Indian Private Defence Sector

I know it's a Dumb Question, but Can't we just buy An-70 design from the Ukrainians like we did with SCE-200
Given that after this war ends Ukrainians would be in need of lot of money and are more likely to sell these designs for quite cheap.
Also it's not like the Ukrainians will be unwilling to sell the design, they were offering the Chinese to buy the design as far back as 2003.

We can acquire these designs, install westerns turbofan engines on it, add Indian Avionics, lengthen the fuselage for a bit and Tada 🎉 we have a IL 76 replacement in our hands.
Infact even the Ukrainians were toying this Idea at some point.
en.wikipedia.org

Antonov An-70 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Also if the Ukrainians are willing we can also do the same thing with An-178
en.m.wikipedia.org

Antonov An-178 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
Last edited:
Pundit Pikachu said:
I know it's a Dumb Question, but Can't we just buy An-70 design from the Ukrainians like we did with SCE-200
Given that after this war ends Ukrainians would be in need of lot of money and are more likely to sell these designs for quite cheap.
Also it's not like the Ukrainians will be unwilling to sell the design, they were offering the Chinese to buy the design as far back as 2003.

We can acquire these designs, install westerns turbofan engines on it, add Indian Avionics, lengthen the fuselage for a bit and Tada 🎉 we have a IL 76 replacement in our hands.
Infact even the Ukrainians were toying this Idea at some point.
en.wikipedia.org

Antonov An-70 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Also if the Ukrainians are willing we can also do the same thing with An-178
en.m.wikipedia.org

Antonov An-178 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
A Basic Thumb of Rule is that if you need that much overhauling of design, then its better to design the plane from scratch. You don't casually add Turbofans to Turboprop/Propfan planes or try to stretch the plane or something. Every minor modification needs the team go back to CFD not considering your proposal which is beyond just minor modifications. If that is the case its better to start from scratch. They should take the Dry Kaveri Core and make it High Bypass Turbofan and it may give around 100 or 120kN for a 4 engine cargo plane roughly equal to a Lockheed C-141 Starlifter(4x90kN) which has some 42 tons payload. Its enough for us to have even 40 tons max payload capability from base to forward operations area since anything beyond 40 tons like Heavy Tank is not useful. Make out a Aerial Tanker also like Stratotanker from same airframe.
 
SlayingHell said:
A Basic Thumb of Rule is that if you need that much overhauling of design, then its better to design the plane from scratch. You don't casually add Turbofans to Turboprop/Propfan planes or try to stretch the plane or something. Every minor modification needs the team go back to CFD not considering your proposal which is beyond just minor modifications. If that is the case its better to start from scratch. They should take the Dry Kaveri Core and make it High Bypass Turbofan and it may give around 100 or 120kN for a 4 engine cargo plane roughly equal to a Lockheed C-141 Starlifter(4x90kN) which has some 42 tons payload. Its enough for us to have even 40 tons max payload capability from base to forward operations area since anything beyond 40 tons like Heavy Tank is not useful. Make out a Aerial Tanker also like Stratotanker from same airframe.
Click to expand...
I recommend you read more about An-70 and it's various proposed variants, specifically the An-77 and An-170

As for that thumb rule of yours, Both Airbus and Boeing seem to have defied it many times over,
Be it with their civilian planes or military ones.

Regarding starting from Scratch (with a kaveri based brand new engine at that), I don't think you understand the gravity of what that means, specially in case of airlifters
 
jaijaganath said:

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1827585218871795788


View: https://x.com/sriramthg/status/1827425512345759801

In today's time when blackpilling and -ve news are very much common and anticipated
I guess we can handle this too
Click to expand...

Yeah no matter how much Pro-Atmanirbhar Iam, I think we have to give some concession to Big Biradher here. Since buying goes two ways. Because you know Big Biradher is the biggest export customer of India's Defense Exports clocking in at 50%. Not counting the huge domestic market there which Indian Small Arms Munitions have been steadily growing. Unlike momentary situationary customers like Armenia or Philippines some other Gulf country where exports are a one time wonder, USA is a steady customer because of sub-components imported from here regularly.
Unlike Uncle Sam's State Department being jerk, their MiC/Defense somewhat were/are proactive in investing or sourcing subcomponents in India. This is in contrast to European Maggots who don't invest a dime. Well regarding Stryker situation my only comforting situation is that even Mighty Japanese are gonna be imported some Finnish Wheeled Combat Vehicle Patria Nemo(Maybe Desi Mentality).
 
SlayingHell said:
Yeah no matter how much Pro-Atmanirbhar Iam, I think we have to give some concession to Big Biradher here. Since buying goes two ways. Because you know Big Biradher is the biggest export customer of India's Defense Exports clocking in at 50%. Not counting the huge domestic market there which Indian Small Arms Munitions have been steadily growing. Unlike momentary situationary customers like Armenia or Philippines some other Gulf country where exports are a one time wonder, USA is a steady customer because of sub-components imported from here regularly.
Unlike Uncle Sam's State Department being jerk, their MiC/Defense somewhat were/are proactive in investing or sourcing subcomponents in India. This is in contrast to European Maggots who don't invest a dime. Well regarding Stryker situation my only comforting situation is that even Mighty Japanese are gonna be imported some Finnish Wheeled Combat Vehicle Patria Nemo(Maybe Desi Mentality).
Click to expand...
Not much of a pro-atmanirbharta seen here, only just bending down and sucking it up
 
jaijaganath said:

View: https://x.com/swasrao/status/1827594915179807052

What nonsense is this
Click to expand...

