Indian Politics and Democracy

[crazywithmath]

You can look at it this way. I think the battle is between category and caste. Meena, Yadavs etc had monopolized the Ambedkar movement. All because they benefitted from being in a reserved category and assumed the role of that said categories leadership.
The caste census will lay bare these Kangers. Meenas had especially been very very antinational. They will be the first ones to face the axe with their co-categorists throwing them out.

In end the opposition wanted to stroke the ambedkar spirit. They will get its full wrath. BJP is also more positioned to absorb different caste groups in its fold than others.

I believe the Mahamanush expects the following:
1. Pure Caste vs Caste RR
2. Maybe Hindutva will become umbrella under which that RR happens.

Arrey, I am saying Ji is status quo-ist; sometimes hopelessly so. He does not do big bang dhamaka announcements (Demo was a notable exception). Even the GST and the removal of article 370 were a long time coming and debated to death. There will be a few changes here and a few changes there but his broader policy calls are unlikely to change - there is no caste vs category angle in play here.

His gormint has successfully mooched off all the talking points of the opposition since LS 2024 - they have copied their targeted freebie programmes (while cutting down somewhere else and hence, keeping the deficit nos unchanged), they have started singing bhajans of Amberdkar and co and now, promising to do a 'catse enumertaion'. They have also tweaked their pension schemes a bit and the demands of the 'old pension scheme' have died out since.

Fiscal consolidation (they are obsessed with it, despite the potential electoral fall-outs) + economic conservatism with some pro business and pro manufacturing policies thrown here and there + hard/soft infra build-up + moderate dose of Hindutva (CAA, article 370, Waqf amendment act) + broadly maintaining status quo on socio economic issues = Ji's policy

 

[crazywithmath]

@Ajayant Tripathi

Ji is status quoist to an extent that he won't even cut fuel prices despite crude falling to historic lows. Won't go scout for oilfields despite the falling prices. Takes an eternity to discuss FTAs even with countries who have been historically pro free trade and produce too little to even make an impact on our domestic market. Has maintained the equilibrium on reservations etc and won't do anything drastic to choke pakis/kanglus.

I do enough vidhwa vilaap on the ecnomy thread so don't want to eleborate further on these points but you can see why so many of his supporters/voters abuse him - just cuz he values status quo. All these folks speculating over him breaching the 50% ceiling, introducing quotas in the private sector and what not are taking these things way too seriously, me thinks.

 

[Ajayant Tripathi]

Arrey, I am saying Ji is status quo-ist; sometimes hopelessly so. He does not do big bang dhamaka announcements (Demo was a notable exception). Even the GST and the removal of article 370 were a long time coming and debated to death. There will be a few changes here and a few changes there but his broader policy calls are unlikely to change - there is no caste vs category angle in play here.

His gormint has successfully mooched off all the talking points of the opposition since LS 2024 - they have copied their targeted freebie programmes (while cutting down somewhere else and hence, keeping the deficit nos unchanged), they have started singing bhajans of Amberdkar and co and now, promising to do a 'catse enumertaion'.

Fiscal consolidation (they are obsessed with it, despite the potential electoral fall-outs) + economic conservatism with some pro business and pro manufacturing policies thrown here and there + hard/soft infra build-up + moderate dose of Hindutva (CAA, article 370, Waqf amendment act) + broadly maintaining status quo on socio economic issues = Ji's policy

I understood bro. He is not revolutionary. He is evolutionary. Contrary to many he also has the humility to backtrack when need be. I was disappointed when he retracted farm laws but simultaneously i was relieved. Thats why he is a leader

It was long coming LS results made clear that SC/ST vote base is a swing voter now. He is consolidating them with this census. He announced it so early so that it will be be debated to death by the time census will happen. He is actually making the opposition more and more eccentric.

But still the consequences of the census will be very very real and will upset many set equations in our politics. We don't know how he will go about it. But still their will be quakes in well settled caste world.

 

[crazywithmath]

I understood bro. He is not revolutionary. He is evolutionary. Contrary to many he also has the humility to backtrack when need be. I was disappointed when he retracted farm laws but simultaneously i was relieved. Thats why he is a leader

It was long coming LS results made clear that SC/ST vote base is a swing voter now. He is consolidating them with this census. He announced it so early so that it will be be debated to death by the time census will happen. He is actually making the opposition more and more eccentric.

But still the consequences of the census will be very very real and will upset many set equations in our politics. We don't know how he will go about it. But still their will be quakes in well settled caste world.

