in fact!! Forget the Mk-41s, they are even larger than the Mk-57s!! That's one of the reason why I keep bitching and moaning about the lack of an UVLS in our service all the time here!!
As pointed by Sir, currently they're limited more by their radars and curvature of earth than the missiles.
Nah, by their missiles as well, but yeah, that will change sooner rather than later.
And even if current missiles are lacking then give them just one or two years and you find a new iteration.
Yeah.
Now as for S-300 you have to consider two things; what they were against and who were operating them. Throughout the Ukrainian invasion Russians soldiers have shown competence issues so again,
Blown out of proportion by the Western media but I can get behind that.
was the crew fully prepared? As for anti-SAM operations, US has the uncontested supremacy in Wild Weasel attacks and not because some secret technology but because of the simple fact that they have first mover advantage in this field with continuous improvements throughout the decades.
Yeah but these particular Israeli jets were NOT flying a SEAD mission at the time!! In fact, from the reports, it seems the Ruskies did manage to achieve at least some level of surprise, for a brief period of time at least.
Also Israeli pilots are hella good in their job. We have this assumption that big air-force like China or USA should also have the best pilots, but it's more of an art than science. Greek Air Force, despite small and lacking in fighters is claimed to have the best pilots.
No doubt about that.
So can S-300/400 be neutralized using good SEAD/DEAD? Definitely, I myself questioned the efficacy of S-400 and consider Kusha to be superior. But are we currently in a position to replicate the performance of Israeli Air Force? I'd say hardly; it's been just two years since we got our first indigenous ARM missile and still there's a long way to go.
We are most certainly not (and I know I'm gonna catch some flak for saying this, but it is what it is). But you wouldn't have to in this particular scenario.
I'm not going into that decoy thing as we both seems to be on the same page. And yup, STAR can be a good decoy for BrahMos if they manage to keep the costs
Yeah.
As for powered JDAM or glide bombs from MLRS, the thing is IMO there's just two ways in which you can effectively penetrate a naval defence; slower-stealthier (LRASM) or faster-detectable (BrahMos). And glide bombs even the powered ones are like the worst of both worlds; they're both unstealthy and also slower.
Yeah but you are not seeing the huge advantage that stuff like MLRS rockets and glide bombs bring - affordability!! Ask yourself this one question - how many powered JDAM type PGMs and MLRS rockets you can get for the price of a single BrahMos or a Storm Shadow?? Or how many 250 kg glide bombs can be carried by a single MKI (if given multiple ejector racks) as compared to BrahMos or even a Storm Shadow type missile??
With such a volume, their slower speed or lack of stealth won't even matter all that much!! Oh and by the way, even the USN and USAF are planning on employing this type PGMs in an anti-shipping role.
And besides, who says you can't make them stealth?? Allow me to introduce
Mr. JSOW
Remember one aspect of naval air defence that we often overlook is the fighters providing CAP.
I haven't overlooked it at all!!
As for their CIWS they are in USAF F-4 Phantom (we have AAM, we don't need guns, ditch them) phase, frankly every navy is. But after this whole Houthi encounter everyone seems to going back to drawing board for CIWS with special emphasis on increased magazine depth.
Agreed.
They've already shown pics of quad-packed cells in Type-055
View attachment 15700
And now with this
even smaller FK-3B (posted above) I'm guessing they can pack more than 4 in those cells.
Quite likely. That's why I've been advocating for us to develop an UVLS design based on the BrahMos cells but with its internal cross section changed to a square one and adapted for both hot and cold launch.
Also they've their versions of TOR system and in case of emergency you can always puts two three TORs modules on your warship; Russians do it regularly.
So definitely thier CIWS is less compared to even then Russians but not really.
Sem sem Sir
I've always said that USVs are highly underrated. The only wide scale use of USV we've seen is by Ukrainians and those too were make shifts drones...but still they proved hella effective. If full fledged R&D is done to make a proper USV (low RCS, all heat emitting object below waterline, jam resistant SatCom) then I'd present an unique challenge to the warships. You can't use any of your SAMs, radar guided CIWS would struggle picking it up amongst the waves, IR seeker wouldn't find sufficient contrast between it and the waters, can't use anti-torpedo countermeasures. The only option left would be small, radar guided fire and forget missiles like Brimstone. But now these can get as costly as a cheap USV. And if somehow you manage to add a small torpedo to it that gets fired as soon as the USV is destroyed, you get a pretty invincible weapon.
They also know this very well hence trying really hard to develop a ramjet powered long ranged SAM that will negate this energy bleed thing of rocket powered SAM. Hope we too add a M4 variant in Kusha with based on the SFDR test article.
Again it's more on an execution problem than a concept. For example take it integrated mast
View attachment 15709
And replace the top SatCom dome with something like a SAMPSON radar; S-band very long range
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And those flat primary radar panels with big X-band systems like AN/SPY-3.
As for SatCom you can have a smaller secondary mast dedicated just for it.
Nothing to further add here as we are pretty much on the same page.
J-16s with AESA radars and comparatively cheaper AAM would also be there.
And besides, that's precisely why I am in favor of extending the range of the PGMs as much as humanly possible and if we were to need the help of Uncle Sam to do it, then so be it. My plan?? Just yeet them at the PLAN ships from as far away as possible before you go cold while diving down to the fucking deck like their lives depended on it... well, they WILL depend on it.
Plus, I think our MKIs would be able to handle them once the 'Super' upgrades materialize.
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In my opinion the best option we would have for few years now is to launch a small salvo of BrahMos with a large number of decoys to mask them and then launch a bunch of LR-AShM so that all of them have the same time on target
Yeah but I still think that lobbing a few hundreds of PGMs and long range stealthy suicide drones each for good measure won't hurt. The point is to make them waste their irreplaceable air-defense missiles on the cheap stuff BEFORE you send in the real deal, to maximize your chances of their success.
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