Indian Politics and Democracy

[crazywithmath]

You can look at it this way. I think the battle is between category and caste. Meena, Yadavs etc had monopolized the Ambedkar movement. All because they benefitted from being in a reserved category and assumed the role of that said categories leadership.
The caste census will lay bare these Kangers. Meenas had especially been very very antinational. They will be the first ones to face the axe with their co-categorists throwing them out.

In end the opposition wanted to stroke the ambedkar spirit. They will get its full wrath. BJP is also more positioned to absorb different caste groups in its fold than others.

I believe the Mahamanush expects the following:
1. Pure Caste vs Caste RR
2. Maybe Hindutva will become umbrella under which that RR happens.

Arrey, I am saying Ji is status quo-ist; sometimes hopelessly so. He does not do big bang dhamaka announcements (Demo was a notable exception). Even the GST and the removal of article 370 were a long time coming and debated to death. There will be a few changes here and a few changes there but his broader policy calls are unlikely to change - there is no caste vs category angle in play here.

His gormint has successfully mooched off all the talking points of the opposition since LS 2024 - they have copied their targeted freebie programmes (while cutting down somewhere else and hence, keeping the deficit nos unchanged), they have started singing bhajans of Amberdkar and co and now, promising to do a 'catse enumertaion'. They have also tweaked their pension schemes a bit and the demands of the 'old pension scheme' have died out since.

Fiscal consolidation (they are obsessed with it, despite the potential electoral fall-outs) + economic conservatism with some pro business and pro manufacturing policies thrown here and there + hard/soft infra build-up + moderate dose of Hindutva (CAA, article 370, Waqf amendment act) + broadly maintaining status quo on socio economic issues = Ji's policy

 

[crazywithmath]

@Ajayant Tripathi

Ji is status quoist to an extent that he won't even cut fuel prices despite crude falling to historic lows. Won't go scout for oilfields despite the falling prices. Takes an eternity to discuss FTAs even with countries who have been historically pro free trade and produce too little to even make an impact on our domestic market. Has maintained the equilibrium on reservations etc and won't do anything drastic to choke pakis/kanglus.

I do enough vidhwa vilaap on the ecnomy thread so don't want to eleborate further on these points but you can see why so many of his supporters/voters abuse him - just cuz he values status quo. All these folks speculating over him breaching the 50% ceiling, introducing quotas in the private sector and what not are taking these things way too seriously, me thinks.

 

[Ajayant Tripathi]

Arrey, I am saying Ji is status quo-ist; sometimes hopelessly so. He does not do big bang dhamaka announcements (Demo was a notable exception). Even the GST and the removal of article 370 were a long time coming and debated to death. There will be a few changes here and a few changes there but his broader policy calls are unlikely to change - there is no caste vs category angle in play here.

His gormint has successfully mooched off all the talking points of the opposition since LS 2024 - they have copied their targeted freebie programmes (while cutting down somewhere else and hence, keeping the deficit nos unchanged), they have started singing bhajans of Amberdkar and co and now, promising to do a 'catse enumertaion'.

Fiscal consolidation (they are obsessed with it, despite the potential electoral fall-outs) + economic conservatism with some pro business and pro manufacturing policies thrown here and there + hard/soft infra build-up + moderate dose of Hindutva (CAA, article 370, Waqf amendment act) + broadly maintaining status quo on socio economic issues = Ji's policy

I understood bro. He is not revolutionary. He is evolutionary. Contrary to many he also has the humility to backtrack when need be. I was disappointed when he retracted farm laws but simultaneously i was relieved. Thats why he is a leader

It was long coming LS results made clear that SC/ST vote base is a swing voter now. He is consolidating them with this census. He announced it so early so that it will be be debated to death by the time census will happen. He is actually making the opposition more and more eccentric.

But still the consequences of the census will be very very real and will upset many set equations in our politics. We don't know how he will go about it. But still their will be quakes in well settled caste world.

 

[crazywithmath]

I understood bro. He is not revolutionary. He is evolutionary. Contrary to many he also has the humility to backtrack when need be. I was disappointed when he retracted farm laws but simultaneously i was relieved. Thats why he is a leader

It was long coming LS results made clear that SC/ST vote base is a swing voter now. He is consolidating them with this census. He announced it so early so that it will be be debated to death by the time census will happen. He is actually making the opposition more and more eccentric.