What exactly will the consequences be tho? The estimates of SC/ST/OBC/UC/Muslims were already done by the NSSO and available on the public domain. Booth level party workers know these numbers. Even the 2011 caste enumeration exercise (done in parallel with the general census and never released officially) was strategically 'leaked' on the national media. A number of states have conducted similar surveys/censuses since.

Not conducting another 'enumeration exercise' does not do a great job keeping the Pandora's box closed is all I am saying.

 

[Vinod Patter]

I believe the current alienation is actually perptuated by the Unionist Mission Discourse. I have found it to be similar to Ambedkarite discourse where the starting point is ambedkar and in unionist mission discourse its Sir Chhotu Ram ji. The religion is completely sidestepped by them instead focussing on practises and some folklores.

Practises and culture of JAT is pure dharmik culture without any pollution where Jati and Kul vyavastha is respected. Genuine Jat don't like congress because there used to be a lot of propaganda against JAT customes by left leaning individuals during congress era, propaganda against Khap panchayats , Khap panchayats which saved Jats from the onslaught of Gauri and Gajnavi. BJP came to power with Hindutva ideology, Hindutva ideology require individuals to shun caste/ethnic identity. JATs see this ideology as Islamisation of native culture and expect JAT to alter their customes accordingly. So both leftist and Hindutva want JATs to act according to their whims and wishes. In present times those leftist who used to spew venom against JATs , now consider them as their asset against RSS. Reality is these leftist hate JAT more than anything. Reality is JAT don't need any dilution of their customs to fight against Islamissm, they have their own institution far more older than these ideologies. I don't want to offend anyone but JAT feel more comfortable with Haryanvi Brahmins all other Brahmins are considered lot more compromising in terms of culture.

 

[Ajayant Tripathi]

What exactly will the consequences be tho? The estimates of SC/ST/OBC/UC/Muslims were already done by the NSSO and available on the public domain. Booth level party workers know these numbers. Even the 2011 caste enumeration exercise (done in parallel with the general census and never released officially) was strategically 'leaked' on the national media. A number of states have conducted similar surveys/censuses since.

Not conducting another 'enumeration exercise' does not do a great job keeping the Pandora's box closed is all I am saying.

I got what you are saying. You mean it doesn't and will not have any effect ,right? You are extrapolating it from leaderji's preference to eschew chaos. I get it what you are saying.

My views are dependent on the fact that a census data point carries a reference and standard value. Its datapoint becomes a factual datapoint. So, yes there will be some turmoil. Other castes will surely rebel against dominant caste in their categories demanding their own fare share. Surveys and samples, or booth wise analysis of electoral roll do not carry that hard factual value like census.

 

[crazywithmath]

I got what you are saying. You mean it doesn't and will not have any effect ,right? You are extrapolating it from leaderji's preference to eschew chaos. I get it what you are saying.

My points;

1. These SC/ST/OBC/UC/Muslim %s are already well known. A survey/census won't reveal stuff that we already do not know about.

2. They do not need a census to breach the 50% ceiling or bring quotas in the private sector. They can already pass a bill and put in on the 9th schedule.

3. The incumbent does not prefer drastic changes and is extremely averse to policies that damage economic/investment outlook - their politics is based on dhandho and dhandho only.

4. Some of the partywallahs and even the RSS leaders have been very clear about their stands in recent years. Even NDA allies like Paswan (who himself leads a caste based party) were saying that they wanted to conduct surveys etc but making their findings public would be 'bad politics' post LS 2024.

Make of it what you will.

 

[Ajayant Tripathi]

My points;

1. These SC/ST/OBC/UC/Muslim %s are already well known. A survey/census won't reveal stuff that we already do not know about.

2. They do not need a census to breach the 50% ceiling or bring quotas in the private sector. They can already pass a bill and put in on the 9th schedule.

3. The incumbent does not prefer drastic changes and is extremely averse to policies that damage economic/investment outlook - their politics is based on dhandho and dhandho only.

4. Some of the partywallahs and even the RSS leaders have been very clear about their stands in recent years. Even leaders Paswan were saying that he wanted to conduct surveys etc but making their findings public would be 'bad politics' post LS 2024.

Make of it what you will.

1. Census is to give it factual status. Not to reveal some surprise. I hope we do not get any surprise.
2. Yes, They can do it. But the idea is to debate it to the death and preferably make ground for subcategorization. Here we all are running our wild fertile imagination wild.
3. Yes, Thats why i limited myself to only census. Yes, I believe Leaderji surely has a plan to move forward without rocking the boat.
4. Yes, They way back had made clear they are not against caste census if need be.

