Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Blademaster]

Dude, I said the same thing (more or less)!!

Great minds think alike!!

 

[Fatalis]

MR-SAM is the Army version of LR-SAM

Nope not anymore. All the three versions are now known as MRSAM only.

 

[Ayan Barat]

The MRSAM system is a standard fit, onboard multiple Indian Naval Ships and is planned to be fitted on the majority of the future platforms planned for acquisition. - From PIB

INS Tamala would be commissioned in 2025/26 and it'd be equipped with Shtil-1 despite the fact that Indian warships are firing Barak-8 since 2015. So even if Kusha is tested today, I don't think any ships from Nilgiri class would be sporting them. Maybe P-17B or P-18 would start to field them and then slowly with each MLU all older ships would get retrofitted.

So yeah, future ships would be fielding Barak-8s and we'd be needing around 300 more Barak-8s to sustain the stocks till everyone gets Kusha. So both the statements are not inclusive.

I mean, we have this one, don't we?? Granted, it's for VL-SRSAM but I don't see why a slightly bigger version cannot be made for a desi Barak 8.

Again, the seeker size is not an issue. Because if indeed it was then you already have a bigger seeker in the form of Akash-NG.
Which I'm pretty sure is also the seeker used on Kusha too given how they've written "short, medium and long ranged SAM"

It's either a lack of will or they simply know that Kusha is around the corner so why waste money on R&D of a missile that's already slated for retirement.

 

[Blood+]

INS Tamala would be commissioned in 2025/26 and it'd be equipped with Shtil-1 despite the fact that Indian warships are firing Barak-8 since 2015. So even if Kusha is tested today, I don't think any ships from Nilgiri class would be sporting them. Maybe P-17B or P-18 would start to field them and then slowly with each MLU all older ships would get retrofitted.

So yeah, future ships would be fielding Barak-8s and we'd be needing around 300 more Barak-8s to sustain the stocks till everyone gets Kusha. So both the statements are not inclusive.

Again, the seeker size is not an issue. Because if indeed it was then you already have a bigger seeker in the form of Akash-NG.
Which I'm pretty sure is also the seeker used on Kusha too given how they've written "short, medium and long ranged SAM"
View attachment 22038
It's either a lack of will or they simply know that Kusha is around the corner so why waste money on R&D of a missile that's already slated for retirement.

This one may already be on its way out as AESA-based seekers appear to be all the rage these days. But yes, overall, your assessment seems on point.

 

[Bleh]

Something interesting.

INS Traya, a Mobile Missile Coastal Battery (MMCB) Squadron stationed near Mumbai since 1964. Equipped with P 15M Termit missile based coastal batteries.

The need to be in A&N Isles

 

[shade2]

Nope not anymore. All the three versions are now known as MRSAM only.

btw what's up with this Sarkari lingo of using these alphabet soup names in official Press Release

They will not say "OtoMelara 76mm Strales" they will say "BHEL Upgraded SRGM"
They don't say "Barak-8 SAM" they say "MRSAM By BDL"

I hcope that it is because we have cloned the imported parts so don't want to get into diplomatic panga.

 

[Fatalis]

btw what's up with this Sarkari lingo of using these alphabet soup names in official Press Release

They will not say "OtoMelara 76mm Strales" they will say "BHEL Upgraded SRGM"
They don't say "Barak-8 SAM" they say "MRSAM By BDL"

I hcope that it is because we have cloned the imported parts so don't want to get into diplomatic panga.

We never used Barak-8 instead we used MRSAM.

MRSAM is the joint venture missile and tailor made to meet our needs. No other military uses MRSAM but only us.

 

[Bleh]

Nope not anymore. All the three versions are now known as MRSAM only.

Hol'up what's the difference between Naval MR-SAM & LR-SAM as on today then?

Also VL-SRSAM is necessary. A dual-pulse have it's used on longer ranges but Astra is touted as our most maneuverable dart at short ranges! There should be a battery of it on everything, further range extension comes later.

 

[shade2]

We never used Barak-8 instead we used MRSAM.

MRSAM is the joint venture missile and tailor made to meet our needs. No other military uses MRSAM but only us.

This is the one with 70km range?

Makes sense why people above were saying VL-SRSAM + Kusha missiles will be the full replacement of Barak-8 then

'Desi’ S-400: All about Project Kusha, India’s very own long-range air defence system

At the heart of Project Kusha is the development of Long-Range Surface-to-Air Missiles or LR-SAM. The project, first greenlit in 2022, was given Acceptance of Necessity last month.

theprint.in

different types of interceptor missiles designed to hit hostile targets at 150 km, 250 km, and 350 km ranges.