The whole leadership be it military or political or any-other are at best Low iq, easily bendable or outright traitorous . They have absolutely no ambitions or fire just warming their chair and collecting money in kickbacks or others.
It is us who are fools who think something good might happen amd have expectations.
Our janta doesn’t want it and our leaders are reflection of it.
Even South Korea and Japan both of them vessal state does not bend this much and have spine to stand for what they deem in their interest and here mahamanav while political career being on line by Muricans and their shenanigans still easily giving in in their diktats if u don’t have rulers mentality don’t become ruler in first place.
Might as well stop this modernisation,made in india Jhumla of Indian armed forces .
Might as well concentrate on civil industry only.
 
Suga said:
The whole leadership be it military or political or any-other are at best Low iq, easily bendable or outright traitorous . They have absolutely no ambitions or fire just warming their chair and collecting money in kickbacks or others.
It is us who are fools who think something good might happen amd have expectations.
Our janta doesn’t want it and our leaders are reflection of it.
Even South Korea and Japan both of them vessal state does not bend this much and have spine to stand for what they deem in their interest and here mahamanav while political career being on line by Muricans and their shenanigans still easily giving in in their diktats if u don’t have rulers mentality don’t become ruler in first place.
Might as well stop this modernisation,made in india Jhumla of Indian armed forces .
Might as well concentrate on civil industry only.
Click to expand...
This will discourage people associated with this program like anything coz they had all sort of excuses in other programs but in this case they had none literally none completely made with all QR provided by army
 
Suga said:
The whole leadership be it military or political or any-other are at best Low iq, easily bendable or outright traitorous . They have absolutely no ambitions or fire just warming their chair and collecting money in kickbacks or others.
It is us who are fools who think something good might happen amd have expectations.
Our janta doesn’t want it and our leaders are reflection of it.
Even South Korea and Japan both of them vessal state does not bend this much and have spine to stand for what they deem in their interest and here mahamanav while political career being on line by Muricans and their shenanigans still easily giving in in their diktats if u don’t have rulers mentality don’t become ruler in first place.
Might as well stop this modernisation,made in india Jhumla of Indian armed forces .
Might as well concentrate on civil industry only.
Click to expand...
Boss gunda tax too abhi dena padenga.

Its not about foren maal, its about keeping amreeka happy.

When India rise to level of China than i think India can refuse gunda tax.
 
Guys if you want to blame... blame it on amerikka's arm twisting. Pretty sure there must be something substantial at stake for Govt to take this hit.

On other thread you saw how Chinese operators are trained by US operators training schools. Do you think this happens without US gov nod? If you think so you are quite incredulous. US is running with hares and hunting with hounds. If you looks closely this is exactly what age old EiC policy was in India wrt Independent states in India. US aint ally, aint friend or even partner. The relation is like a transactional relation with Gully Goondas shop. This is another Jalaswa acquisition. Hope we chose an air defence version rather than troop carrier or armored assault version - so that we have some space for Whaps.
 
Anants said:
Guys if you want to blame... blame it on amerikka's arm twisting. Pretty sure there must be something substantial at stake for Govt to take this hit.

On other thread you saw how Chinese operators are trained by US operators training schools. Do you think this happens without US gov nod? If you think so you are quite incredulous. US is running with hares and hunting with hounds. If you looks closely this is exactly what age old EiC policy was in India wrt Independent states in India. US aint ally, aint friend or even partner. The relation is like a transactional relation with Gully Goondas shop. This is another Jalaswa acquisition. Hope we chose an air defence version rather than troop carrier or armored assault version - so that we have some space for Whaps.
Click to expand...
Till when we will keep taking these hits. At least have some spine why sacrifice your own baby steps MIC formation. Meh, nothing make sense in this rasthra. Might as well become full fledged vessel states .

All goverment recently have given so much leeway to muricans. Muricans directly meeting opposition leaders on state level ,influencers etc aur khulawao counslate aur make “friends” out of them .

About china you have to give credits where due Chinese are ready to learn modern (technology,tactics etc ) at whatever cost as any sane & serious country would do,not quota chaap ,social justice ,anti majority joke of country. Where leadership ambition goes as far as kickbacks and sending children to western country.
 
Suga said:
Till when we will keep taking these hits. At least have some spine why sacrifice your own baby steps MIC formation. Meh, nothing make sense in this rasthra. Might as well become full fledged vessel states .
All goverment recently have given so much leeway to muricans. Muricans directly meeting opposition leaders on state level ,influencers etc aur khulawao counslate aur make “friends” out of them .
About china you have to give credits where due Chinese are ready learn modern (technology,tactics etc ) at whatever cost as any sane & serious country would do not quota chaap ,social justice ,anti majority joke of country. Where leadership ambition goes as far as kickbacks and sending children to western country.
Click to expand...
Till you have economic choke points in the hands of unkill. China took similar such hits, infact it still takes when domestic alternative were available. The only difference is China took that opportunity to learn and reverse engineer same products to make their own better .. doing a reverse uno.
 
Anants said:
Till you have economic choke points in the hands of unkill. China took similar such hits, infact it still takes when domestic alternative were available. The only difference is China took that opportunity to learn and reverse engineer same products to make their own better .. doing a reverse uno.
Click to expand...
The problem is both have completely different circumstance.
China is homogeneous IRON controlled by CCP with all its institutions loyal to them Americans couldn’t it infiltrate china even at their weakest ,case in points deng ruthlessly suppressing students uprisings.
On the other hand our electrol dumbocracy and it’s people where traitors ,brown sepoy dimes a dozen, less I say better.
Now these are huge plus points china had which we doesn’t.
 
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