 

[crazywithmath]

1. Census is to give it factual status. Not to reveal some surprise. I hope we do not get any surprise.
2. Yes, They can do it. But the idea is to debate it to the death and preferably make ground for subcategorization. Here we all are running our wild fertile imagination wild.
3. Yes, Thats why i limited myself to only census. Yes, I believe Leaderji surely has a plan to move forward without rocking the boat.
4. Yes, They way back had made clear they are not against caste census if need be.

On point 1, they are already bringing sub categorization in Haryana - no census was conducted to set a precedent. They just formed a comission, made a report and got done with it.

 

[Anants]

View: https://x.com/venom1s/status/1917573519610896574

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GpyW8okWsAAsQb1?format=jpg&name=large

View: https://x.com/abhivatsa/status/1917968499357475296

 

[Jason Roy]

Private sector reservation is never gonna come ever even if RaGa remains the PM for continuous 10 years. Forceful private sector reservation is impossible. UPA govt in its 10 years discussed with all the stakeholders....and came to zero. At the end, they are too funded by corporates....it would be dead kneel for them. In their 2004, 2009 manifestos...they mentioned private sector reservations...... subsequently later and in 2024 too...they didn't mention any private sector reservation....they now talk about a diversity commision which is most likely awarding corporates with subsidizes and tax benifits for diversity hiring and voluntary actions by corporates.They want to increase public sector reservation cuz they see it to be the only option left for them.
This is a article back from 2006...when it was in advanced discussions with corporates which obviously backfired.
It's not all gloom and doom....I do think they understand their limits with a thin line very well.

Aimed at garnering votes, UPA push for reservations in education, private sector jobs

The National Rural Employment Guarantee Bill, the Forests Land for Tribals Bill, the newly-mooted quota in central universities and now, the proposition of jobs for Dalits in the private sector are all aimed at inclusive growth. These all are steps to ramp up vote share to take the Congress...

www.indiatoday.in

 

[Azaad]

View attachment 32717

View attachment 32718

WB govt's Jagannath Temple ad mistakenly mentions 'female vibrators',

An advertisement by the West Bengal.

View attachment 32719

No mistake. Begum patronizes that store.

 

[Azaad]

Only beneficial side effect I can see is the introduction of 'Creamy Layer' to SC/ST and possibly better mapping of EWS for General Caste (maybe even vertical reservation).

The Supreme Court wanted to establish some criteria and empirical evidence for introduction of 'Creamy Layer' to SC/ST.


https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...on-creamy-layer-for-scsts/article69081461.ece

That's the end game. However the BJP will be wary of touching the issue directly. The aim as I see it would be to make public the findings of the caste census once the exercise is completed & let those subordinate sub castes among SCs & STs come up with such demands , preferably move the courts which by the looks of it will favour such a policy.

It also makes for the creation of dedicated vote banks. With courts intervention , the BJP also insulates itself from the backlash of the dominant sub castes in this grouping.

The RSS itself has been rather muted and has been cautious about any kind of statement.



https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...-rss-a-cautious-approach-101746038776720.html

The RSS itself has been trying to call for Hindu unification as early as a week ago (April 20, 2025).

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/rss-chief-calls-for-hindu-community-to-end-caste-differences-one-temple-one-well-one-cremation-ground-101745146651892.html

Bhagwat made the mistake of asking for a sunset clause for reservations just before the Bihar 2015 elections & got singed for it.

It's a question of once bitten twice shy.

 

[Azaad]

As I've said that there are some sneaky stuffs hidden behind this move.
Here people will call you Modi ke tatte, Andhabhakt for pointing it out as Indians are incapable of seeing things in the long run & they lack in strategising.
Caste census neither is gonna suppress Palagham incident nor is it gonna help in Bihar election.
Nitish kumar & BJP combined would win anyways. Modi doesn't need to do caste census for that.

The census will be done on Muslims & Christians as well. Modi is actually targetting converted Tattus & their lobbies. It will have a huge impact in the South. There are so many Christians who are still using Hindu names for caste benefits. All will be exposed & segregated.
Dunno what arithmetic is at play here but something is definitely COOKING

This is a double edged sword. There's long been a demand especially by Christian groups backed by the church for reservations for so called Dalit Christians which the last CJI ChandraChooth threatened to take suo moto recognition of till the GoI managed to defused the situation by setting up a commission to look into the matter by ex CJI Balakrishnan.

The commission was given a 2 year time period which expired last year same time post which they got an extension by which time ChandraChooth superannuated. But this sword will keep dangling over every government's head till permanent measures aren't taken to dispose off the matter once & for all.