VL-SRSAM is said to be from 50km-80km range so these 4 would make a complete ADS layer

 

[Bleh]

Hol'up what's the difference between Naval MR-SAM & LR-SAM as on today then?

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NAVAL MR-SAM & LR-SAM?

 

[shade2]

There's in no UVLS, there's no UVLS in near future. Go through all the cross-section of some half a dozen missiles we've and also the different launch methods we use and you'll realise how tough it is to develop a VLS when you're going backwards.

I meant a more limited UVLS for Kusha + VL-SRSAM missiles( hot launch ? ), and another different one for , Nirbhay type bigger missile ( cold launch )

Is this feasible or is it just better going with individual VLSs ?

Like ignoring Tomahawk, LRSASM, ASCROC and all, Mk41 VLS can handle ESSM, SM-2, SM-6 and SM-3.




imo if they decide on UVLS now they can make design changes to the Kusha missiles to fit the VLS, and they can make changes in the successor for VL-SRSAM based on Astra mk2/mk3 to fit this UVLS.

 

[Blood+]

I meant a more limited UVLS for Kusha + VL-SRSAM missiles( hot launch ? ), and another different one for , Nirbhay type bigger missile ( cold launch )

Is this feasible or is it just better going with individual VLSs ?

Like ignoring Tomahawk, LRSASM, ASCROC and all, Mk41 VLS can handle ESSM, SM-2, SM-6 and SM-3.


View attachment 22045

imo if they decide on UVLS now they can make design changes to the Kusha missiles to fit the VLS, and they can make changes in the successor for VL-SRSAM based on Astra mk2/mk3 to fit this UVLS.

Why not make the UVLS both hot and cold launch capable?? The Chinese already did that??!!

Or we could go the Russian route and create two different UVLS types - one for them thicc boys like BrahMos/ any future hypersonic AShMs and another Mk-41 style one for smaller LACMs and all types of SAMs.
Even the Americans seem to be moving in this direction with their Zumwalt DDGs.

 

[Fatalis]

Hol'up what's the difference between Naval MR-SAM & LR-SAM as on today then?

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NAVAL MR-SAM & LR-SAM

Previously, Indian Navy used to call the Indo-Israeli missile as LRSAM whereas the Army and Air Force used to call it MRSAM but there was an indigenous program to develop long range sam which is now known as PG-LRSAM AKA Kusha so to avoid confusion Indian Navy changed the name of Indo-Israeli missile from LRSAM to MRSAM. So, now this missile is known as MRSAM in all the tri-service.

 

[Ayan Barat]

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NAVAL MR-SAM & LR-SAM?

They say a picture's worth thousand words...

Nirbhay type bigger missile ( cold launch )

Nirbhay's hot launched, not cold

I'd suggest you stop straining your brain so much on VLS and just sit back and enjoy life. We'll have our Mk-41 when we'd be supposed to have one

 

[shade2]

Nirbhay's hot launched, not cold

I'd suggest you stop straining your brain so much on VLS and just sit back and enjoy life. We'll have our Mk-41 when we'd be supposed to have one

Arre what brain strain? I'm only doing timepass discussion and learning here since myself I don't know much about defense tech before checking this thread, some other and googling stuff

UVLS and all is beyond our control and we don't know what the Admirals and DRDO walas are doing no point stressing about this all

Why not make the UVLS both hot and cold launch capable?? The Chinese already did that??!!

Too complex and knowing our DRDO/DPSU lead times...

Or we could go the Russian route and create two different UVLS types - one for them thicc boys like BrahMos/ any future hypersonic AShMs and another Mk-41 style one for smaller LACMs and all types of SAMs.
Even the Americans seem to be moving in this direction with their Zumwalt DDGs.

I also think this is the way, but the focus must be on developing UVLS for the 3 Project Kusha missiles, since these are already in development so making changes shouldn't be much of a problem.

Once this VLS is ready they can make a Mk2 of the current VL-SRSAM to make it quad-packable in the Kusha VLS, like burgers did with ESSM vs older Sea Sparrow



Then again you never know what the Admirals are thinking but we have the main pieces in development with the LRMFR for Radar, Kusha missiles and they just need a UVLS for those Kusha missiles

 

[vampyrbladez]

What if future warships have a mix of smaller VLS for SAM (SM6, Aster 30, Kusha (Barak 8 Pro Max)) and larger VLS for hypersonic and ballistic missile based weaponry (LRAshM, CPS).