But still the consequences of the census will be very very real and will upset many set equations in our politics. We don't know how he will go about it. But still their will be quakes in well settled caste world.

What exactly will the consequences be tho? The estimates of SC/ST/OBC/UC/Muslims were already done by the NSSO and available on the public domain. Booth level party workers know these numbers. Even the 2011 caste enumeration exercise (done in parallel with the general census and never released officially) was strategically 'leaked' on the national media. A number of states have conducted similar surveys/censuses since.

Not conducting another 'enumeration exercise' does not do a great job keeping the Pandora's box closed is all I am saying.

 

[Vinod Patter]

I believe the current alienation is actually perptuated by the Unionist Mission Discourse. I have found it to be similar to Ambedkarite discourse where the starting point is ambedkar and in unionist mission discourse its Sir Chhotu Ram ji. The religion is completely sidestepped by them instead focussing on practises and some folklores.

Practises and culture of JAT is pure dharmik culture without any pollution where Jati and Kul vyavastha is respected. Genuine Jat don't like congress because there used to be a lot of propaganda against JAT customes by left leaning individuals during congress era, propaganda against Khap panchayats , Khap panchayats which saved Jats from the onslaught of Gauri and Gajnavi. BJP came to power with Hindutva ideology, Hindutva ideology require individuals to shun caste/ethnic identity. JATs see this ideology as Islamisation of native culture and expect JAT to alter their customes accordingly. So both leftist and Hindutva want JATs to act according to their whims and wishes. In present times those leftist who used to spew venom against JATs , now consider them as their asset against RSS. Reality is these leftist hate JAT more than anything. Reality is JAT don't need any dilution of their customs to fight against Islamissm, they have their own institution far more older than these ideologies. I don't want to offend anyone but JAT feel more comfortable with Haryanvi Brahmins all other Brahmins are considered lot more compromising in terms of culture.

 

[Ajayant Tripathi]

What exactly will the consequences be tho? The estimates of SC/ST/OBC/UC/Muslims were already done by the NSSO and available on the public domain. Booth level party workers know these numbers. Even the 2011 caste enumeration exercise (done in parallel with the general census and never released officially) was strategically 'leaked' on the national media. A number of states have conducted similar surveys/censuses since.

Not conducting another 'enumeration exercise' does not do a great job keeping the Pandora's box closed is all I am saying.

I got what you are saying. You mean it doesn't and will not have any effect ,right? You are extrapolating it from leaderji's preference to eschew chaos. I get it what you are saying.

My views are dependent on the fact that a census data point carries a reference and standard value. Its datapoint becomes a factual datapoint. So, yes there will be some turmoil. Other castes will surely rebel against dominant caste in their categories demanding their own fare share. Surveys and samples, or booth wise analysis of electoral roll do not carry that hard factual value like census.

 

[crazywithmath]

I got what you are saying. You mean it doesn't and will not have any effect ,right? You are extrapolating it from leaderji's preference to eschew chaos. I get it what you are saying.

My points;

1. These SC/ST/OBC/UC/Muslim %s are already well known. A survey/census won't reveal stuff that we already do not know about.

2. They do not need a census to breach the 50% ceiling or bring quotas in the private sector. They can already pass a bill and put in on the 9th schedule.

3. The incumbent does not prefer drastic changes and is extremely averse to policies that damage economic/investment outlook - their politics is based on dhandho and dhandho only.

4. Some of the partywallahs and even the RSS leaders have been very clear about their stands in recent years. Even NDA allies like Paswan (who himself leads a caste based party) were saying that they wanted to conduct surveys etc but making their findings public would be 'bad politics' post LS 2024.

Make of it what you will.

 

[Ajayant Tripathi]

My points;

1. These SC/ST/OBC/UC/Muslim %s are already well known. A survey/census won't reveal stuff that we already do not know about.

2. They do not need a census to breach the 50% ceiling or bring quotas in the private sector. They can already pass a bill and put in on the 9th schedule.