Further I hope Leaderji & his merry men don't get bright ideas about extending these groups reservations especially the pasmandas as some sort of brilliant strategy to divide the community & do it within the existing quotas for that's a sureshot way of OBC / SC / ST getting together to demand an increase in quotas. Both the RSS & BJP are quite capable of coming up with such brainwaves.

Finally there's this vexing issue of crypto Muslims & Christians especially the latter who having converted still claim reservations for on paper they haven't changed their religious allegiance. This is being actively encouraged by the Church & has been documented extensively.

How will this caste based census weed out such cases & this is a very serious issue coz we're talking about lakhs of such cases if not a couple of crores. Entire villages in AP have converted to Christianity thanks to YSR & his son.

Besides what is to be done to people who've already claimed such benefits for while there's a law which deals sternly with such cases establishing the facts aren't easy .

There's the well known case of Customs & Excise officer Sameer Wankhede the guy who imprisoned Shahrukh Khan's son . His father is an SC while his mother was a muslim & he was brought up as a muslim .

His first marriage was solemnised as per Muslim rites which eventually ended up in a divorce & his second marriage was to a Marathi actress solemnised as per Hindu rituals.

He himself owes his position in the IRS to reservation . There were allegations against him for falsely claiming the benefits of reservations in spite of being a muslim .

After a lengthy investigation he was given a clean chit whereas this was the right opportunity to nail him , prosecute him & send message to the society at large.

One can see how deep the rot has set in.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

Just want to say here, RSS and BJP have shown multiple times that they can manage through dicey situations, everybody was saying they will lose all northern states post farm laws, but they went on to win all of them.

Most people said modi govt won't survive after LS 2024 election, yet it won 3 elections in row and got it of waqf. Hold your horses for now, let things play out a bit.

 

[crazywithmath]

Private sector reservation is never gonna come ever even if RaGa remains the PM for continuous 10 years. Forceful private sector reservation is impossible. UPA govt in its 10 years discussed with all the stakeholders....and came to zero. At the end, they are too funded by corporates....it would be dead kneel for them. In their 2004, 2009 manifestos...they mentioned private sector reservations......

 Imagine if we had social media in 2004. People are bhosdapilling now cuz of mere optics but back then the ruling party was actively debating private sector reservations.


Anyway, you are right. Even the clown Prince won't do it.

subsequently later and in 2024 too...they didn't mention any private sector reservation....they now talk about a diversity commision which is most likely awarding corporates with subsidizes and tax benifits for diversity hiring and voluntary actions by corporates.They want to increase public sector reservation cuz they see it to be the only option left for them.

They copied it from some DC based gora think tank. There were other policy ideas (on their manifesto) like - 'student loan waivers' and 'gender agenda' which were a dead giveaway. @ezsasa made some posts on old DFI.

Breaching that 50% ceiling is super tricky, btw. The union govt will have to place it on the 9th schedule and even then it is not guaranteed to survive a judicial scrutiny since TN's exemption was meant to be a one time exception and that doctrine has prevailed since. UPA 1 and 2 could not do it. None of the states could do it.

This is a article back from 2006...when it was in advanced discussions with corporates which obviously backfired.
It's not all gloom and doom....I do think they understand their limits with a thin line very well.

Aimed at garnering votes, UPA push for reservations in education, private sector jobs

The National Rural Employment Guarantee Bill, the Forests Land for Tribals Bill, the newly-mooted quota in central universities and now, the proposition of jobs for Dalits in the private sector are all aimed at inclusive growth. These all are steps to ramp up vote share to take the Congress...

www.indiatoday.in

Thanks for quoting the article.

That's the end game.

Yeah, it was a long time coming. A lot of members will not like to hear it, but in an electoral democracy parties will keep bringing up demands and counter demands to get back at each other - the system is designed that way.

They made some tweaks on the NPS and suddenly OPS is not being demanded anymore. They copied Kejriwal's freebies but kept them limited in scope - while cutting down elsewhere and now, their ladli behnas are a hit! Here too, they are aiming to bring subcategorization to dent the demands raised by those opposition parties - was listening to Pradeep Bhandari's words, BJP spokies are quite clear on it.

It also makes for the creation of dedicated vote banks. With courts intervention , the BJP also insulates itself from the backlash of the dominant sub castes in this grouping.


Bhagwat made the mistake of asking for a sunset clause for reservations just before the Bihar 2015 elections & got singed for it.

It's a question of once bitten twice shy.