Large VLS

• APM (3 x CPS Hypersonic missile per silo)

The CPS system is modular, featuring an all-up round missile and a separate modular payload adapter. Wolfe said the Navy is currently testing the adapter, the missile and the eject system.

“We’re testing and building the Payload Modular Adapter, aside from what’s going on on the actual ship,” Wolfe said.

Zumwalt will have four large diameter tubes that can each fit three missiles, meaning each destroyer can carry up to 12 missiles.

https://news.usni.org/2024/11/14/na...rompt-strike-tests-aboard-uss-zumwalt-in-2027

• G-VLS

“But as part of being able to do a larger diameter missile, you could say take an eight-cell Mk.41 out, put what would be a four-cell with an exhaust on it. But those four cells would be able to handle quad packs of traditional missile canister-sized, or potentially larger missiles that will be coming in the future. So that’s part of one of the things we’re investing in that will help us maximize what you can do from your loadout perspectives and potentially even increase. Because if you think about it, with a four-cell quad pack that’s sixteen and more than the eight that were originally there, just because we changed the structure.”

https://www.navalnews.com/event-new...ed-martin-developing-new-larger-vls-for-ddgx/

• K-VLS II

Most significantly, the KVLS-II is larger than its predecessor, meaning that bigger missiles can be accommodated. According to available data, the KVLS-II is at least 3 feet (0.9m) wide and 30 feet (9.1m) deep, compared to 2 feet (0.63m) wide and 22 feet (6.8m) deep for the Mk 41 and KVLS. This equates to the ability to launch much larger weapons with far greater internal volume.

https://www.twz.com/news-features/south-koreas-new-destroyer-is-designed-to-fire-ballistic-missiles

 

[vampyrbladez]

Prospective future designs :

• DDG(X)

The new rendering strikes the 5-inch Mark 45 gun entirely, a staple of U.S. Navy large surface combatants. The existing Mark 41 VLS modules have been rearranged, now installed in what appears to be four 8×2 cell modules stacked front to back. This design allows for additional room for larger diameter VLS modules in the future like Lockheed Martin’s G-VLS

https://www.navalnews.com/event-new...destroyer-loses-main-gun-in-latest-rendering/

• G-VLS

• KDDX

In terms of weapon systems, the KDDX will be equipped with a Mk 45 5-inch main gun, two CIWS-II systems, eight anti-ship missiles (potentially the C-Star by LIG NEX 1), as well as KVLS-I and KVLS-II to accommodate the new naval version of the L-SAM (함대공유도탄-II). L-SAM will provide greater air defense and cruise missile interception capabilities to the fleet.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...design-of-the-korean-next-gen-destroyer-kddx/

https://www.twz.com/news-features/south-koreas-new-destroyer-is-designed-to-fire-ballistic-missiles

• NGD

The missile launch system consists of 4 Ship Launching Systems (SLS) in the aft section which rests at 0° when not in used but the alignment is changed to 90° during test launches.

INS Anvesh (A41) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[shade2]

Prospective future designs :

• DDG(X)

https://www.navalnews.com/event-new...destroyer-loses-main-gun-in-latest-rendering/

• KDDX

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...design-of-the-korean-next-gen-destroyer-kddx/

• NGD

INS Anvesh (A41) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 22089

There is no actual NGD design in public nor are there any confirmed specs.

The 3D render is an Italian DDX design that has been used in a certain IN video showcasing cooperative engagement capability.

Unfortunately we can only speculate and hope( or cope )

There are many complexities to the NGD project, from the actual ship design and building to sub-systems like LRMFR radar and Kusha SAMs which are also under development.

If all goes well however this will be the truly Make in India ship apart from the engines which will be RollsRoyce because of the Admiral's love for IEP.

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1879894144317112738

>Jet propulsion to keep the French reasonable since there is also RR if Safran doesn't agree for jet engine collab
>IEP ofc is the more serious thing because Navy is pursuing it and Anglo seems to have the most IEP implementations, don't know if this is exclusive to RR or some other Anglo company

 

[shade2]

INS Surat pics


View: https://x.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1879151222298431949

Top view showing armament



Guess these are sea trials pictures