3. The incumbent does not prefer drastic changes and is extremely averse to policies that damage economic/investment outlook - their politics is based on dhandho and dhandho only.

4. Some of the partywallahs and even the RSS leaders have been very clear about their stands in recent years. Even leaders Paswan were saying that he wanted to conduct surveys etc but making their findings public would be 'bad politics' post LS 2024.

Make of it what you will.

1. Census is to give it factual status. Not to reveal some surprise. I hope we do not get any surprise.
2. Yes, They can do it. But the idea is to debate it to the death and preferably make ground for subcategorization. Here we all are running our wild fertile imagination wild.
3. Yes, Thats why i limited myself to only census. Yes, I believe Leaderji surely has a plan to move forward without rocking the boat.
4. Yes, They way back had made clear they are not against caste census if need be.

 

[crazywithmath]

1. Census is to give it factual status. Not to reveal some surprise. I hope we do not get any surprise.
2. Yes, They can do it. But the idea is to debate it to the death and preferably make ground for subcategorization. Here we all are running our wild fertile imagination wild.
3. Yes, Thats why i limited myself to only census. Yes, I believe Leaderji surely has a plan to move forward without rocking the boat.
4. Yes, They way back had made clear they are not against caste census if need be.

On point 1, they are already bringing sub categorization in Haryana - no census was conducted to set a precedent. They just formed a comission, made a report and got done with it.

 

[Anants]

View: https://x.com/venom1s/status/1917573519610896574

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GpyW8okWsAAsQb1?format=jpg&name=large

View: https://x.com/abhivatsa/status/1917968499357475296

 

[Jason Roy]

Private sector reservation is never gonna come ever even if RaGa remains the PM for continuous 10 years. Forceful private sector reservation is impossible. UPA govt in its 10 years discussed with all the stakeholders....and came to zero. At the end, they are too funded by corporates....it would be dead kneel for them. In their 2004, 2009 manifestos...they mentioned private sector reservations...... subsequently later and in 2024 too...they didn't mention any private sector reservation....they now talk about a diversity commision which is most likely awarding corporates with subsidizes and tax benifits for diversity hiring and voluntary actions by corporates.They want to increase public sector reservation cuz they see it to be the only option left for them.
This is a article back from 2006...when it was in advanced discussions with corporates which obviously backfired.
It's not all gloom and doom....I do think they understand their limits with a thin line very well.

Aimed at garnering votes, UPA push for reservations in education, private sector jobs

The National Rural Employment Guarantee Bill, the Forests Land for Tribals Bill, the newly-mooted quota in central universities and now, the proposition of jobs for Dalits in the private sector are all aimed at inclusive growth. These all are steps to ramp up vote share to take the Congress...

www.indiatoday.in

 

[Azaad]

View attachment 32717

View attachment 32718

WB govt's Jagannath Temple ad mistakenly mentions 'female vibrators',

An advertisement by the West Bengal.

View attachment 32719

No mistake. Begum patronizes that store.

 

[Azaad]

Only beneficial side effect I can see is the introduction of 'Creamy Layer' to SC/ST and possibly better mapping of EWS for General Caste (maybe even vertical reservation).

The Supreme Court wanted to establish some criteria and empirical evidence for introduction of 'Creamy Layer' to SC/ST.


https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...on-creamy-layer-for-scsts/article69081461.ece

That's the end game. However the BJP will be wary of touching the issue directly. The aim as I see it would be to make public the findings of the caste census once the exercise is completed & let those subordinate sub castes among SCs & STs come up with such demands , preferably move the courts which by the looks of it will favour such a policy.

It also makes for the creation of dedicated vote banks. With courts intervention , the BJP also insulates itself from the backlash of the dominant sub castes in this grouping.

The RSS itself has been rather muted and has been cautious about any kind of statement.



https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...-rss-a-cautious-approach-101746038776720.html

The RSS itself has been trying to call for Hindu unification as early as a week ago (April 20, 2025).

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/rss-chief-calls-for-hindu-community-to-end-caste-differences-one-temple-one-well-one-cremation-ground-101745146651892.html

Bhagwat made the mistake of asking for a sunset clause for reservations just before the Bihar 2015 elections & got singed for it.

It's a question of once bitten twice shy.