Yes, I remember that bottlejob. He should have been careful with his words.

If say they implement reservations in pvt sector, how will states like TN feel about it, they have pretty much grown on pvt sector activities .

TN, Maha, Haryana, Karnataka, NCR - nobody will do it. The limited political rewards are not worth it for your average asshole career politician.

 

[crazywithmath]

 Imagine if we had social media in 2004. People are bhosdapilling now cuz of mere optics but back then the ruling party was actively debating private sector reservations.


Anyway, you are right. Even the clown Prince won't do it.



They copied it from some DC based gora think tank. There were other policy ideas (on their manifesto) like - 'student loan waivers' and 'gender agenda' which were a dead giveaway. @ezsasa made some posts on old DFI.

Breaching that 50% ceiling is super tricky, btw. The union govt will have to place it on the 9th schedule and even then it is not guaranteed to survive a judicial scrutiny since TN's exemption was meant to be a one time exception and that doctrine has prevailed since. UPA 1 and 2 could not do it. None of the states could do it.



Thanks for quoting the article.



Yeah, it was a long time coming. A lot of members will not like to hear it, but in an electoral democracy parties will keep bringing up demands and counter demands to get back at each other - the system is designed that way.

They made some tweaks on the NPS and suddenly OPS is not being demanded anymore. They copied Kejriwal's freebies but kept them limited in scope - while cutting down elsewhere and now, their ladli behnas are a hit! Here too, they are aiming to bring subcategorization to dent the demands raised by those opposition parties - was listening to Pradeep Bhandari's words, BJP spokies are quite clear on it.



Yes, I remember that bottlejob. He should have been careful with his words.

BTW, all these discussions notwithstanding, memberans should continue ranting on social media platforms. This govt cares about its image, they have shown it time and time again. Social media outrages have prompted policy u-turns before.

They are listening.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

If say they implement reservations in pvt sector, how will states like TN feel about it, they have pretty much grown on pvt sector activities .

Govt rn has too many things on their desk, the whole situation with pakis, dealing with trump's hourly mood swings, economy and investment policy and now political storm with caste census.

 

[Azaad]

Everything I saw at RSS school started to unfold at BHU: JNUSU president Nitish Kumar

Nitish Kumar's political evolution from RSS school student to JNUSU president reflects a shift in worldview shaped by experience.

www.thehindu.com

Must say the future of Bihar is bright given the new generation of youth leaders it's birthed from KK to this chappie & many more.

We've already the example of Nitiswa who reportedly chided a babooo for suggesting Bihar invite the Tatas to their state back in 2007 given the ruckus in Singur - WB then thanks to Begum , coz as a commited socialist he didn't want his record tarnished by hob nobbing with poonji patis to set up industries in Bihar.

You may be glad to know the glorious tradition will be honoured , in all likelihood , for a long long time to come.

Alhamdulillah !

 

[Jason Roy]

If say they implement reservations in pvt sector, how will states like TN feel about it, they have pretty much grown on pvt sector activities .

Govt rn has too many things on their desk, the whole situation with pakis, dealing with trump's hourly mood swings, economy and investment policy and now political storm with caste census.

Apart from tattu parties like RJD and random gunda turned politicians like Chandrashekhar Azad, nobody talks about caste based reservation in private sector today. These parties/individuals have nothing to lose cuz their main source of funding does not from corporates/MNCs but from exhortions and other dirty ways.
We may cuss them as much as we want and not like them for their ideology but DMK and INC are not that stupid and they know their limits.....they have their own stakeholders.
Forget Tamil Nadu even Congress ruled Karnataka and Telengana are probably the most corporate friendly states today apart from the BJP ruled ones.
Let's forget caste based reservations and come to this.
Last year in July, Karnataka govt with Siddaramaiah came out with their Domicile Reservation policy....which not only faced heavy backlash from all industrial bodies across India but their ministers like MB Patil, Kharge's son, DK shivakumar and others were surprised that the cabinet meeting took place without their presence ....all the ministries except those few present in Siddu's cabinet were clueless. Even Cong High command was totally clueless. Then they began the damage control....and removed all the posts of the bill being passed in cabinet from social media.
It was most likely a distraction tactic by Siddaramaiah as back then he was/is accused of multiple scams.....Months later.....to clean all apprehensions of such a retrograde step they came up with this local skill development policy. Anyways, it was not legally possible to enact the bill and have high BP to all the companies working in Bengaluru.

https://www.business-standard.com/india-news/rs-300-cr-skill-training-initiative-for-youth-launched-by-karnataka-govt-124090901259_1.html